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Any brokers guaranteeing stop loss protection?

  • #61
  • Jun 6, 2009 1:51pm Jun 6, 2009 1:51pm
Quoting blazespinnaker
I trade Oanda and I frequently only see .9 pip round trip on E/U. Any experienced Oanda trader here will attest to the same experience. I've never seen 5 pips for EU on Oanda except during news / weekends. And yes, across news they do suck.

You can see the same thing kind of prices on pure ECN as long as you have min trades above 150K and very significant volume.
I think you need to go and learn about how the market works and how bucketshops quote, then come back and have a sensible discussion based on knowledge instead of naiive supposition. The actual cost of doing business with shops like Oanda isn't just the quoted spreads you see on their platform, they rely on people like you not realizing that.

I'm out of this thread, it's pointless trying to educate people who quite obviously don't want to be educated, not to mention people who think a 5 min chart is a 1 hour chart, and others who think stops should be honored regardless......what is this, amateur hour?
  • #62
  • Jun 6, 2009 1:51pm Jun 6, 2009 1:51pm
Even if I can feel for your disappointment,
During fast movement periods, You can expect such things to happen.
I've had spikes take out good trades before. And I had 4 open long positions,
Close +60 pips over the TP, Just 1 1/2 months ago.
My EA also opened 2 more short position, And close them, All within 5 min.
It happens, Get over it,
Learn from it. And move on.

Spike
Will, Knowledge, Discipline, And tenacity=Success
  • #63
  • Jun 6, 2009 1:55pm Jun 6, 2009 1:55pm
Simple facts:

I open a trade, I am at a .9 pip unrealized loss (9$ on E/U).

I wait ten minutes, the market goes up, I am at 1 pip unrealized gain.

I close the trade.

My balance goes up $10.

I've done this well over 1000 times or so.. Those were all .9 pip round trip.

Oanda does have cost of trades, but those are due to poor execution and slippage which I'm not entirely convinced is fair both ways. They also, I believe, hunt stops and they are terrible during news. There platform can be a tad unstable at times as well.

You know, I think I'm going to put this in my signature on this forum:

Quote
pipmutt: in reality you're probably paying something like 5 pips round turn on Oanda for EUR/USD
  • #64
  • Edited 9:59pm Jun 6, 2009 9:49pm | Edited 9:59pm
Quoting pipmutt
I think you need to go and learn about how the market works and how bucketshops quote, then come back and have a sensible discussion based on knowledge instead of naiive supposition. The actual cost of doing business with shops like Oanda isn't just the quoted spreads you see on their platform, they rely on people like you not realizing that.
I'm out of this thread, it's pointless trying to educate people who quite obviously don't want to be educated, not to mention people who think a 5 min chart is a 1 hour chart, and others who think stops should be honored regardless......what is this, amateur hour?

You're doing the right thing to get out of this thread and may be many other threads too. We need a fair and balanced debate, not one where everyone agrees with you. And we don't need your false education. To be honest I wonder by your posts whose interests you represent? Certainly not the trader's interest!
In any case, some of us here have been trading successfully longer than you think and are not so naive to believe that a 135 pip slippage on a stop loss at FXCM just happened by bad luck or is just a cost of doing business with them in a fast market. FXCM saw the opportunity and grabbed as many pips as they could. It is not an isolated incident with them; there are many reports of this. That's why I moved to another broker where I don't encounter this kind of problem. YES, there are brokers that don't slip you 135 pips on a stop loss !!!
No one said that stops should be honored regardless, but not with this kind of huge slippage!
Finally, I have edited my post where I erroneously stated that the chart posted by FXCM was a 1 hour instead of 5 minutes chart. Still, it does not justify the 135 pips slippage. And you know what, Mr. Pipmutt, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but just don't patronise us any more!
  • #65
  • Jun 7, 2009 4:59am Jun 7, 2009 4:59am
I thought I'd just add my 2 cents here. IF the next tradable price is indeed a big figure away in the wholesale market, then unfortunately, no broker whether he hedges your trades there or on their own books is going to give you a better price. It has however been quite a long time since I've seen anything like that unless it was a pricing error on ebs/reuters. What you have to remember is fx is a fragmented market with most pricing engines using ebs/reuters as a baseline for their prices so a fat finger on the main platforms can cause the entire market to go crazy for a few minutes. Put yourself in a bank's shoes. If you're currently quoting 1.6346/50 on cable and on ebs/reuters you see a offer of 1.6120, you might think it's a bad price but you dont want to take the chance. So you pull all your bids and lower the offers accordingly. If someone at fxcm is long cable and a stop at 1.6320, the best price fxcm can get is down here and there's fair game. The question the trader needs to ask himself is whether he should be using stop mkt or lmt orders. The markets are so jittery these days you could aruge the case for either depending on the scenario. But to the OP of this thread, if his slippage was indeed as large as 135, then I do think fxcm 'massaged' the trade somewhat as offers on currenex, hotspot, lava initilly gapped to around 1.6270 where anyone could have sold around this price for at least 5 seconds. So either the fxcm engine is woefully slow, or they're doing something dodgy
  • #66
  • Jun 7, 2009 5:02am Jun 7, 2009 5:02am
Activtrades has guaranteed stop account. You have to pay a price for it with spread though.

http://www.activtrades.com/index.aspx?page=forex_rra
  • #67
  • Jun 7, 2009 5:19am Jun 7, 2009 5:19am
Quoting PipStar
some of us here have been trading successfully longer than you think....
That's not immediately apparent by the content of some of your posts but whether you're trading successfully or not is irrelevant in this context.


Quoting PipStar
....and are not so naive to believe that a 135 pip slippage on a stop loss at FXCM just happened by bad luck or is just a cost of doing business with them in a fast market.
It has nothing to do with 'bad luck' or the 'cost of doing business', it's to do with liquidity, either the broker's internal liquidity or liquidity in the market. You can't expect an order to be filled at a price at which no-one else is prepared to deal, it will be filled at the next best price at which they are prepared to deal. If price is falling rapidly and traders expect it to continue doing so then why would they want to buy from you, they're in this to make a profit too you know. This is all very basic, not to mention logical, and something even the most inexperienced novice trader would be expected to work out for himself and understand.

Quoting PipStar
I have edited my post where I erroneously stated that the chart posted by FXCM was a 1 hour instead of 5 minutes chart.
I'm all for giving someone the benefit of the doubt and saying it's an easy mistake to make, but come on, mistaking a 5 min chart for a 1 hour chart, twice! Excuse me for being skeptical but it's hardly the hallmark of someone who's been 'trading successfully longer than you think'.


Anyway, I'm not necessarily posting this for your benefit as it seems you prefer to argue rather than learn, but other people read these threads. You are right, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, however nonsense shouldn't go unchallenged in my opinion.
  • #68
  • Jun 7, 2009 5:25am Jun 7, 2009 5:25am
Quoting sccz97
But to the OP of this thread, if his slippage was indeed as large as 135, then I do think fxcm 'massaged' the trade somewhat as offers on currenex, hotspot, lava initilly gapped to around 1.6270 where anyone could have sold around this price for at least 5 seconds. So either the fxcm engine is woefully slow, or they're doing something dodgy
Good post.

I think the OP was trading micro and this is more likely to be an internal liquidity issue, I could be wrong, that's just the impression I got.
  • #69
  • Jun 7, 2009 8:21am Jun 7, 2009 8:21am
Quoting pipmutt
I'm all for giving someone the benefit of the doubt and saying it's an easy mistake to make, but come on, mistaking a 5 min chart for a 1 hour chart, twice! Excuse me for being skeptical but it's hardly the hallmark of someone who's been 'trading successfully longer than you think'.
Really, you think that I spent much time studying that chart. My mistake on the timeframe was posted once but stated twice on the same line. Does it really matter? I maintain that this chart is no proof that a 135 pips slippage should have occured. It was posted just for the sake of creating a bit of melodrama. It's not my money that's been lost so it doesn't bother me but you can see it's just not right. And for you to say that the thread starter should just take it on the chin and move on shows that it's not your money either and therefore you don't care. If anything, fxbillie should request from fxcm their log files so that he can see whether his trades were closed at the next best available price !

Quote
Anyway, I'm not necessarily posting this for your benefit as it seems you prefer to argue rather than learn, but other people read these threads. You are right, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, however nonsense shouldn't go unchallenged in my opinion.

I am not here to argue nor do I want to learn from your broker assisted opinions. What I know from trading is already enough for me to make a living. You should take a look at how you come across in your posts as some of us may not feel comfortable with your patronising ways. Anyway, best of luck in your trading.
  • #70
  • Jun 7, 2009 8:32am Jun 7, 2009 8:32am
Quoting PipStar
Really, you think that I spent much time studying that chart. My mistake on the timeframe was posted once but stated twice on the same line. Does it really matter? I maintain that this chart is no proof that a 135 pips slippage should have occured. It was posted just for the sake of creating a bit of melodrama. It's not my money that's been lost so it doesn't bother me but you can see it's just not right. And for you to say that the thread starter should just take it on the chin and move on shows that it's not your money either and therefore you don't care. If anything, fxbillie should request from fxcm their log files so that he can see whether his trades were closed at the next best available price !

I am not here to argue nor do I want to learn from your broker assisted opinions. What I know from trading is already enough for me to make a living. You should take a look at how you come across in your posts as some of us may not feel comfortable with your patronising ways. Anyway, best of luck in your trading.

You missed the relevant part of my post altogether (pasted below), was that because you didn't understand it or just that you couldn't argue with it?


It has nothing to do with 'bad luck' or the 'cost of doing business', it's to do with liquidity, either the broker's internal liquidity or liquidity in the market. You can't expect an order to be filled at a price at which no-one else is prepared to deal, it will be filled at the next best price at which they are prepared to deal. If price is falling rapidly and traders expect it to continue doing so then why would they want to buy from you, they're in this to make a profit too you know. This is all very basic, not to mention logical, and something even the most inexperienced novice trader would be expected to work out for himself and understand.
  • #71
  • Jun 7, 2009 8:51am Jun 7, 2009 8:51am
Quoting pipmutt
You missed the relevant part of my post altogether (pasted below), was that because you didn't understand it or just that you couldn't argue with it?


It has nothing to do with 'bad luck' or the 'cost of doing business', it's to do with liquidity, either the broker's internal liquidity or liquidity in the market. You can't expect an order to be filled at a price at which no-one else is prepared to deal, it will be filled at the next best price at which they are prepared to deal. If price is falling rapidly and traders expect...
If that was my trade, I would ask for proof from FXCM that my stop loss was executed at the next best available price. Not a 5 minute chart. Hopefully I got this timeframe right this time as I know you are quite sensitive to this. A log of available prices at the time the stop loss price was reached for example!
  • #72
  • Jun 7, 2009 9:59am Jun 7, 2009 9:59am
Quoting PipStar
If that was my trade, I would ask for proof from FXCM that my stop loss was executed at the next best available price. Not a 5 minute chart. Hopefully I got this timeframe right this time as I know you are quite sensitive to this. A log of available prices at the time the stop loss price was reached for example!
After taking them up on their offer to investigate the issue in this post, and if the response was unacceptable, then requesting some sort of confirmation would seem like a reasonable thing to do and certainly better than jumping to conclusions and unfounded conspiracy theories (in fact giving the OP credit he's been quite restrained, unlike this guy!). Whether he gets it or not is another matter, it would mean them divulging all sorts of information and I don't think there's any legal or contractual obligation for them to provide it as far as I know.

I've found that if these things are dealt with in a business-like fashion then they're usually resolved amicably, perhaps if he's a long-standing client they may offer him a partial refund as a goodwill gesture.

As regards me being sensitive to things like chart timeframes, yes you're right I am, they're an important tool of my trade and reading them becomes second nature after a while. You know, things like 12 5-minute candles in an hour, 24 hourly candles in a day, things like that

Seriously though, whatever the outcome of this particular issue I think it's important for people to understand what can happen as a result of market volatility and the risks they run, forewarned is forearmed so to speak, then it doesn't come as so much of a shock if the worst does happen unexpectedly.
  • #73
  • Jun 7, 2009 10:19am Jun 7, 2009 10:19am
Quoting pipmutt
After taking them up on their offer to investigate the issue in this post, and if the response was unacceptable, then requesting some sort of confirmation would seem like a reasonable thing to do and certainly better than jumping to conclusions and unfounded conspiracy theories (in fact giving the OP credit he's been quite restrained, unlike this guy!). Whether he gets it or not is another matter, it would mean them divulging all sorts of information and I don't think there's any legal or contractual obligation for them to provide it as far as I know.

I've found that if these things are dealt with in a business-like fashion then they're usually resolved amicably, perhaps if he's a long-standing client they may offer him a partial refund as a goodwill gesture.

As regards me being sensitive to things like chart timeframes, yes you're right I am, they're an important tool of my trade and reading them becomes second nature after a while. You know, things like 12 5-minute candles in an hour, 24 hourly candles in a day, things like that

Seriously though, whatever the outcome of this particular issue I think it's important for people to understand what can happen as a result of market volatility and the risks they run, forewarned is forearmed so to speak, then it doesn't come as so much of a shock if the worst does happen unexpectedly.
Good post

We cant go in and bat for fxbillie but I think at least a goodwill gesture from FXCM in his case would go a long way.
  • #74
  • Jun 7, 2009 10:39am Jun 7, 2009 10:39am
Quoting PipStar

We cant go in and bat for fxbillie but I think at least a goodwill gesture from FXCM in his case would go a long way.
I couldn't agree more!

He sounds like a reasonable guy and seems more sad that he's been let down rather than angry about it, and even despite this happening he still says FXCM have been good to him in the past. Loyal customers like that are hard to come by and worth hanging on to in my opinion, a few dollars could make a world of difference.

Mind you I'm a bit of soft touch, if I ran a brokerage I'd probably go bust in a week, I'd be refunding everyone's losses lol
  • #75
  • Jun 7, 2009 12:13pm Jun 7, 2009 12:13pm
If he had a micro account with FXCM, I could see this happening.
My first Forex account was with FXCM. And when you
went to close an order,It would be slow sometimes. Needing a re quote.
Also harder to get assistance(email question in,instead of one on one).
The micro accounts, Didn't exactly get the best attention.
But this was a few years ago. Maybe it's better now.

Spike
Will, Knowledge, Discipline, And tenacity=Success
  • #76
  • Jun 7, 2009 1:50pm Jun 7, 2009 1:50pm
As previously said, it's a chance you take holding over big news and you don't get bigger than NFP for some reason.

I'd say don't hold over news, but 50/50 chance the news will move it your direction so IF your SL Works or near enough then your upside is potentially more than your down side, the risk being your SL fails like this.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #77
  • Jun 21, 2009 10:02pm Jun 21, 2009 10:02pm
I am closing my account on FXCM.... Last Friday it happened to me!!! 52 pips above my Stop Loss Price... and there was not News Released!!!... I don't like this... This never happened to me with my previous Broker (I Trade FX)... I don't like this.... this has happened to me twice last week, The other time I closed my position manually when I was in 40 pips of profit... and the position doesn't closed until several MINUTES after and only with 4 pips of profit and also there were not news released!...

But Last Friday happened again, my Stop Loss was delayed for several MINUTES, not seconds... at least 2 or 3 minutes until it got closed... 52 pips above my Stop Loss Price....

I can not trust FXCM, anymore... just workede with them about 1 month and I am really dissapointed!
  • #78
  • Jun 21, 2009 10:29pm Jun 21, 2009 10:29pm
Quoting GuateForex
I am closing my account on FXCM.... Last Friday it happened to me!!! 52 pips above my Stop Loss Price... and there was not News Released!!!... I don't like this... This never happened to me with my previous Broker (I Trade FX)... I don't like this.... this has happened to me twice last week,...
I havn't Been there 2 years now-seems some habits cant be kicked? My beef was platform freezes. Of course at the worst times-lol.
FF = Forex Faggots
  • #79
  • Jun 22, 2009 1:13am Jun 22, 2009 1:13am
Quoting GuateForex
I am closing my account on FXCM.... Last Friday it happened to me!!! 52 pips above my Stop Loss Price... and there was not News Released!!!... I don't like this... This never happened to me with my previous Broker (I Trade FX)... I don't like this.... this has happened to me twice last week,...
What time was it exactly and what pair(s) did these events occur on? I'd love to look them up against other feeds.
  • #80
  • Edited 11:03am Jun 22, 2009 9:49am | Edited 11:03am
Quoting blazespinnaker
What time was it exactly and what pair(s) did these events occur on? I'd love to look them up against other feeds.
This are the details of the trade... the original SL Value that I put when I entered the order was 1.6479

Currency: GBP/USD
Open Hour: 09:59:25 (06/19/2009) - Ny's Time
Bad Executed Close Hour: 11:55:53 (06/19/2009) - Ny's Time
Open: Sell at 1.64065
Closed: 1.65376

As you see a difference of 58 pips from my Original Stop Loss Value. The order took between 2-5 minutes to get executed!!!

I follow a Signal service with a group of people, and I was the only one to get this bad execution... The other people of the group got their stop Loss order executed at 1.6479 by their brokers (other than FXCM)

This problem happened NON during any news release!!!
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