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Why did you start trading and what do you expect from it? 19 replies

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Trade what you see NOT what you expect

  • #13,401
  • May 27, 2009 1:15pm May 27, 2009 1:15pm
Quoting KENNETH lEE
No not me... I have it on the E/J as a sma and it is spot on.. on cable tried both and can't get it to equal.. As long as it's close . good to just give us a heads up that it's approaching.

I have been scalping the heck out of both them.. only problem is I am leaving more on the table than I am taking. Hope someone else is batting cleanup.. If Pippin was here I know he would get them all.
I have been occupied the last few hours so I left a few for you.
  • #13,402
  • May 27, 2009 1:20pm May 27, 2009 1:20pm
Here were some entries off the cable and we just had a retest off the 10 ema .
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 1b Misc GBP.JPG Size: 123 KB
Good Trading To All ; Ken Lee
  • #13,403
  • May 27, 2009 1:21pm May 27, 2009 1:21pm
Quoting PippiNole
I have been occupied the last few hours so I left a few for you.

Thanks pal... I took a few ..
Good Trading To All ; Ken Lee
  • #13,404
  • May 27, 2009 2:26pm May 27, 2009 2:26pm
Quoting KENNETH lEE
Here were some entries off the cable and we just had a retest off the 10 ema .
Ken:
I'll admit to being guilty of not reading and comprehending everything this lengthy thread has to offer, so pardon my ignorance:

regarding the scalps on your chart.... do I enter once (or as soon as) the candle has touched the MA? in other words, I'm confused between some of the lessons EO gives about waiting until one candle closes before an entry is confirmed or attempted, but in scalping, I guess there are different rules applied... from what I understand of this chart, it looks as though an entry is performed once a supporting or resisting MA is touched, and then the trade is ridden to the opposing MA? Thanks for your patience in advance.

Ez
  • #13,405
  • May 27, 2009 2:58pm May 27, 2009 2:58pm
Ladies and Gentlemen! I hope all is well with everyone, I've been busy as all get out at the office and my office has to come first. I'm still trading, still making my pips, but I'm taken away from posting like I want to. Once my office slows back down and everything is caught up here, I'll be back to posting as usual. I know many of you have been making the pips and I've also seen a lot of side shooter calls. I want everyone to remember the foundation of this system for trading. It's not rocket science, but without a solid foundation, you're going to continue to make the same sidewinder calls and wonder where the hell did all my money go. About 3 weeks ago, some egg head, made a comment on the thread that this system is nothing more than pins and hammers, if that is what you believe, then please leave, this is not for you. Pins and hammers are a part of this system, but it goes much deeper than that and falls back to the foundation. For now, I'm going to leave it at this, and I welcome anyone to share what they believe the foundation of this system is.

Trade well!
EO
Just digging in the trenches like everyone else!
  • #13,406
  • May 27, 2009 3:45pm May 27, 2009 3:45pm
Quoting eohater
Pins and hammers are a part of this system, but it goes much deeper than that and falls back to the foundation. For now, I'm going to leave it at this, and I welcome anyone to share what they believe the foundation of this system is.

Trade well!
EO
Hello EO, good to hear from you again.

It is funny you should remark on foundation, as I am reading and trying to learn and keep up with the rest of you, I cannot help but disect and try to figure out where I am going to gain my basis of understanding for this method, so that I am not asking what may seem like overly obvious questions. As I began learning something other than with candle charting, I believe that what I still need to learn to bring myself up to a level of competence deserving this system (or my interpretation of it's foundation) is this:

First and foremost, I need a solid footing in the technique of candle charting. You make many references to what a group of candles together means to you....to someone on the outside looking in, they might equate it to reading tea leaves, but there is a logic behind what the price action and formation of this grouping tells you. the MA's become frosting on the cake once you can read that group and understand it's implications to price movement.

Second, the MA's have evolved over your theories and trials of many trades to form a 'system of high probability trades'. Since everyone on this earth trading different systems are impacting the movement of the market, nothing is 100% effective, but every indicator has merit, and only a structured compilation of indicators and the specific way they are read can begin to form a "system" that has an action in mind to perform once the criteria are met. Anything left to chance, or loose interpretation, are not part of the system, and not to be considered if the system is to work effectively. I give credit to Turtle, in a recent post, where he made mention of trading nothing more than the 35/50 ma's, until he becomes familiar with the setup.....there is so much information in this thread, his approach will be the one I take once I have enough understanding of charting to be "dangerous" (lol)

Third: Patience to allow the trade to come to you, not chase the pair and try to force it into submission. As you state early on, if you don't have any patience, GET IT.

Fourth: and I state the obvious once more: Money Management.
No amount of good trades will make you money if you don't follow a method of account protection. Although it varies on the individual trade and proposed outcome, NO trade should be entered without "wearing a raincoat", so to speak

I believe you have put together a very comprehensive assortment of actions associated with candle movement, where it creates many opportunities to enter the market with relative confidence to a higher probability of making money, rather than "taking a stab at it" as many of us learn only too soon just makes us another "statistic".

Thanks for your concern as to the integrity of this thread, and to our welfare in learning from it.

Ez
  • #13,407
  • May 27, 2009 5:08pm May 27, 2009 5:08pm
The overall goal of this thread is to learn to trade using PRICE ACTION... The PINS and HAMMERS and HANGMEN and SHOOTING STARS and The SUCH.. Are just a hint to a possible trade. Just like today we where discusing a hammer and wondering why it didn't workout. We might not have done justice with the answer but it is this conitinuing dilague back and forth which will help us to learn the price action and show us the ones that would have a higher chance to succeed. Never will they all workout but the success to failure rate is very much in our favor.

Some of the best trading ideas here do not use any candle pattern. The 35/50 cross or the 62 1 hr. ema touch, the 5 and 1 oclock trades.But even with these without a basic idea to how price got there and it's location corresponding to the ma's and past price. Have a chance at failure.

I have always believed in my trading and have done with limited success ( my worst enemy conitnues to be me) that a person could be succesfull trading a bare chart without any indicators. I am sure that there are people on here that could make the same sucessfull trades without the ma's . Because someone had to know how to trade before they realized the ma's were a asset. They again are providing a signal to a possiblity but without the foundation of Price Action. We are still gambling maybe not at as high a risk as we where before but still gambling.

Because without the true understanding of the flow of the price can we ever feel we have a real idea to where it flows next. Not a expectation but a true understanding like reading a river that all these signs tell us it is fast and shallow here and slow and deep there. That doesn't mean it can't bust the banks and flood the town from time to time.

I also would like to say that I probablly put forth to much of my own ideas into my post and will endeavour to curtail my opinoins. I like all of you are trying to absorp the wonderfull information given so freelly here, I just want to give back as well. But maybe my ranting leaves more confusion than actually helps..

So let us all learn and move forward together... Best Trading To All Ken
Good Trading To All ; Ken Lee
  • #13,408
  • May 27, 2009 5:28pm May 27, 2009 5:28pm
Sorry had another chapter in me..

If we think that all we are trading is a select few patterns. Then why is it we are entering down the wick of those pins. We are entering off Price Action. As was metioned somewhere today and all the candle trading text books say it wait for confirmation to enter. Our confirmation is the price action then taken with our indicator we build the trade.

One of the hardest things I know it was for me was to look to the left at previus areas especially the other charts . We get caught up in trading our little 15 minute chart. When the higher time charts hold so much information..

sorry I am done.... Ken
Good Trading To All ; Ken Lee
  • #13,409
  • May 27, 2009 6:45pm May 27, 2009 6:45pm
Quoting EzRidr62
Ken:
I'll admit to being guilty of not reading and comprehending everything this lengthy thread has to offer, so pardon my ignorance:

regarding the scalps on your chart.... do I enter once (or as soon as) the candle has touched the MA? in other words, I'm confused between some of the lessons EO gives about waiting until one candle closes before an entry is confirmed or attempted, but in scalping, I guess there are different rules applied... from what I understand of this chart, it looks as though an entry is performed once a supporting or resisting...
EZ this is probablly some of the trades EO is talking about as they don't fall into any of the stuff on this thread .. I just tend to use the MA's as S/R and sometimes trade them as such. Bounces and breakout re-test..

But in all fairness to the thread. Look back and study the 1 and 5 oclock trades those are our preffered consolidation trading method. Which the E/J gave up almost all day long and the gbp did this afternoon.

Have a nice evening.. take care Ken
Good Trading To All ; Ken Lee
  • #13,410
  • May 27, 2009 7:12pm May 27, 2009 7:12pm
What a day! I saw: pin was forming on EJ 15M;
61.8% rejection, 35/50 cross/reverse;
and candle closed right at 50%.


So, did I short it? No!
This f..king chart crashed! When I got it back, it's already down.
  • #13,411
  • May 27, 2009 7:20pm May 27, 2009 7:20pm
Quoting Komissar
What a day! I saw: pin was forming on EJ 15M;
61.8% rejection, 35/50 cross/reverse;
and candle closed right at 50%.


So, did I short it? No!
This f..king chart crashed! When I got it back, it's already down.

Sorry to here that. Some of my best trades are when the computer crashes . Then I can't close them to early LOL..

Don't worry always another one around the bend.
Good Trading To All ; Ken Lee
  • #13,412
  • May 27, 2009 7:24pm May 27, 2009 7:24pm
Quoting KENNETH lEE
Sorry to here that. Some of my best trades are when the computer crashes . Then I can't close them to early LOL..

Don't worry always another one around the bend.
I understand that. I know another trade is around the corner,
but this one was so obvious...
From another hand, while I was typing EJ jumped up.
Hm? Would it be good to short it from 35/50 cross/reverse?
  • #13,413
  • May 27, 2009 7:29pm May 27, 2009 7:29pm
Quoting Komissar
I understand that. I know another trade is around the corner,
but this one was so obvious...
From another hand, while I was typing EJ jumped up.
Hm? Would it be good to short it from 35/50 cross/reverse?

I would be carefull it has corssed twice now and bounced down 15 pips off the 62 eam 1 hr.. I tried to take it short earlieer off the 10 and 21 ema barelly got out alive.. I am sure pippin is long from the bottom. I am waitng maybe a retest of the 50 ema . But might need to break above the 62,, so beware I am flat
Good Trading To All ; Ken Lee
  • #13,414
  • May 27, 2009 7:36pm May 27, 2009 7:36pm
Quoting KENNETH lEE
I would be carefull it has corssed twice now and bounced down 15 pips off the 62 eam 1 hr.. I tried to take it short earlieer off the 10 and 21 ema barelly got out alive.. I am sure pippin is long from the bottom. I am waitng maybe a retest of the 50 ema . But might need to break above the 62,, so beware I am flat
Thanks for advise, Ken
I saw how she went over that pin, so I stayed flat too.
When she got the same wick as previous candle, it would be good to long EJ, bounce off 21ma, but I didn't.

I am still wondering how Pippin, Infinity and others picked the price on the edge of candle. I wish I knew this kind of magic.
  • #13,415
  • May 27, 2009 7:40pm May 27, 2009 7:40pm
Quoting Komissar
Thanks for advise, Ken
I saw how she went over that pin, so I stayed flat too.
When she got the same wick as previous candle, it would be good to long EJ, bounce off 21ma, but I didn't.

I am still wondering how Pippin, Infinity and others picked the price on the edge of candle. I wish I knew this kind of magic.
If you look at your E/J 1 hr chart the previous swing was 131.46 , Price on the 15 minute stalled at 131.69 . tested it twice the second test was a hangman. so price was rejected they take the long. But pippin never leaves his computer..

of course with EO and infinty the stop would be 20 or 30 below the 131.46 .. I believe..
Good Trading To All ; Ken Lee
  • #13,416
  • May 27, 2009 7:48pm May 27, 2009 7:48pm
Quoting KENNETH lEE
If you look at your E/J 1 hr chart the previous swing was 131.46 , Price on the 15 minute stalled at 131.69 . tested it twice the second test was a hangman. so price was rejected they take the long. But pippin never leaves his computer..


of course with EO and infinty the stop would be 20 or 30 below the 131.46 .. I believe..
Pretty good analysis Ken except for one thing, I do have a nature call occasionally.
  • #13,417
  • May 27, 2009 7:50pm May 27, 2009 7:50pm
Quoting PippiNole
Pretty good analysis Ken except for one thing, I do have a nature call occasionally.
You haven't gotten that monitor installed in the head yet.?
Good Trading To All ; Ken Lee
  • #13,418
  • May 27, 2009 7:56pm May 27, 2009 7:56pm
Quoting KENNETH lEE
You haven't gotten that monitor installed in the head yet.?
I'm not sure the wife will go for that.
  • #13,419
  • May 27, 2009 8:00pm May 27, 2009 8:00pm
Quoting PippiNole
I'm not sure the wife will go for that.
"and then, God created laptops"
  • #13,420
  • May 27, 2009 8:02pm May 27, 2009 8:02pm
EJ made a 61% retrace of todays move.
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