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Where can I learn more about Price Action like those in James16 charts? 9 replies

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james16 Chart Thread

  • #29,581
  • May 10, 2009 1:41pm May 10, 2009 1:41pm
Awesome post. Poker is way different with play money. I didnt learn on demo because 7 years ago it was just not something as prevelant or told to me to do. But for those that think real money is better i cant say it isnt. You should be on a very very small account to have real trade conditions. If you cant trade on demo and beat your ego there what makes you think you can on a real account(thanks fiji)

The steps james outlned serve a strong purpose and i highly recommend everyone follow them. Those of you thinking about it start today and make this the first day of really treating this like a business

Happy mothers day to all you moms out there we wouldnt be here without you all

Mike

Currently letting mom shop on my tab man women like to shop
Quoting Meum
Although I won't disagree with your major premise here (this seems to be that you don't react the same to wins and losses on a demo account) I want to engage your poker analogy since this is one I have thought about a fair bit....
  • #29,582
  • May 10, 2009 3:16pm May 10, 2009 3:16pm
Quoting Jigsaw
just I am not back testing for obvious reasons.
Back testing is and will be, after the fact, a chart will never ever repeat itself.



I respectfully disagree, same stuff happens over and over, everything repeats itself. Price can either only go up or down.

Backtesting is not perfect, but it can really help with regards analysis and experience.

When I backtested the stuff I became way better way quicker, it allowed me to understand about space, nose length, importance of confluence etc.

You may be of the opinion "Thats useless its...

Might be a good investment, still I like better to put the 150,00 in a Micro account and trade the markest with real money.

I just do not like to learn driving on an simulator I like a real car to manoever through town town.
Nothing can beat reality!
But like I said that me, this is not a recommandation.
  • #29,583
  • May 10, 2009 3:19pm May 10, 2009 3:19pm
Quoting mbqb11


Mike

Currently letting mom shop on my tab man women like to shop

NO KIDDING
  • #29,584
  • May 10, 2009 3:24pm May 10, 2009 3:24pm
Quoting mea
Might be a good investment, still I like better to put the 150,00 in a Micro account and trade the markest with real money.

I just do not like to learn driving on an simulator I like a real car to manoever through town town.
Nothing can beat reality!
But like I said that me, this is not a recommandation.
It is true that nothing can beat reality. But it does not cost anything to do three months demo trading and therefore it is a no lose situation.
  • #29,585
  • May 10, 2009 3:32pm May 10, 2009 3:32pm
Quoting markmm
I The only disappointing thing is we don't get to see what the guys look like, always wondered that .
Actually you do. Check out the "Let's see those faces, don't be shy" thread. Plenty of pictures of Mike and his drinking buddies.... And a couple of Jim....boy that guy has some serious musculature. He power lifted for many years I think.

It's one of my favourite threads on the PF.
  • #29,586
  • Edited 4:01pm May 10, 2009 3:42pm | Edited 4:01pm
Quoting mea
Back testing is and will be, after the fact, a chart will never ever repeat itself.
also looking at old charts makes it so easy, everything is in front off you so my judgment would be bias.
I am also not using demo, because it takes away real time emotions and the greed / fear effect

and judgement on demos are just not real, that's why one calls it demo.
Some people trade a micro account instead of demo because it gives them a feel for the live market. But if demo doesn't give you real time emtions then I guess neither will losing cents a trade.

Each will follow his own path, and between everyone on this thread, there's very little that hasn't been tried.

I would respectfully say that treating a demo like a live account is a challenge to the psychology and discipline in itself. It's part of the process of taming the ego.

Also, I would respectfully disagree with your statement about a chart never ever repeating itself. The foundation of all technical analysis is that there are patterns in the market that repeat themselves with the same results. That is what we do here in this thread. Pinbars, bullish outside bars, inside bars...all the formations.....we are looking for trading scenarios that over time have proved to be reliable tip offs as to where price will go. Otherwise, if a chart never repeats itself, then just what are we basing our decision to enter the market on? If you are on this thread and looking for pin bars then you are looking for a pattern that repeats itself.

Just some food for thought. Everyone of course is entitled to do it their own way and one thing I have seen in my short time watching this world of trading is that there are so many paths to success. I wish you all the best on yours....
  • #29,587
  • May 10, 2009 3:56pm May 10, 2009 3:56pm
Quoting Jlr
Interesting 3 day PB. Good location, good pin size, with the overall trend. Break would be .9600 area, a PPZ area in itself. Some minor PPZ beyond break, but nothing major I see. Seems pretty good, anything I'm missing?

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I surely wouldn't know if you're missing anything but I had a look at the weekly (since I aint gots no 3 day) and here is my take on it. Could the 1.0000 have some attraction for price? This level seems to have been a major issue for this pair historically.
M
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  • #29,588
  • May 10, 2009 4:57pm May 10, 2009 4:57pm
Quoting TiaForex
Actually you do. Check out the "Let's see those faces, don't be shy" thread. Plenty of pictures of Mike and his drinking buddies.... And a couple of Jim....boy that guy has some serious musculature. He power lifted for many years I think.

It's one of my favourite threads on the PF.
Excellent, just had a look, funny putting faces to the voices/text. Will put my mug up there tonight.

Mark
Economists have forecast 9 out of the last 5 recessions
  • #29,589
  • May 10, 2009 5:47pm May 10, 2009 5:47pm
Quoting markmm
Excellent, just had a look, funny putting faces to the voices/text. Will put my mug up there tonight.

Mark
I agree, I jut found that thread on Friday. That was very enjoyable. It is really cool to see everyone from all over the world.
"Luck favors the prepared mind"
  • #29,590
  • May 10, 2009 9:47pm May 10, 2009 9:47pm
Quoting jpa0827
I agree, I jut found that thread on Friday. That was very enjoyable. It is really cool to see everyone from all over the world.
I couldnt find the thread, but then again im not sure if I want to see what everyone looks like
  • #29,591
  • May 10, 2009 10:20pm May 10, 2009 10:20pm
Quoting g_j_hook@yah
hi jarroo, i should also still be in the eu/yen but i cant seem to keep them open longer term!!?? what has been your management untill now? do you only moves your stops at the end of the day, or go to smaller TFs ?
cheers
jon
I have small partial positions from all three PBs on each pair. (Cad, Eur/Jpy and Aud/Jpy). I take a long term mind set when I hold my last postiton. Meaning I tend to leave this position at break even until I'm stopped out or when a PPZ level on the Weekly or Daily shows a clear sign of strength for me to hide behind. The mind set requires you to endure huge pip swings of 200 to 400 pips or more. Bottom line is that you don't lose money.

Take the Cad. 75/80% of my position was banked at the obvious profit Targets in green. My current stop loss for my last position is above the 1.2000, you can see how it is strengthed by the Weekly 61.8 fib. I will probably move it down to the 1.750 this week since there was no clear Bullish PA on the Weekly.
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Indicators show the past. Price Action "Indicates" the future.
  • #29,592
  • May 10, 2009 10:38pm May 10, 2009 10:38pm
Quoting adam777
Quick question to Jarroo and others:

Once price hits our initial 30pip target and we sell the first half, do we instantly need to put our BE stop in place?

A) WITH NORMAL ORDERS ON MT4: The only way I see that is say: buy 2 microlots 10 pips above the pin, SL(1) @ -30pips, TP(1) @ +30pips. Once the TP(1) hit sell both lots, AND buy 1 microlot at that price with a new SL(2) @ BE, THEN trail the SL.

B) WITH AN EA: I believe the swiss army EA from forex-tsd could automate it so as to only sell one microlot...
A)The 30 pip target is not written in stone. It depends on the quality PA setup and the amount of confluences that support it. Also, the space for which profit tagets can be reach and so on. But the idea you have is correct, once a hard break gives you a fair amount a pips I will move to break even quickly.

B)To be honest, I don't use EAs. Probably because I don't know how to use them or how they work. lol

Jim
Indicators show the past. Price Action "Indicates" the future.
  • #29,593
  • May 10, 2009 10:51pm May 10, 2009 10:51pm
Quoting james16
yes and it always will.

coming to the realization that a certain percentage of those 30 pip moves where i moved my stop to breakeven will shoot off to 200 pips BEFORE stopping me out at breakeven.


I have jumped off that very same cliff more than any of you and the 50th jump is no different than the 1st.

Step away from the cliff, turn around and take the other road please.

Jim
I never get tired of these posts, Jim. And I know many, many others love them too.
Indicators show the past. Price Action "Indicates" the future.
  • #29,594
  • May 10, 2009 10:59pm May 10, 2009 10:59pm
Hi Jlr,

CAD/CHF actually formed a Pin on the weekly as well. I like this one better. It needs to break 0.9540 I think on that timeframe. I've never traded this pair but I really like this pin...its nose is protruding above the resistance so if it breaks I think it might be fast. However the congestion below might not make for a great target. I'm looking at 0.9363 as a first target.

Rubin.

Quoting Jlr
Interesting 3 day PB. Good location, good pin size, with the overall trend. Break would be .9600 area, a PPZ area in itself. Some minor PPZ beyond break, but nothing major I see. Seems pretty good, anything I'm missing?

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  • #29,595
  • May 10, 2009 11:01pm May 10, 2009 11:01pm
Quoting TiaForex
, when that pin is breached (or any other quality PA setup for that matter), price often shoots off hard. The breach is the rocket fuel. If you play before the breach the low of the pin can act as resistance and actually block your trade.


Apologies if it got a little rant-y.....
Keep ranting away brother.

Man . . . you nailed that description perfectly.
Indicators show the past. Price Action "Indicates" the future.
  • #29,596
  • May 10, 2009 11:03pm May 10, 2009 11:03pm
Hey Tia,

Can you post a link to that thread? I did a search in FF and couldn't find it..

Thanks,
Rubin.

Quoting TiaForex
Actually you do. Check out the "Let's see those faces, don't be shy" thread. Plenty of pictures of Mike and his drinking buddies.... And a couple of Jim....boy that guy has some serious musculature. He power lifted for many years I think.

It's one of my favourite threads on the PF.
  • #29,597
  • May 10, 2009 11:13pm May 10, 2009 11:13pm
Quoting mbqb11
As much as it ticks people off to hear it trading the way we do it here is rather simple after some time the rest is getting out of your own way.

Thanks for all the other responses i enjoyed reading them all.

Mike

It also applies to Life as well.

Nice one Mike.
Indicators show the past. Price Action "Indicates" the future.
  • #29,598
  • May 10, 2009 11:16pm May 10, 2009 11:16pm
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I was thinking about B/E at the first line beyond the break, and the other 2 levels being the profit targets. Gets a bit choppy in that area, so I don't really want to take a loss, if it does reach there. Should be interesting to watch, just a demo trade for me.

In response to Meum, I think your chart is interesting, and it does lead me to believe that it will eventually be retesting 100. Right now I see price failing at .9700 PPZ, and forming a nice pinbar, leaving me to believe we will see .9150 before we see 1.00. Hmm
  • #29,599
  • Edited 1:37am May 11, 2009 12:23am | Edited 1:37am
Quote
Back testing is and will be, after the fact, a chart will never ever repeat itself.
also looking at old charts makes it so easy, everything is in front off you so my judgment would be bias.
I am also not using demo, because it takes away real time emotions and the greed / fear effect
and judgement on demos are just not real, that's why one calls it demo.
Demo can't beat Real Money experience and there are lots of traders which agree with me on that.
Quote
I just do not like to learn driving on an simulator I like a real car to manoever through town town.
Nothing can beat reality!
mea,
This is very important, so if i may, I would like to address this issue for you & specially for other trader's sake. This is, i believe a misconception or what u can call a "norm"(generally accepted fact or idea).

I would like to add an affirmation to what Jigsaw, Meum, mbqb11, fxprocessor, TiaForex have said about 12-13hours ago.
i sincerely & respectfully disagree (with your statements above), but to me & "some" others it's as clear as the sun shining:
History does repeat itself (have people forgotten already of the very very recent GREED & MISINFORMATION-LED MORTGAGE CRISIS ), &
demo can (& should) "feel" like a real account.

with regards to price charts recurring time & time again, u can go look at ANY chart (we all just have to open our eyes & be very observant), be it 1minute, 1hour, daily etc ---- certain price patterns do recur. IF IT DOES NOT, traders will not attain a certain consistency in trading (traders WAIT for CERTAIN signals/price patterns to occur before taking a trade or exiting it). One very prominent example is what Sir james16 is teaching us here.

From a trading, sports, music perspective, Demo (or "Practice" in non-trading terms), DEFINITELY can, should, & must feel like Real/Live.
I'll give several examples, for every1 concerned to be able to grasp this concept:
In taekwondo or other martial arts, we call demo as "sparring sessions". 2 sparring partners will practice/slug it out for a certain amount of time: both will be kicked in different places of the body... it IS a Sparring session (DEMO) but u'll DEFINITELY feel the pain. anybody disagree with me? try 1 sparring session with a martial artists.
In music, if u play a guitar or drums, while practicing, u HAVE to correctly imitate a musical piece or song's notes, tempo etc TO THE TEE, JUST LIKE the real thing. u repeat practicing until u get EVERYTHING right. Just because it's on demo/practice doesn't mean u will "play around" with the music, notes, tempo etc &/or u'll not take it(DEMO) seriously.

Have any of u heard of the sentence: "I want it so bad i can taste it" or something like "success is just around the corner, i can feel it" ?
There's also a mind exercise wherein u are asked to THINK ABOUT A FAVORITE FOOD which, WHEN/IF U THINK REAL HARD, u will eventually taste & yet it's not in front of you nor in your mouth. This is a testament to the fact/idea/theory that ourMIND is very powerful. It's all in the mind, AS WE ALL KNOW.

whether it's poker, music, trading, u can/must feel the REAL THING even while doing demo/practice (this is part of/called Visualization in Psychology). The key here is what we THINK & FEEL. we can do demo trade, feel the REAL thing, BUT the result (this is a minor "drawback", if u will, but should not deter/hinder us in our goal for success&consistency in trading or in any sports/music profession/hobby we are in) is only demo/virtual/unreal/inconcrete.we just have to DETACH ourselves from the "DEMO = DEMO & REAL = REAL" mentality. The reality is in our mind.

Again, i'm saying all this for u & for other trader's benefit, well-capitalized or not.

Cheers
  • #29,600
  • Edited 1:07am May 11, 2009 12:57am | Edited 1:07am
Quoting supremeChaos
Demo (or "Practice" in non-trading terms), DEFINITELY can, should, & must feel like Real/Live.
I'll give several examples, for every1 concerned to be able to grasp this concept:
In taekwondo or other martial arts, we call demo as "sparring sessions". 2 sparring partners will practice/slug it out for a certain amount of time: both will be kicked in different places of the body... it IS a Sparring session (DEMO) but u'll DEFINITELY feel the pain. anybody disagree with me? try 1 sparring session with a martial artists.
You make some good points and this issue has been beat to death all over the forum. But, here is my take on it.

Demo is good to learn the platform your using and when learning a new method to execute the method correctly. It can / will never replace the psychology of trading. There is just no way it can.

Now weather you trade nano lots at .01 / pip or micro's at .10 / pip you will get the psychology of trading because those small amounts still add up to real losses and gains. All the while keeping you in the game with a small investment ($50 - a few $100 bucks).

Personally, I consider a $50 - $100 account trading nano lots 'a demo account' with the added benefit of some real psychology. This is more like sparring because you feel it, but you don't really get hurt.

My take on the James16 method saying demo for 3 months of consecutive gains is so that you learn the mechanics of identifying PPZ's, price action, etc, etc and execute the trades correctly so it gets ingrained and becomes a good habit, the 3 months of demo is not there to assist with psychology. That is why the next step is go in 1/2 your stake. That is when the real trading starts.
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
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