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Where can I learn more about Price Action like those in James16 charts? 9 replies

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james16 Chart Thread

  • #29,541
  • May 9, 2009 1:55pm May 9, 2009 1:55pm
Quoting 4fun
Hey Flem26 good eye that 6000 to 6150 nice level for some pa action most definitelyhttp://www.forexfactory.com/images/icons/icon14.gif
"Don't trade to trade . . . trade to win." - James16
  • #29,542
  • May 9, 2009 2:23pm May 9, 2009 2:23pm
Quoting markmm
Yeah but I think what Jim was saying was the setups werent actual setups because the trader entered before the break of the bar, therefore trading before the PA was established. I would only say a setup failed if it broke the pin bar (for example) by say 10-20 pips then reverses right back to the end of the nose and passes it by 10-20 pips. Very unusual if you are on high timeframe and the location is optimal.

Yep, I know. No offence guys. I'm a huge fan of what James does and also this thread. Have a good one!
"Timing Is Everything. Really I Swear It Is"
  • #29,543
  • May 9, 2009 2:32pm May 9, 2009 2:32pm
Quoting TexasforEX
Yep, I know. No offence guys. I'm a huge fan of what James does and also this thread. Have a good one!
No worries, just the other trader was working off of a wrong premise, but Mike pretty much gave a full analysis. Important I think, as new traders might read his post and get a negative view point and miss out on this excellent material.
Economists have forecast 9 out of the last 5 recessions
  • #29,544
  • May 9, 2009 4:28pm May 9, 2009 4:28pm
Hi

I watch over and over again videos showing trades taken or wouldn't have taken.

and yes I learn a lot from them, just it is not evident enough to me what is explained there is going to be like it supposed to be.

1:
e.g. lots of trader say, take a trade at a PPZ / predetermined S+R which in return are most of the time round Numbers and if there a A+/ PA confirms enter the trade an have a 5-10 PIP S/L set.
If the trade takes off in your direction and you 50+ PIPs move to BE etc etc.

Here I got my first problem.

10 PIP S/L and move to BE......
all this stuff works when you get the chance and the stop hunters leave you alone, which I realized they do not if you set your S/L as close to obvious
S+R or PPZ because those are the places they know and your broker takes you out 9 of 10 times.

Ouch, unluck one would say, just it isn't about luck it is what it is, you just got stop-hunted....PERIOD

Because, what I can see, lots of traders can see and this is A Stop Hunters Paradise.

2:

Also i realized an other problem.
Well known mentors say you should only take a trade when you have PA like a PB on the right place, look for a PB at an A+ PPZ if possible with the trend.

OK this is pretty easy to understand even i do and I am NOOB.

But at the same time those mentors show you on a Video with a perfect PB on a swing high/low and it is a...A+ TRADE.

One looks at the same TF just a different feed and do not see a PB at all instead I do not see any PA Bar at all.

What I like to point at is, what does this trade make legit for one but not for an other?

I think about that I am not the only one which does not see a trade, no there are millions the see the same i see.

If the feed show a total different PA for millions why should this trade work and why is this a A+ PB.

Can't find any logic behind this!


Don't doubt mentors at all, just like to express what i struggle with watching educational videos and hope to get a better understanding.
I think it is healthy to have your own thoughts and try to make sense, not just accept everything that's said without have questions ask.

mea
  • #29,545
  • May 9, 2009 5:24pm May 9, 2009 5:24pm
Hi mea

A bit confused by your first question. Are you saying once price moves ten pips your movng your stop to breakeven and believe your getting stopped hunted. If this is the case let me assure youthis is not stop hunting. Stop hunting is a term thrown around that is 99% of the time misused.
I may have mis read your first question but who is telling you to move your stops this quick. Instead use the cjart to move your stops.

As for question two this is why location ie everything. No matter what feed shows what price did the same on both. Sometimes you miss trades because one doesnt show a trigger pa. So it goes though. There are tons of trades and it is just a matter of waitig for them to appear on YOUR chart. Some people use multiple feeds to get some different view points of the aggregation of price. Just cause your feed doesnt show a pon and mine does, that doesnt take away from mine if all the pieces fall into place.

Hope this helps
Mike

Quoting mea
Hi

I watch over and over again videos showing trades taken or wouldn't have taken.

and yes I learn a lot from them, just it is not evident enough to me what is explained there is going to be like it supposed to be.

1:
e.g. lots of trader say, take a trade at a PPZ / predetermined S+R which in return are most of the time round Numbers and if there a A+/ PA confirms enter the trade an have a 5-10 PIP S/L set.
If the trade takes off in your direction and you 50+ PIPs move to BE etc etc.

Here I got my first problem.

10 PIP S/L...
  • #29,546
  • May 9, 2009 5:30pm May 9, 2009 5:30pm
Hey there,

First of all I am not a J16 mentor or anything, just a guy learning to trade and looking for a way of going about it like everyone who passes through here .

I tried to answer your questions as best I could, to make it a bit easier on myself I put your above post in quotation boxes and I responded to your individual points below in bold writing.

Hope it's of some use to you

Quote
Hi

I watch over and over again videos showing trades taken or wouldn't have taken.

and yes I learn a lot from them, just it is not evident enough to me what is explained there is going to be like it supposed to be.

1:
e.g. lots of trader say, take a trade at a PPZ / predetermined S+R which in return are most of the time round Numbers and if there a A+/ PA confirms enter the trade an have a 5-10 PIP S/L set.

I assume by 5-10 PIP Sl you mean 5-10 pip SL above the Price action ?

Quote
If the trade takes off in your direction and you 50+ PIPs move to BE etc etc.

People don't ALWAYS do that, I rarely do that to be honest, theres no "one solution fits everything"

Quote
Here I got my first problem.

10 PIP S/L and move to BE......
all this stuff works when you get the chance and the stop hunters leave you alone, which I realized they do not if you set your S/L as close to obvious
S+R or PPZ because those are the places they know and your broker takes you out 9 of 10 times.


As far as I am concerned, brokers do not "stop hunt" people, our brokers dont really care about our small accounts, they probably make plenty of money by just hedging and let people lose.

The idea with the stop loss in J16 terns is you are not "leaving" it in an obvious place, if anything you are leaving it in a harder place to hit than the majority of other stops.

Pinbar at swing high - price has top make a new high to hit your stop - hard to do.

Pinbar with PPZ running through it - price has to force its way through orderflow to get to your stop.

Pinbar with a round number running through it - Same

Pinbar with a .61 or .50 fib running through it - Same

If you have a confluence of these - Hard to get stopped out imvho.


Quote
Ouch, unluck one would say, just it isn't about luck it is what it is, you just got stop-hunted....PERIOD

Because, what I can see, lots of traders can see and this is A Stop Hunters Paradise.

What ? I hope I am not misunderstanding you, are you talking about a total SL of 10 pips or, 10 pips above/below the PA ?

Quote
2:

Also i realized an other problem.
Well known mentors say you should only take a trade when you have PA like a PB on the right place, look for a PB at an A+ PPZ if possible with the trend.

OK this is pretty easy to understand even i do and I am NOOB.

But at the same time those mentors show you on a Video with a perfect PB on a swing high/low and it is a...A+ TRADE.

One looks at the same TF just a different feed and do not see a PB at all instead I do not see any PA Bar at all.

What I like to point at is, what does this trade...
[b]
It's all the same, price just aggregates differently,

The solution to this has been answered a lot before, you can either 1) look at one feed or 2) look at a load of feeds.


Man, I used to trade 4HR with four different feeds, so that means I would have a 4HR candle closing every hour (lol) now, what would happen sometimes is you would get price action on one, and get no price action whatsoever on the other three. (Although sometimes you did, sometimes you could get a BUOB or a BEOB or whatever)

So whats happening ? How can I be sure I am taking the right one ? It's a matter of location, if the location is good enough thats what makes it. It's all about orderflow and what moves price.

It basically boils down to - has price got a greater probability of going to X before it comes back and takes out my stop loss at Y, thats all it is. Simple. This method gives you that edge if you are disciplined and patient enough to take it.

Quote
I think about that I am not the only one which does not see a trade, no there are millions the see the same i see.

If the feed show a total different PA for millions why should this trade work and why is this a A+ PB.

Can't find any logic behind this!

Again location is what makes them A+, I honestly think the A+ or B+ or C trades is a flawed concept in this thread, but it was a good idea in a way because it focused on people taking the best of the best.

After a while of looking for this stuff you will see the same thing over and over and over again. Eventually you will get a set of rules of your own.

And your trading decision won't actually be analysis anymore because you have seen everything over and over, it's either an A+ or it's a nothing. It's either a trade or it's not.


Quote
Don't doubt mentors at all, just like to express what i struggle with watching educational videos and hope to get a better understanding.
I think it is healthy to have your own thoughts and try to make sense, not just accept everything that's said without have questions ask.


It is really healthy to have your own thoughts, and that will help you in your trading.

I have said this before, it doesn't matter that Jim or Mike or the other Jim or Santa Clause believe that this stuff works, it's up to you, it requires more work than watching a video.

You speak like a guy who just hasn't put in enough time observing the Daily charts, because if you have backtested them you would simply see the same things occuring again and again.

Go backtest ten years of the Daily's on any feed, read the thread like it's going to be permanently deleted tomorrow and then come back and talk about your experience with it, I guarantee you you will be pleasantly surprised (I know because I sure was )

Hope I answered your questions and didnt waffle to much , feel free to respond with whatever.

Take care,
Jig
  • #29,547
  • May 9, 2009 5:37pm May 9, 2009 5:37pm
yeah i didnt think there was anything wrong with your post tex i was just trying to figure out what was going on. i kept looking at a few posts and then my charts and i was thinking what the heck are people talking about?

jim





Quoting TexasforEX
Yep, I know. No offence guys. I'm a huge fan of what James does and also this thread. Have a good one!
  • #29,548
  • May 9, 2009 5:40pm May 9, 2009 5:40pm
Can't believe Mike was in before me ! I even refreshed the page mid way through typing my response to check if he was in before me . . .

Mike you are a Forex machine, seemingly always awake, answers all PMs within usually 5Mins.

Your like a Forex Chuck Norris,

Mike doesn't trade price action anymore, he just stares at his screen until the pinbars give him the pips he wants.
  • #29,549
  • May 9, 2009 5:43pm May 9, 2009 5:43pm
  •  krue
  • | Joined Mar 2008 | Status: finger scares cat, power of illusio | 410 Posts
Jim,

Thanks many for emphasizing this again and again. and I am very sorry that sometimes I simply couldn't follow up the break rule, however, for some reason which I think I have been poisoned by the attached document.

I don't know who is the writer, I fully understand his good intention to help people out, but, the document quotes it as "experienced" to trade on the close of the pin or retracement on the pin. whenever it is claimed to be related to "experienced", regarless if it's true or not, and obviously the good reason is that this document has been circulated here many years. I have been totally convinced it is something worth full attention to study. secondly,there are some cases where a broken pin leads to failed trades. this gives me another piece of poison pill. having these said, then, I am addicted to find how the aggressive and successful traders might be doing. probably mike? no; jarroo? no, as obviously not; probably rac? yes? hey, sorry, rac, I am putting a yes vote to you, but, to be honest, I don't have a prove yet, probably sometimes I found you were trading without pa. but, you are excellently successful trader here, you are the model no one would refuse to accept. and other successful traders? I am commenting on this not to judge good or bad, simly pointing out the sycho implication of the trading style( I define it as a style, coz I still believe in a couple of successful traders are trading before pin break, I am sorry to say this if I am wrong. I quote it as a style, as I am a statistic believer). see, how badly I have been poisoned by this piece of attached document !

I am spelling this out as I need it to be written here to force myself taking the bad piece of concept out of my mind, also remind others to be minded of the noise in this room. to speed up the process, I will appreciate to see a couple of your words, Jim, on the attached document, if possible, and say a word about it, please, if I may? I guess people like me who read this document have subconcious impact already deep in their/my mind. someday, the devil will probably climb out of the window again. to verify the concepts, one may do a backtest sort of statistic count, but, I doult I have the ability to do so, given the complexity of the price action( sometimes, i prefer to regarding it as ramdonness property of the market condition, even though it's being chopy and trendy), the statistic conducted by a not successful trader may not be as reliable, I think. so, your view on the attached will have a decisive impact. I know this is simply my hope for you to help with that, I will apologise if what I am asking is not what you are willing to do.

In the end, thanks again, tons again, for the wonderful thread which have been giving me hope and determination in the adventure in the trading junggle


Quoting james16
yes and it always will.

it bothers me that so many people here seem to be taking these set ups before a break.

a pin bar IS NOT a pin bar until it has broken in the correct direction.

until that happens it just LOOKS like a pin bar.

if it does not happen then it NEVER was a pin bar.

same with an outside bar.

if you play these bars on retraces before a break your a hero when it works and a goat when it does not.

why not just wait for 3 to 5 great set ups a month and take a break on them and be a hero 90 percent of the time and make...
Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf Pin bars-advanced.pdf   113 KB | 873 downloads
  • #29,550
  • May 9, 2009 5:44pm May 9, 2009 5:44pm
Quoting Jigsaw
Your like a Forex Chuck Norris,
Hey, c'mon... He's WAY better than Chuck...
When in doubt, sit on your hands...
  • #29,551
  • May 9, 2009 5:56pm May 9, 2009 5:56pm
Quoting Jigsaw
Can't believe Mike was in before me ! I even refreshed the page mid way through typing my response to check if he was in before me . . .

Mike you are a Forex machine, seemingly always awake, answers all PMs within usually 5Mins.

Your like a Forex Chuck Norris,

Mike doesn't trade price action anymore, he just stares at his screen until the pinbars give him the pips he wants.

I am getting fast on my iphone so i take you all with me now

  • #29,552
  • Edited 7:31pm May 9, 2009 6:07pm | Edited 7:31pm
hello krue and thanks for giving me this segway,

This thread is very old and full of advanced techniques of every stripe from a thousand people.

IM NOT SAYING THAT ANY OF THEM ARE WRONG. Trading pullbacks before breaks has been very profitable for some that have the experience needed to do it correctly.

I PERSONALLY DONT DO IT but if someone puts in the time and practice and due to that time and practice LEARNS HOW then congrats to them but thats not how it usually goes.

If someone wants to trade pullbacks before breaks with real money it must be only after they have spent time learning how on demo and which ones are great candidates thru patient practice.

How many of you trading bars on pullbacks before breaks went thru the full minimum requirements outline with that method alone to prove it out first?

the few doing it with success probably did and the ones getting burned are dancing the same old dance.

come to a forum, find a hot thread, spend a couple of hours reading and yippeee yeeehawww im gonna be rich in a month.

IM NOT TALKING ABOUT PAUL OR KRUE.

ALL OF YOU realize that this equates to about 80 percent of the people that come to this thread dont you?

YOU ARE aware of that correct?

IM NOT talking to "you guys" ( you all know who i mean)

Im talking about "most people". usually new people.

This thread is and always has been about saving as many people as possible.

It will never be many but it will hopefully be enough to make it worth it.








Quoting krue
Jim,

Thanks many for emphasizing this again and again. and I am very sorry that sometimes I simply couldn't follow up the break rule, however, for some reason which I think I have been poisoned by the attached document.

I don't know who is the writer, I fully understand his good intention to help people out, but, the document quotes it as "experienced" to trade on the close of the pin or retracement on the pin. whenever it is claimed to be related to "experienced", regarless if it's true or not, and obviously the good reason is that this...
  • #29,553
  • May 9, 2009 6:10pm May 9, 2009 6:10pm
paul you have been around for a while and your post will help a lot of people now and in the future.

i want to make sure you dont think im pointing a finger at you my friend.

this is how i learned also so be encouraged.

in my case it was the same thing as you until i had the large account.

jim

Quoting isitrue
Hi,

I've been around for a while. Just thought I'd post some trades that should have worked out, but didn't. Days like these make me think that spending years in front of a computer screen studying/perfecting trading is quite pointless unless you have a $200k account. (I started writing a couple paragraphs as to why, but decided against including it since it would take up too much space. And to avoid the hassle of counter-arguments. Let's just leave it as my opinion.) On to the charts.

Last night, here's how things looked:

CHF: Bullish
USD:...
  • #29,554
  • May 9, 2009 7:12pm May 9, 2009 7:12pm
  •  krue
  • | Joined Mar 2008 | Status: finger scares cat, power of illusio | 410 Posts
"come to a forum, find a hot thread, spend a couple of hours reading and yippeee yeeehawww im gonna be rich in a month"

no, Jim, I am diligent student learning your method with practise, you know that. you also probably know how hard I am struggling to get things through. so, please, I am not sort of people read and rich

I also appreciate very much of your generousity to give up the gold for helping people here, Jim, no doult about it, not me at least, and not the majority, I believe in. I will fight against him with my sward in your glory if anyone here could't recognize this point.

let me digest what you said below, I think it will take me quite a while to be fully internalised, you know, I am a stupid and slow student here. so, please don't blame me if I had similar concern in the future.


Quoting james16
hello krue and thanks for giving me this segway,

This thread is very old and full of advanced techniques of every stripe from a thousand people.

IM NOT SAYING THAT ANY OF THEM ARE WRONG. Trading pullbacks before breaks has been very profitable for some that have the experience needed to do it correctly.

I PERSONALLY DONT DO IT but if someone puts in the time and practice and due to that time and practice LEARNS HOW then congrats to them but thats not how it usually goes.

If someone wants to trade pullbacks before breaks with real money...
  • #29,555
  • May 9, 2009 7:31pm May 9, 2009 7:31pm
i just used your post as a way to get thru to new people krue and re-enforce things to others.

i wasnt talking to you directly.

i was glad you posted what you did.

jim

Quoting krue
"come to a forum, find a hot thread, spend a couple of hours reading and yippeee yeeehawww im gonna be rich in a month"

no, Jim, I am diligent student learning your method with practise, you know that. you also probably know how hard I am struggling to get things through. so, please, I am not sort of people read and rich

I also appreciate very much of your generousity to give up the gold for helping people here, Jim, no doult about it, not me at least, and not the majority, I believe in. I will fight against him with my sward in your glory...
  • #29,556
  • May 9, 2009 7:37pm May 9, 2009 7:37pm
  •  krue
  • | Joined Mar 2008 | Status: finger scares cat, power of illusio | 410 Posts
yes, Jim, I undertood now. you are my beloved man, you knew that, and my girlfriend knows too. god bless you, Jim


Quoting james16
i just used your post as a way to get thru to new people krue and re-enforce things to others.

i wasnt talking to you directly.

i was glad you posted what you did.

jim
  • #29,557
  • May 9, 2009 7:41pm May 9, 2009 7:41pm
thanks krue,

you regular folks need to remember that its easier for me to quote off of your posts than new people that dont know me.

i knew a post like yours was coming and i was hoping it would come from a regular to the thread.

i was glad it was you instead of someone i did not know



jim



Quoting krue
yes, Jim, I undertood now. you are my beloved man, you knew that, and my girlfriend knows too. god bless you, Jim
  • #29,558
  • May 9, 2009 8:38pm May 9, 2009 8:38pm
Must be a zillion ways to skin a cat. In the end its really simple your account is it growing or shrinking thats the Scorecard Period!!! Jim and his posse are here giving away for friggin free a method to help us slay this coldblooded 4x monster, yes Monster! If someone is struggling why tweak a proven winning method stick to the fundamentals, in any sport or business when things arent right its back to the basics if they are off nothing will fall in place. Why try to run when you cant walk yet all in due time. Ive put in lots of time and energy in my quest to become a trader thats a word I dont use lightly.Yes I take retraces when in the right place and situation my account says Ive earned the privilege, believe me if i wasnt profitable I sure as heck wouldnt.Jim can give us tools but its up to us as individuales to gain experience thats something that cant be bought or given. So play by the rules to start build some confidence gain some situational awareness if you want to tweak something you better know the basics inside out Beware this monster Bites!!
  • #29,559
  • May 9, 2009 10:00pm May 9, 2009 10:00pm
Quoting raczekfx
I see, we evolved into 2 PA groups....
Breakers and touchers....
First being more mature and patient, second... cries often..., but if they're right........ :-)
Thats about the jest of it! hehe
  • #29,560
  • May 9, 2009 10:25pm May 9, 2009 10:25pm
Found this on another good thread its long but interesting Mark Douglas



http://www.4shared.com/file/96740657...er_Market.html
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