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  • #7,241
  • Mar 25, 2009 6:49am Mar 25, 2009 6:49am
yeah still in, price rejected @75 res, looking for a retest soon, moved stop up @40 and will trail up to retest then take whats given.
  • #7,242
  • Mar 25, 2009 7:47am Mar 25, 2009 7:47am
Quoting bigjim1958
Hi Razor:
Do you trade both the 1 hr and Daily Dibs and if you do, do you have a preference? Thanks for your time.

Jim
All 3 are good. Daily, 4 hourly and hourly.

Hourly is good because there are multiple trades that can appear and the risk to reward can be great if you catch the run.

4 hourly is basically 4 hourly candles blended, so whilst the risk (in pips) might be higher, your chances of catching a breakout, or continuation are stronger, plus you have some more pips to play with. If on the hourly your risk is 20-30 pips you may get a false break out, pull back to knock you out followed by the breakout. On the 4 hourly you might have the same potential setup, a larger SL which misses the pullback and your in. You may have to weather more pips to lock in break even but you may also be in less trades minimising some exposure.

Daily is the grand daddy. I took my trade on the daily figuring the IB was a reversal candle and that after some serious gains the past few days, there would be the pull back. So far it has bounced up and down, but I am still holding it and its free.

Which do I prefer. It really depends. I work full time and get home as the the london markets open (bout 4 in the arvo in Perth, Australia) so if I have time ill look for opening on the hourly. However for the times where i may have missed a trade on the hourly ill look for the 4 hourly and so on. SO it is really a situational thing. Hourlys for me a great because the Risk to BE is usually small, however like my daily entry, I have set it up, it has executed and now I can just check it every now and then.

Hope this dribble helps lol
  • #7,243
  • Mar 25, 2009 7:57am Mar 25, 2009 7:57am
Quoting Archie
Hi all!

What SL and TP have all of you found to be the most successful?

I most often use TP and SL equal to the hight of the IB, but that hasn't always proved to be the best settings. I have tried with a lower TP and SL, but I don't like changing the RR-ratio going lower than 1:1.

Also, I most often use the 1H, but I have seen some success in this thread with the 4H. What do you all prefer?

Any input would be appreciated.

Regards

Archie
Another way to trade this system is with 2:1 TP at your first limit.

What I mean by that is if your account allows more than 2 lots, say 3 then at the first limit (1:1) exit with 2 lots and let the 3rd run. If you do this then you will still take a marginal amount more than having even lots for a total BE. Then with 4 lots take 3 out at 1:1 and let 1 run. 5 have 3 come out and let 2 run.

Example
(3 Lots) SL at 30 means TP at 30. Exit 2 lots = 60 and if your last lot gets stopped out - 30 then your total for trade is 30

(4 Lots) SL 30 = TP 30. Take 3 off for 90 last one hits SL for -30 total trade = 60

You are still trading the system in the way it was intended but with a different swing on capital management.

It is something that I have yet to try out but it may help with account growth over time. At least this way you are taking the bulk off at 1:1 and allowing what is left to run for slightly more than a free trade. As your lot sizes increase you may try many different approaches such as trailing some lots, set TP on some lots ect. What ever gives your account the edge and growth
  • #7,244
  • Mar 25, 2009 8:00am Mar 25, 2009 8:00am
Quoting icarusfx
yeah still in, price rejected @75 res, looking for a retest soon, moved stop up @40 and will trail up to retest then take whats given.

stopped out @53 and happy enough with it
  • #7,245
  • Mar 25, 2009 12:57pm Mar 25, 2009 12:57pm
Would it not be a problem with this system if:
You take the total 3 lots stop loss and you lose 3 lots.

But if you go up and hit the take profit limit of 1:1, you only gain 1:1 and 1 lot is free to continue.

This will proof a problem if your win loss ratio is less than 50% or lesser as this means that every time you take the stop loss you lose 3 lots but when you gain, you gain only 1 lot.

What do you think?

Quoting Razor_trader
Another way to trade this system is with 2:1 TP at your first limit.

What I mean by that is if your account allows more than 2 lots, say 3 then at the first limit (1:1) exit with 2 lots and let the 3rd run. If you do this then you will still take a marginal amount more than having even lots for a total BE. Then with 4 lots take 3 out at 1:1 and let 1 run. 5 have 3 come out and let 2 run.

Example
(3 Lots) SL at 30 means TP at 30. Exit 2 lots = 60 and if your last lot gets stopped out - 30 then your total for trade is 30

(4 Lots) SL 30 = TP...
  • #7,246
  • Mar 25, 2009 4:39pm Mar 25, 2009 4:39pm
Quoting tradertt
Would it not be a problem with this system if:
You take the total 3 lots stop loss and you lose 3 lots.

But if you go up and hit the take profit limit of 1:1, you only gain 1:1 and 1 lot is free to continue.

This will proof a problem if your win loss ratio is less than 50% or lesser as this means that every time you take the stop loss you lose 3 lots but when you gain, you gain only 1 lot.

What do you think?
your win loss ratio with this system will be close to 50% or worse. By letting 1 lot (or less than 50% of your total lots run) run and getting a great breakout, much the same as the break out after FOMC news, then you are increasing your account that way.

Im not too clear on what you mean with your question entirely so I will try to answer it.

This method is derived by entering a trade, placing an initial limit for half your lots at the point = to SL plus spread. By doing so, what remains on the table is a free trade.

I will use random numbers to show you.

The EUR open candle is short so we are looking short for the day. There is an IB that has the high at 1.3029 and the low at 1.3001. Thats a 28 pip range. To enter we place a stop order at 1.3000 and a SL at 1.3030. The risk is 30 our first limit is at 1.3062 (assuming 2 pip spread)

Now if our order is 2 lots, then half come off at 1.3062 and the other half runs. If we get stopped out then half our order has gain 30, the other half looses 30 so we effectively have a 0 sum trade.

The way I discuss it is if you have more than 2 lots, break up the majority to hit your limit and the rest to run.

IE @ 3 lots you would have 2 come off at your limit 2 x 30 = 60, and then 1 run. If you get stopped out on that last 1 then it is a -30 so your total for the trade is +30

@ 4 lots you would have 3 come of at your limit 3 x 30 = 90 and then 1 run. If it gets stopped out the it is a -30 leaving your trade at +60.

That is just a method that might help with account growth, like I said it is not something I have trialled yet, mainly because my account doesnt allow for more than 2 lots at the moment (i would be trading more than my % set) however once it does i will be giving it a go.

Now sure enough there will be times where you would love to have more lots riding the wave, but there are a couple of things that can kill you as a trader and being greedy can be 1 of those. To be on a wave is something that will boost your account significantly and at the end of the day, if your first limit is hit your are then still getting a positive result. If your trading 4 lots or more, it would be great to have 2 lots off and 2 lots on the run, but for me, I enjoy the thought of a free trade and some.

We all need to be comfortable with what we put on the table, and how we trade is part of who we are.

Some are aggressive, some are conservative. Me im more conservative, hence whilst my account may allow for a higher % of risk I am happy with what a lay out in front of me. There may come a time where I am completely satisfied with my trading that i will up my anti, but only in time.

I hope this helps
  • #7,247
  • Mar 25, 2009 4:51pm Mar 25, 2009 4:51pm
Thanks for your thoughts and answers razor and icarus.

/Archie
  • #7,248
  • Mar 25, 2009 4:54pm Mar 25, 2009 4:54pm
Quoting tradertt
Would it not be a problem with this system if:
You take the total 3 lots stop loss and you lose 3 lots.

But if you go up and hit the take profit limit of 1:1, you only gain 1:1 and 1 lot is free to continue.

This will proof a problem if your win loss ratio is less than 50% or lesser as this means that every time you take the stop loss you lose 3 lots but when you gain, you gain only 1 lot.

What do you think?
I will take a slightly different (and quicker spin). ALL trading strategy's have a risk involved and no matter how good a strategy is you will loose quite often. It is how you manage your trade that determines how successful you will be.

Some people trade for fixed results. They take a certain R/R of 1.5/1 (or more) and that is their trade. They are happy to make 45 pips of a 30 pip risk. The problem with this (as ive outline in a previous post) is that there are occasions where you have a terrible run and suddenly youve lost 5 trades netting -150. in order to get your account back in the green you need to win 4 trades back to back.

Some people trail there order with a SL. This can become victim to a big swing or wipsaw knocking them out for small results or small losses (depending on SL distance). Trailing stops are work well when the market trends for a period and doesnt retrace to much.

This system gives you great control after you have secured free trade because what is left on the table is yours to manage. It beats out the fixed trade simply because your R/R is completly at your discretion, provide the market is moving in your direction.

At worst, all trades involve risk. You have to deal with the fact that you will loose, quite often more than winning. By having a system in place where you can maximise your win by letting it run (and it is easy to do when you know it isnt costing you anything) you ultimatly increase your profit. Now instead of NEEDING 4 winning trades, you just let this trade get you back.

Sorry its another long winded novel
  • #7,249
  • Mar 25, 2009 4:55pm Mar 25, 2009 4:55pm
Quoting Archie
Thanks for your thoughts and answers razor and icarus.

/Archie
No problem Archie.

Take care and keep your pips in the green
  • #7,250
  • Mar 25, 2009 5:29pm Mar 25, 2009 5:29pm
Is anyone aware of a script or ea that allows us simultaneously open two or three (depending on your mm strategy) trades at once?
  • #7,251
  • Mar 25, 2009 8:12pm Mar 25, 2009 8:12pm
Hi Razor,

Thank you for the explanation. I understand what is the free trade but what I was referring to is that if you do not even hit the 1:1 Free Trade Take profit level - you will lose all 2 lots and that is what I get from forward testing.

4 Losses of 2 lots each
1 Break Even free trade
1 big gain

What do you think?

Quoting Razor_trader
your win loss ratio with this system will be close to 50% or worse. By letting 1 lot (or less than 50% of your total lots run) run and getting a great breakout, much the same as the break out after FOMC news, then you are increasing your account that way.

Im not too clear on what you mean with your question entirely so I will try to answer it.

This method is derived by entering a trade, placing an initial limit for half your lots at the point = to SL plus spread. By doing so, what remains on the table is a free trade.

I will use random numbers...
  • #7,252
  • Mar 25, 2009 10:30pm Mar 25, 2009 10:30pm
Quoting tradertt
Hi Razor,

Thank you for the explanation. I understand what is the free trade but what I was referring to is that if you do not even hit the 1:1 Free Trade Take profit level - you will lose all 2 lots and that is what I get from forward testing.

4 Losses of 2 lots each
1 Break Even free trade
1 big gain

What do you think?
Andsuch is the whole premise behind this method, to catch the runner, be in the long tail trade, all the breakevens and loosers are just part of catching the runner.
  • #7,253
  • Mar 26, 2009 4:16am Mar 26, 2009 4:16am
Short EUR

Just got in on last hours IB, only been home from work 5 mins and got myself a small risk trade. The daily candle says down so im still down lol
  • #7,254
  • Mar 26, 2009 4:25am Mar 26, 2009 4:25am
Quoting tradertt
Hi Razor,

Thank you for the explanation. I understand what is the free trade but what I was referring to is that if you do not even hit the 1:1 Free Trade Take profit level - you will lose all 2 lots and that is what I get from forward testing.

4 Losses of 2 lots each
1 Break Even free trade
1 big gain

What do you think?
well yes thats true but only if you were to enter every ib willy-nilly, to trade this way successfully you do need a certain amount of trading knowledge/experience to help you "sift the wheat from the chaff" as it were. most experienced traders can look at a chart then choose if they wish to enter, this just provides a simple method to define the peramiters of the trade!

i personally expect a better win/loss than 50/50 my avg is somewhat higher but i don't let my winning trades run as much as i could do (i scalped for afew years and still find giving pips back quite a tough thing to do beyond certain levels) but it can often be to my own detriment, just look my trade yesterday i put a trailing stop in place which got hit (made 2 x risk on my second trade(1:1 on the first)) so i came away happy, but price then shot up to 7:1 r/r at its high? if i were trading this system to the letter i'd still be in the trade and up 90+ pips ( 3.7:1 r/r)..

whats im trying to say is like most things the devils in the detail.

kind regards

ps missed 4 good trades today u/j g/j au/u nz/u all came whilst i was enjoying breaky..... ah well there's always more!
  • #7,255
  • Mar 26, 2009 4:26am Mar 26, 2009 4:26am
Quoting tradertt
Hi Razor,

Thank you for the explanation. I understand what is the free trade but what I was referring to is that if you do not even hit the 1:1 Free Trade Take profit level - you will lose all 2 lots and that is what I get from forward testing.

4 Losses of 2 lots each
1 Break Even free trade
1 big gain

What do you think?
As geoff has mentioned, that is how the strategy works. IF you catch a winner you stay on it until YOUR happy to take profit.

Now for most we are using some indicator, such as a Simple Moving Average of certain range. Some may trail there stops. As I was saying in the second post there are literally stacks of ways for YOU as a trader to take profit where YOU feel comfortable.

This strategy is based upon getting entrys and holding. If you loose some trades here and there that is trading in a nutshell. What you do with the big fish will depend on how profitable you will be in the future.

Dont be dishearted by a thread that tells you you will loose trades. YOU WILL LOOSE TRADES REGARDLESS OF HOW GOOD YOUR METHODS MAY BE. The difference between this system is it gives you clear opportunity to have a free trade once in a while (more often than not). It is not a system that will GUARENTEE millions in a year. Those threads leave you bankrupt more often than not.

Take care mate
  • #7,256
  • Mar 26, 2009 4:33am Mar 26, 2009 4:33am
Quoting Razor_trader
Short EUR

Just got in on last hours IB, only been home from work 5 mins and got myself a small risk trade. The daily candle says down so im still down lol
well it's sitting near the top for a short channel but there's long term channel support around the 35000 mark...setting up for a breakout "but which way?" dun dun daaaaaa :

good luck
  • #7,257
  • Mar 26, 2009 4:36am Mar 26, 2009 4:36am
long e/j
  • #7,258
  • Mar 26, 2009 4:38am Mar 26, 2009 4:38am
Quoting icarusfx
long e/j
entered with only 1% risk on this one....
  • #7,259
  • Mar 26, 2009 4:52am Mar 26, 2009 4:52am
Quoting icarusfx
long e/j
needs to break daily R1 @ 31
  • #7,260
  • Mar 26, 2009 4:58am Mar 26, 2009 4:58am
Quoting icarusfx
well it's sitting near the top for a short channel but there's long term channel support around the 35000 mark...setting up for a breakout "but which way?" dun dun daaaaaa :

good luck
Well im still short from my daily and it does seem to running out of steam but its free, the new trade is a 28 pip risk which id like to see become free too. If we do break out then it would be nice, but as mention there is a trendline support from the bottom that might turn it back around. Time my friend will tell, it always does lol
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