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  • #75,501
  • Mar 14, 2009 2:37pm Mar 14, 2009 2:37pm
is trailing stops really able to give you more chance of profits? I guess chance is you don't have to watch the market all day, right? but I think it will bring less profits in time of choppy...
Quoting Jay Walker
The great people at Oanda, in their infinite wisdom, couldn't be bothered to program a platform with trailing stops. So when I say I'm stopped out, it's not a trailing stop. At least, not in the sense that it's automated.
.
  • #75,502
  • Mar 14, 2009 2:38pm Mar 14, 2009 2:38pm
Hi Ed,

Thanks for your questions.

Quoting SpecialEd
do you control it manually and actually have the self-discipline to "pull the plug" when a trade goes awry?
Yes, and yes. If you can't have the self discipline to pull the plug on a bad trade then you shouldn't be trading.


Quoting SpecialEd
Do you trade with small enough lot sizes or big enough accounts that you don't need to worry?
Yes. As always MM is the #1 thing (not SL setting.) It's just as you've said here. This is the biggest mistake most traders make (trading w/ too high of a percentage of their capital.) Big accounts, small accounts.. that doesn't matter. Percentage of total account size matters. Sorry but your account size DOES dictate the size of lots you should be trading and how much money you will be making with forex. Anyone that tells you otherwise is selling something. If you're not going to be making enough money by trading the appropriate sized lots, then go get another job and come back when you have the funds to trade the size lots you need to trade to make the amount of money you want while still practicing proper MM.


Quoting SpecialEd
Do you hedge?
When it makes sense to do so, yes. When it doesn't, no.


Quoting SpecialEd
Or, do you just always choose the right trade?
See my previous posts for the answer to that. I've been posting a lot of my trades and successes/failures in real time here at FF.
  • #75,503
  • Mar 14, 2009 2:39pm Mar 14, 2009 2:39pm
Quoting billye
thanks for sharing chicky... I guess risk is at how is the probability t/p at +10 can be hit.when i enter a trade on a few chosen indicators, 1/3 of times it can hit +5 t/p, 2/3 I try to exit at...
I was there. I did the same thing i.e. went for a bigger move just after the break-out with a tight stop loss. Learned more lesson, then changed it to wait the PA to get near to the point from which it initially left (test the resistence as many call it). Learned evern more lessons. The next strategy was to divide the lots and enter gardually at all these levels. Learned more lessons, and now confused. That's why I say it works only in certain situations.
The Thief of Wall Street
  • #75,504
  • Mar 14, 2009 2:39pm Mar 14, 2009 2:39pm
Quoting billye
is trailing stops really able to give you more chance of profits? I guess chance is you don't have to watch the market all day, right?
.
Trailing stops can be a beautiful thing.
Not all sins are created equal
  • #75,505
  • Mar 14, 2009 2:48pm Mar 14, 2009 2:48pm
Quoting Jay Walker
I also believe in minimizing risks. So I do use a S/L.

So I always end up getting stopped out of a trade.
What about all those times when getting stopped out means you just lost a lot of money you would have made had there not been a set SL?


Quoting Jay Walker
If you don't mind Ed, I would like to ad a few questions. What if the platform goes down for a while? What if there is a power failure and you can't do anything about your trades? What if you had to evacuate and be forced to leave your station?

We're always hoping that these situations never happen. Unfortunately they do from time to time. If such situation came up, what would you do?
One solution that another member posted in the last week or so is to have 2 internet connections, brokers, and platforms. Though I personally do not (yet) have that type of setup and haven't had the need. However, here again, proper MM can (in theory) eliminate these issues.
  • #75,506
  • Mar 14, 2009 2:50pm Mar 14, 2009 2:50pm
Quoting KillerWhale
Oh by the way,
Everyone has s/l always in place.
Its called

MARGIN CALL
Quoting emda
there is always a stoploss... the margin call level...
trading without stoploss means trading with the full stop that a margin call can give you. This depends then on the leverage used. Since trading is only about money management... trading without stoploss is perfectly ok.



Well played, sirs.
  • #75,507
  • Mar 14, 2009 2:53pm Mar 14, 2009 2:53pm
thanks for sharing chicky... remark on test resistance sounds reasonable... but I cannot guess the exact right time to break I guess. oh, as far as s/l and let profit run, my master played another way. he open scalping with -8 s/l and +20 t/p....if position open and go straight to -8 s/l he accepts it....once price run into profit range, change s/l to 0; if high confidence chance, he enter at -20 s/l and change s/l to 0 and let profit run....................I saw he usually do 10 trades a day and 7/10 is stopped out at 0, 2/10 stopped at -8, and 1/10 is at profit... he seems to regard 1 spread paid to broker when 0 s/l, and -8 s/l to be fees handed to the bottle-god for opening a bet.
Quoting Chicky
I was there. I did the same thing i.e. went for a bigger move just after the break-out with a tight stop loss. Learned more lesson, then changed it to wait the PA to get near to the point from which it initially left (test the resistence as many call it). Learned evern more lessons. The next strategy was to divide the lots and enter gardually at all these levels. Learned more lessons, and now confused. That's why I say it works only in certain situations.
  • #75,508
  • Mar 14, 2009 2:55pm Mar 14, 2009 2:55pm
Quoting KillerWhale
I just wonder how you would react if a trade really goes a few thousand pips against you. If you can handle that without s/l it's gonna take so much margin that trading that account can't be fun anymore
This is where the mental SL and self-discipline aspects come in. But I'd rather handle that in real-time than setting a SL to info that I saw in the past, not to mention giving someone else the opportunity to capitalize on my SL at my expense.
  • #75,509
  • Mar 14, 2009 2:56pm Mar 14, 2009 2:56pm
did you test in fxgame they have that, but my fxtrade on limit order hit sometimes cannot open t/p & s/l order in 0.5 second, and change order for s/l and t/p sometimes don't respond in 0.5 second... slow as crawl... I guess what they do for a trailing stop is constantly emulate that you hand modify a s/l order, that can make system even slow I fear. >_<
Quoting Jay Walker
Trailing stops can be a beautiful thing.
  • #75,510
  • Mar 14, 2009 2:58pm Mar 14, 2009 2:58pm
Quoting billye
if forex use a leverage of position size:acc size >20:1 for amplify scalping profit... who can bare -200 pips in red?
Why were you scalping w/ high leverage at that time and even if that was ok then why would you let a "scalp" get to -200 in the first place?
  • #75,511
  • Edited 3:02pm Mar 14, 2009 3:02pm | Edited 3:02pm
Quoting emda
there is nothing wrong with that... but many times you will be stopped at BE and then you realize that you are trading with half leverage only... but.. sometimes it doesn't get stopped... and you can run that trade for weeks... then it is really worth to do it. Don't get desperate if 95% of the times gets stopped at BE.. So . my conclusion is that it is a good practice.. but will not get profits quicker than other methods. It's a more conservative trading style.
Thanks Emda. I may revert back to this tactic once again, and try to live with using 50% of the available leverage for the sake of risk management.

ps. Risk Management to me is a term wider than Money Management. MM is just a part of Riks Management. I clarify this for all in view of an earlier comment by another friend.
The Thief of Wall Street
  • #75,512
  • Mar 14, 2009 3:02pm Mar 14, 2009 3:02pm
Quoting psiholog

You see I too just like everyone else had strong emotional issues when I first started. Being wrong is an issue that I just could not accept and even when the most logical thing to do was close a losing trade that I should have done in June, I just could not bring myself mentally to push that close button.
I don't have a problem admitting I'm wrong and closing a trade. For me it's just numbers on the screen and is rarely emotional.
  • #75,513
  • Mar 14, 2009 3:04pm Mar 14, 2009 3:04pm
Quoting Jay Walker
The great people at Oanda, in their infinite wisdom, couldn't be bothered to program a platform with trailing stops. So when I say I'm stopped out, it's not a trailing stop. At least, not in the sense that it's automated.
They are working on that btw.
  • #75,514
  • Mar 14, 2009 3:04pm Mar 14, 2009 3:04pm
I'm using position:acc=10:1 to amplify scalping ROI by x10, I have bad habits that if price run toward my -20 s/l, I change s/l to -100. >_< and sometimes if I long and price fall, I add a long order at lower price against trend in order to balance the avg price lower for an exit in choppy market...that gives me 20:1 sometimes... it has put me to -50 pips this week. I guess if I don't fix this bad habit. I will be wiped out soon.
Quoting F.x.
Why were you scalping w/ high leverage at that time and even if that was ok then would you let a &quot;scalp&quot; get to -200 in the first place?
  • #75,515
  • Mar 14, 2009 3:07pm Mar 14, 2009 3:07pm
Quoting billye
thanks for sharing chicky... remark on test resistance sounds reasonable... but I cannot guess the exact right time to break I guess. oh, as far as s/l and let profit run, my master played another way. he open scalping with -8 s/l and +20 t/p....if position open and go straight to -8 s/l he accepts it....once price run into profit range, change s/l to 0; if high confidence chance, he enter at -20 s/l and change s/l to...
Caution: I do not use pips as measure of stop-loss, but a certain price level e.g. 1.2856, 1.3125, etc. It could be anywhere between 3 to 100 pips away from my entry point.
The Thief of Wall Street
  • #75,516
  • Mar 14, 2009 3:09pm Mar 14, 2009 3:09pm
Quoting billye
I'm using position:acc=10:1 to amplify scalping ROI by x10, I have bad habits that if price run toward my -20 s/l, I change s/l to -100. >_< and sometimes if I long and price fall, I add a long order at lower price against trend in order to balance the avg price lower for an exit in choppy market...that gives me 20:1 sometimes... it has put me to -50 pips this week. I guess if I don't fix this bad habit. I will be wiped out soon.
I don't understand how someone can "scalp" and have time to set a SL when entering, much less modify it while it's in play.

In terms of adding to your position as price moves against you, it just comes down to MM when placing your initial trade.

But you're blending scalping at high leverage with position-averaging, which is why you are getting in trouble w/ this.

You might try picking one or the other and going with that for a day or so just for perspective.
  • #75,517
  • Mar 14, 2009 3:09pm Mar 14, 2009 3:09pm
Quoting Jay Walker
The great people at Oanda, in their infinite wisdom, couldn't be bothered to program a platform with trailing stops. So when I say I'm stopped out, it's not a trailing stop. At least, not in the sense that it's automated.

Initially, my S/L is just wild. For instance, I went long at 2827 this week on the daily chart.

From that point, I have to make a decision on how long I believe the trend will last. This will affect where my S/L will be.

If I think it won't last too long (or feel like quick cash), I set my S/L at the last low....
That's good input, thanks. So with a 271 pip S/L, the key, it would seem, was to trade a lot size small enough to still be good money management (like 2-3% in my books). Agree?
Up or down, gimme a ticket
  • #75,518
  • Mar 14, 2009 3:12pm Mar 14, 2009 3:12pm
Quoting billye
is trailing stops really able to give you more chance of profits? I guess chance is you don't have to watch the market all day, right? but I think it will bring less profits in time of choppy...
.
Trailing stops will definitely yield less profits in choppy times, but unless you're a good scalper, should you really be trading that?

I don't always use TSL, but will often use the minimum (TSL=15) to get that automatic trigger of first SL. Then, when that's hit, I may turn off TSL and let the profit run. From that point, I'll move SL manually.
Up or down, gimme a ticket
  • #75,519
  • Mar 14, 2009 3:13pm Mar 14, 2009 3:13pm
Good post, FX. Thanks a lot.

Quoting F.x.
Hi Ed,

Thanks for your questions.



Yes, and yes. If you can't have the self discipline to pull the plug on a bad trade then you shouldn't be trading.




Yes. As always MM is the #1 thing (not SL setting.) It's just as you've said here. This is the biggest mistake most traders make (trading w/ too high of a percentage of their capital.) Big accounts, small accounts.. that doesn't matter. Percentage of total account size matters. Sorry but your account size DOES dictate the size of lots you should be trading and how much money you will...
Up or down, gimme a ticket
  • #75,520
  • Mar 14, 2009 3:16pm Mar 14, 2009 3:16pm
I see, that is a resistance level. how is position size vs acc size then?
Quoting Chicky
Caution: I do not use pips as measure of stop-loss, but a certain price level e.g. 1.2856, 1.3125, etc. It could be anywhere between 3 to 100 pips away from my entry point.
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