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  • #75,461
  • Mar 14, 2009 4:12am Mar 14, 2009 4:12am
Quoting psiholog
there has been alot of talk about no stop loss in this thread recently. i will share my views on such tactics as in my 1 year and 3 month career, at least 12 months out of that entire time i used no stop loss. to best do this...i will select a few months


in april i had 37 winning trades and 3 losses...this is using no stop loss.
in may...i had 57winning trades and absolutely no losses. none. zero.

during this entire time i had increased my account by 200%..100% each month. (all sub 1000$ as such % gains in larger accounts are impossible...proper...

Could have been prevented by using proper MM and manually exiting poor trades for a loss.
  • #75,462
  • Mar 14, 2009 4:21am Mar 14, 2009 4:21am
Quoting psiholog

THis all brings me to my last 2 months. 50pip stop loss on all trades. My win loss ratio is not as high as the 57wins no losses month i had (just half a year after i started live). Yet...my account continues to grow..no matter how many losses i have in a row...i can just reenter again whenever i please...no waiting required..no time wasted...and the profits themselves outnumber the losess.
PERFECT
New voice message: Why are you calling me? If I need you, I'll call you!
  • #75,463
  • Mar 14, 2009 6:26am Mar 14, 2009 6:26am
Quoting dysan4x
Sunday/Monday I am looking for the exit without too much of a loss. I am still bearish looking for parity in the future, but I think I hitched up Gators mules to Drivers cart a little early.
Hope you will trade smart next time - fundamentals is one thing, but technical is the way should looking on charts. Market do what it wants, full of emotions, stress, panic, losses and profit's and so... do not follow experts, do not folllows economic data, they do not show you the true of the things.

All things are different at it seems at first vision. And, be smart..
Wish you a lot of great moments with those you love.
  • #75,464
  • Mar 14, 2009 8:01am Mar 14, 2009 8:01am
Quoting psiholog
there has been alot of talk about no stop loss in this thread recently. i will share my views on such tactics as in my 1 year and 3 month career, at least 12 months out of that entire time i used no stop loss. to best do this...i will select a few months


in april i had 37 winning trades and 3 losses...this is using no stop loss.
in may...i had 57winning trades and absolutely no losses. none. zero.

during this entire time i had increased my account by 200%..100% each month. (all sub 1000$ as such % gains in larger accounts are impossible...proper...
Hey psi,

I could have written that.

For my first 3 months I used no s/l's and my account also more than tripled in size. I thought hey this is easy.

When a trade went against me I'd just freeze hoping it would come back, and it usually did - LOL.

But you are so right, its not about the money - its about time - In the past I wasted so much time watching trades go against me - hoping they would turn round and missed the trades I should have made.

So now, like you I set stops - every time.

I guess sometimes we just have to learn the hard way, but hopefully everyone reading this will take note.
  • #75,465
  • Mar 14, 2009 8:38am Mar 14, 2009 8:38am
Greetings from Malaysia...

Hello everyone...

Ive been reading this thread for quite sometime ..and i just want to thank all of you for all the educational post. ive learn new things everyday.

  • #75,466
  • Mar 14, 2009 8:43am Mar 14, 2009 8:43am
Quoting psiholog
there has been alot of talk about no stop loss in this thread recently. i will share my views on such tactics as in my 1 year and 3 month career, at least 12 months out of that entire time i used no stop loss. to best do this...i will select a few months


in april i had 37 winning trades and 3 losses...this is using no stop loss.
in may...i had 57winning trades and absolutely no losses. none. zero.

during this entire time i had increased my account by 200%..100% each month. (all sub 1000$ as such % gains in larger accounts are impossible...proper...
I agree 100% with what you said here, Psi. It mirrors my problems. I make 10 great trades and then, 1 bad trade with no stop loss. Funny that you said was supposed to be a scalp. Sure enough, it's been the quickest "little" trades without SL that got me in trouble.

How do I correct this, so that I can continue to learn and begin to make money on Forex? First, make better trade decisions. In the end, the bad trades I made were just that - bad trades. Study the longer-term charts and make better trades, I will. BUT, for those bad ones that are going to come, I MUST have the self-discipline to use a well-conceived Stop Loss. What do I mean by "well-conceived"?
- Set my SL no farther out than sound money management (2-3.5% for me) will allow.
- Use smaller lot sizes so that I can afford SLs that are needed for the TF I choose to trade in.
- Set SLs on the other side of strong resistance and support, and lastly,
- on "no-brainer", "bounce-expected" type trades, set an SL so small that it's a 1 or a 0 (in binary terms) - win or lose quickly - and then move my SL to break-even as soon as possible.

Yesterday, I moved SL to even at +7. That trade, because it was a good trade in the first place, got to +35 before falling back to award me +22 PIPs.

My two cents. Thanks for that honest post Psi.
Up or down, gimme a ticket
  • #75,467
  • Mar 14, 2009 9:34am Mar 14, 2009 9:34am
Quoting psiholog
there has been alot of talk about no stop loss in this thread recently. i will share my views on such tactics as in my 1 year and 3 month career, at least 12 months out of that entire time i used no stop loss. to best do this...i will select a few months


in april i had 37 winning trades and 3 losses...this is using no stop loss.
in may...i had 57winning trades and absolutely no losses. none. zero.

during this entire time i had increased my account by 200%..100% each month. (all sub 1000$ as such % gains in larger accounts are impossible...proper...
Been there! The other option is you maintain a risk tolerance level and manually pull the plug in the best interest of preserving capital. You got to be able to pull the plug, though, and that can be tough. Edit: I think about some long positions I had in the Pound around 2.20...imagine if I didn't suck it up and take those losses quickly and instead tried to average into that vortex? An eye to fundamentals helps keep things in perspective on laddered positions.
  • #75,468
  • Mar 14, 2009 9:44am Mar 14, 2009 9:44am
Thanks for those really useful posts, SpecialEd and Psiholog.

On top of what you said, being waiting for a trade to enter into a positive area spends lots of "psychological" resources, since you are stepping into the "what's gonna happen" territory. If it goes bad, you feel poor. If it finally goes well, you breath but it is the worst thing could happen. You feel out of control, and those pips are not "clean" ones, nor to be proud of.

In my opinion, this is like climbing the mountains: you always have to control the situation. If you feel there is a reasonable chance that you will not reach the summit before dusk, or that you will be hanging the rope, it is definitely time not to try.

To me, stop losses are ESSENTIAL, and the way to set them is a critical subject to be mastered. Important issue to keep in mind on a whole trading life.

But I guess this does not contribute too much: plain common sense.
  • #75,469
  • Mar 14, 2009 9:57am Mar 14, 2009 9:57am
price check

eur/usd now 1.2927
  • #75,470
  • Mar 14, 2009 11:05am Mar 14, 2009 11:05am
Quoting ak4x
Your reply confused me as it seemed somehow you thought I was at odds with you...

The bold print above is the only thing i was replying to and you're correct that is sort of the intent of the G20 meeting, as I understand it anyway, so nothing personal to do with you. I rather enjoyed reading the rest of your first post, I agree with it in the main, and have no idea what to make of your reply. It sounded like you thought otherwise.... but no worries.
I did not think you were disagreeing with me.. rather I thought you are suggesting that I have assumed that they are going to come to an agreement.. I did disagree with your assessment of swizzy ..
Here is the reason why I am concerned about the whole thing..
Last year Goldman Sachs (sucks) came up with an analysis that Newzealand is having extreme financial problems. This from a guy at GS who was in NZ wrote in the major news paper.
So the pair NU dropped few hundred pips. Which only suggests lot of people got on board for short selling with limited SL (Mainly folks like us here) .
Day or two later NZ cut their tax rate by one basis point. Which shot up the NU pair by few hundred pips. People lost lots of money.. the ones with SL at least. There is no way in the world NZ decided to reduce their interest rates in one day. I am sure it was in the works for sometime. Something sure didn't smell right. Since then, I have become skeptical of this "News Plantation" But again depending entirely on the technicals also is also not good in my opinion.
Here is a good way to look at the news behind the news
http://www.ft.com/cms/bfba2c48-5588-...0779fd2ac.html
  • #75,471
  • Mar 14, 2009 11:54am Mar 14, 2009 11:54am
I find it very interesting and helpful, all this discussion of stop loss vs. no stop loss. I too have had my worst trades come in the form of a scalp that goes the wrong way, and so I wait. Right now, in fact I have a short in the .2902 area that I was not planning on holding over the weekend, but I held hoping that it would come back to profit before the 10 point Oanda spread hit. No such luck. So I guess that I am somebody in the "what's going to happen" boat this weekend as I wait wondering if it will gap in my favor, wondering if and when it is that I should cut my losses, wondering if I should place a stop loss now in case of a bad gap the wrong way, wondering what kind of positive trade I will have to make next week to make up for anything I lose Sunday night should it go the wrong way. It has put a hamper on my weekend that's for sure.

On the other side of the coin I just always feel that my stop loss will get hit before my TP in every circumstance. Sometimes it feels like Oanda is watching my screen and saying "Doniboy has a 30 pip SL, spike up and grab it real quick"...I know that Oanada is not attacking me, it just feels like it sometimes. What makes it worse is that Oanada does not offer trailing stops so unless I manually adjust it every SL that gets hit will be a loss.

Sorry, just venting about my week that started great an ended...well we'll see Sunday night.
  • #75,472
  • Mar 14, 2009 11:58am Mar 14, 2009 11:58am
Quoting TIckerShuffl
If bernanke says FED will buy treasuries in and instance where china won't...could be interesting.
Interesting in how long it will take Congress to tell WalMart to stop sourcing in China.

The "Depression" will really take hold if all kinds of protectionism take hold.

And how about the Swiss doing a little intervention on Friday.

Mo, mo, mo interesting.
  • #75,473
  • Mar 14, 2009 12:05pm Mar 14, 2009 12:05pm
Quoting Doniboy
...
On the other side of the coin I just always feel that my stop loss will get hit before my TP in every circumstance. Sometimes it feels like Oanda is watching my screen and saying "Doniboy has a 30 pip SL, spike up and grab it real quick"...
Pssst... "Don't Tell Anyone how much you are willing to Risk."
Just Stick.
to the Plan Man.

If you are looking to Order, Place Limit, Place Stop & walk away, this is gonna be a rollercoaster ride.

It's Your Money. Watch it all you can.

I understand that not everyone has the ability to stay tuned with the Market but that does not negate your responsibility to You & Yours. Adapt.
  • #75,474
  • Mar 14, 2009 12:05pm Mar 14, 2009 12:05pm
I offered pdf books on candlestick earlier in the week and seeing how it is now the weekend if anyone wants them please send me a PM.

you must have a gmail account for these as they are large in size.....do not respond to me if you do not have a gmail account.

I will send these out tomorrow, after tomorrow it will be too late, during trading it ties up my system too long to send them.

in your PM please add your email address, make this easy on me or I will delete your request.
Don't chase the market, Let the market come to you
  • #75,475
  • Mar 14, 2009 12:46pm Mar 14, 2009 12:46pm
Quoting psiholog
there has been alot of talk about no stop loss in this thread recently. .......no matter what strategy...no stop loss eventually wiped out my account on repeated occasions. .
Psi, my knowledge of currency trading may be nothing as compared to your and many on this forum, but I feel no fear in saying that CURRENCY TRADING IS ALL ABOUT MASTERING STOP-LOSSES ....... and, there is whole world in there if we opt to explore. Hedging, anti-hedging are all part of it. This to me is what some people refer to as the holy grail (or Risk Management).
The Thief of Wall Street
  • #75,476
  • Mar 14, 2009 1:02pm Mar 14, 2009 1:02pm
I'm not sure how much debate there actually is regarding stoplosses. Most people will agree that they are a necessity. I'm just one of the very few that doesn't follow that mentality.

I think it also comes down to your trading methods. Obviously it works for some people to use SL's. For me, it doesn't. Just goes to show you that there's no "right way" to trade. That's how we can see people on this forum going long while others are shorting, and in the end we can have people in both camps making money (which is really what it's all about in the end anyway.)
  • #75,477
  • Mar 14, 2009 1:10pm Mar 14, 2009 1:10pm
Quoting Doniboy

On the other side of the coin I just always feel that my stop loss will get hit before my TP in every circumstance. Sometimes it feels like Oanda is watching my screen and saying "Doniboy has a 30 pip SL, spike up and grab it real quick"...I know that Oanada is not attacking me, it just feels like it sometimes. What makes it worse is that Oanada does not offer trailing stops so unless I manually adjust it every SL that gets hit will be a loss.
This is a common way to feel but you must understand that it's not Oanda's fault. They're just matching buyer and seller at YOUR specified price.

When you place a SL you're effectively placing an open order. You're telling someone on the other side of the trade "here, this is what you can buy me out for, and it doesn't matter to me that I'm losing X amount of money to do it." You can't blame Oanda for filling the order, or the trader that took you up on your offer when you offered them your item for less than anyone else was willing to take for it.

If the goal is to make money here, why would you openly offer a buyer to take your item for less than anyone else is willing to take for it? Especially if it means you're losing money to make that happen? That just doesn't make sense to me.

The entire idea of a stoploss to me is like playing cards while having one of the cards in your hand facing all the other players. Why put yourself at that disadvantage?
  • #75,478
  • Mar 14, 2009 1:14pm Mar 14, 2009 1:14pm
Quoting Doniboy
I find it very interesting and helpful, all this discussion of stop loss vs. no stop loss. I too have had my worst trades come in the form of a scalp that goes the wrong way, and so I wait. Right now, in fact I have a short in the .2902 area that I was not planning on holding over the weekend, but I held hoping that it would come back to profit before the 10 point Oanda spread hit. No such luck. So I guess that I am somebody in the "what's going to happen" boat this weekend as I wait wondering if it will gap in my favor, wondering if and when...
I can relate Doniboy. All newer traders (this one included!) have felt like "the software has eyes" and our stops are being targeted. I used to think that a lot, and I do think big moves take place to close out a bunch of stops from time, but for the most part, I think my stop has gotten hit because of the reasons I mentioned earlier. I either chose a bad trade or I did not use a small enough lot size to be able to afford a bigger stop loss, or I arbitrarily chose my stop loss instead of looking at some significant resistance or support.

When we start looking at longer TFs than M5/M1, I think we'll know better where to trade and apply TPs and SLs.

My two cents.
Up or down, gimme a ticket
  • #75,479
  • Mar 14, 2009 1:19pm Mar 14, 2009 1:19pm
Quoting F.x.
If the goal is to make money here, why would you openly offer a buyer to take your item for less than anyone else is willing to take for it? Especially if it means you're losing money to make that happen? That just doesn't make sense to me.

The entire idea of a stoploss to me is like playing cards while having one of the cards in your hand facing all the other players. Why put yourself at that disadvantage?
Ok friend, I've read two consecutive posts from you about not using stops. It would be beneficial if you would tell us how you trade successfully without setting stops. For example, do you control it manually and actually have the self-discipline to "pull the plug" when a trade goes awry? Do you trade with small enough lot sizes or big enough accounts that you don't need to worry? Do you hedge? Or, do you just always choose the right trade?

These questions may sound a bit sarcastic, but I'd really like to hear your alternatives. I think it would be helpful to a lot of traders.

Thanks,
Ed
Up or down, gimme a ticket
  • #75,480
  • Mar 14, 2009 1:25pm Mar 14, 2009 1:25pm
I use no T/P as I believe in the "let your profits run" philosophy.

I also believe in minimizing risks. So I do use a S/L.

So I always end up getting stopped out of a trade.

I'm I the only one who uses a S/L for the opposite of what it's designed for?
Not all sins are created equal
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