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daytrading 5min charts.

  • #1
  • First Post: Feb 18, 2009 10:15pm Feb 18, 2009 10:15pm
I HAVE been trading for about 2 years now, i began with the stockmarket and i managed to make some money but now i have switchedover to forex, however i have been unable to be profitable.

i really wnat to day trading the 1 and/or 5 min charts, however i cant seem to be consistentaly profitable.

i have been using strickly price action with the odd moving aveerage and been trading based on trendlines, s&r and all that other good stuff, but the choppiness of the 5min eurusd really causes me problems.

does anyone feel like sharing how they trade the 5min or 1min charts? i have tried tons and tons of systems in the trading systems forum here on FF but NONE have worked for me.

please dont tell me to go to longer term 1hr 4hr 1day charts because i really am not very good at keeping focused on checking the charts every day when i dont make a trade for a week or more and just seeing 1 new bar each day.

i have been waking up at 5am eastern time each dayto trade for hours and hours on end until the volume dies down on the eurusd, have read books, e-books, websites, magazines and the stars, and i cant seem to make money on the shortterm charts.

please let me know what your guys favorite systems are, i am especially interested on price action trading, if you have any good e-books or name of books,websites or threads on short term price action trading, or some good charts to post feel free.
  • #2
  • Feb 18, 2009 10:25pm Feb 18, 2009 10:25pm
I spent a couple of years looking for exactly what you are now, didnt find anything I could prove to be a good trading method.

Now I sometimes take a couple of days data in to consideration before making a trade.

If you find anything, then do also let me know.

Good luck.....
Living the adventure in my head.
  • #3
  • Feb 18, 2009 11:02pm Feb 18, 2009 11:02pm
Quoting Leonlorenzo
I spent a couple of years looking for exactly what you are now, didnt find anything I could prove to be a good trading method.

Now I sometimes take a couple of days data in to consideration before making a trade.

If you find anything, then do also let me know.

Good luck.....
me 2..


pop
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  • #4
  • Feb 19, 2009 3:44am Feb 19, 2009 3:44am
Quoting nikolaou
I HAVE been trading for about 2 years now, i began with the stockmarket and i managed to make some money but now i have switchedover to forex, however i have been unable to be profitable.

i really wnat to day trading the 1 and/or 5 min charts, however i cant seem to be consistentaly profitable.

i have been using strickly price action with the odd moving aveerage and been trading based on trendlines, s&r and all that other good stuff, but the choppiness of the 5min eurusd really causes me problems.

does anyone feel like sharing how they trade...
Check out FxStreet.com
Do a search for Rob Booker, he has some excellent (free) support and resistance webinars archived there.

Here is a s/r trade I just closed on e/u
The green horizontal line was resistance formed by a double top.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: e5.gif Size: 22 KB
  • #5
  • Feb 19, 2009 8:37am Feb 19, 2009 8:37am
Quoting nikolaou
please dont tell me to go to longer term 1hr 4hr 1day charts because i really am not very good at keeping focused on checking the charts every day when i dont make a trade for a week or more and just seeing 1 new bar each day.
You obviously never traded the Daily Chart. So what qualifies you to
post such nonsense? Oh yeah I'm glued to the screen all the time to manage my positions...like 10 minutes a day. You will get a good
trade setup every 1-2 days on one pair.

No wonder you are not profitbale with a mindset like that.
  • #6
  • Feb 19, 2009 1:24pm Feb 19, 2009 1:24pm
tjalp i think he mean its too slow for him waiting waiting ..and he prefer to sit at the screen
StopLoss is for none belivers... Trust the Gurus..
  • #7
  • Feb 19, 2009 1:31pm Feb 19, 2009 1:31pm
Yes it can be quite painful having a position which keeps gaining more and more money over days and you only have to lock in some profit 2-3 time a day for 10 minutes and play golf the rest of the day.
I'd probably rather lose my ass trading 10 nanoseconds charts and getting whipsawed and frustrated all the time.
  • #8
  • Feb 19, 2009 3:08pm Feb 19, 2009 3:08pm
i guess its all about temper..(hope i spelled it right..)lol

i my self are too impatince for longer timeframes than 5 min..
then rather be frustratet..
StopLoss is for none belivers... Trust the Gurus..
  • #9
  • Feb 19, 2009 3:47pm Feb 19, 2009 3:47pm
I would recommend switching to 110 tick and 440 tick and target 3-6 pips per trade. I started trading 3 weeks back and with inital losses on 5 min and 15 minute i have managed to regain my money back. I use MACD BB indicator with large and small triggers to get in trades. Platform i use is Ninja traders. If one is ready to take extra risks(perhaps stop loss of 15 pips) i believe one can go for 20-30 pips per session. I only use a stop loss of 5 pips however i trade the euro index. Since i am new to trading i dont target more than 10 pips.

Current Strategy:

1. Check if small triggers are closing in upward direction on 110 chart(buy signal)
2. Check if macdbb breaks out of BB in upward direction on 110 chart(buy signal)
3. For further confirmation if 440 tick chart breaks out of BB in upward direction its a confirm trade(buy) dont even need a stop loss for most of time becz out of my 27 trades i was in market only for average of 2 mins
4. Viceversa for selling
  • #10
  • Feb 19, 2009 4:27pm Feb 19, 2009 4:27pm
Quote
I use MACD BB indicator with large and small triggers

What are 'large and small triggers'? I am not familiar with the term.

Thanks
Che
  • #11
  • Feb 19, 2009 4:49pm Feb 19, 2009 4:49pm
They are customized support and resistance levels. However, small triggers represent a quick outcome of the market whereas large triggers represent your trend strength and also are esstential support and resistance levels. Further, i have custom MACDBB which provides detail regarding momentum strength.
  • #12
  • Feb 19, 2009 5:11pm Feb 19, 2009 5:11pm
Quoting Tjpld
Yes it can be quite painful having a position which keeps gaining more and more money over days and you only have to lock in some profit 2-3 time a day for 10 minutes and play golf the rest of the day.
I'd probably rather lose my ass trading 10 nanoseconds charts and getting whipsawed and frustrated all the time.

canny bite that. Joined the forum 2 months & tjpld is the third trader i find that look at small tf trading the same way as i do. I've been trading for 2 years, this is going to be the third. Wasted a good half of my trading experience blowing up my account trading small tf, 10 months back to the drawing board demo & managed to create a long tf trading setup. Back trading now on live for 3 months with no drawdowns at all. Now I know it's each for it's own but & I know many traders who trade small tf & make good returns. But I know many more who don't.
95% traders fail. I don't know if that 95% forex traders or it's 95% traders in general. But I know that out of that 95% that fails almost a 100% overtrade.
Now if you've been trading for a while now, you'll know what overtrading can do to your account. I found it the hard way. (mind you, being malaysian, losing 15 thousand american dollars was a lot of money for me).
I'm sorry but trade small tf has more cons than pros. You're likely to overtrade. There's too much noise, you're likely to get whipsawed like tjpld mentioned. And during news, god help you with small tf setup.
I've not had this problems trading larger tf. It's not without it's downside. The probability of losing is always present, but if you can keep your trading frequencies to a minimum, overtrading will be out of the picture & mistakes will be kept to a minimum.
Now I've read somewhere in this forum someone said forex isn't a get rich quick scheme, it's a get poor quick scheme. True to a certain extent.
Nikolaou, you might want to reevaluate your position if you plan to stay in this business long enough.
Sorry for the long reply by the way.
Cheers.
Thank You
  • #13
  • Feb 19, 2009 7:15pm Feb 19, 2009 7:15pm
hey guys thanks for all the helpful posts, and i will definately check out the S&R tutorials that guy mentioned.

Quoting Tjpld
You obviously never traded the Daily Chart. So what qualifies you to
post such nonsense? Oh yeah I'm glued to the screen all the time to manage my positions...like 10 minutes a day. You will get a good
trade setup every 1-2 days on one pair.

No wonder you are not profitbale with a mindset like that.

tjpld, you may have misunderstood me, i tradedstocks for about one year and i only traded the daily charts and had pretty good success, however, i had about 40 different stocks that i would check each day and would make a day every 1-2 days spening about 30min a day actually on the computer.

in forex, i do not have as many pairs to scan and i find it very difficult to be checking back each day on my 5 or 10 pairs and not have much to do for days at a time sometimes.

i have tried going down to say 1 or 4hr charts, but i found that when i would see a setup like a head and shoulders or symetrical triangle forming, i would not always be able to be at the computer when the pattern completed becuase i was sleeping or at school etc. and this proved to be a problem more often then it wasnt, which is why i really want to make the 1or5 min TF happen. i am a student with only certain times of the day where i am able to trade, and luckally those hours coincide with the later london hours and the first 75% of the US session. all i do is wake up at 4or5am EST and trade untill i have to go to school.


asfor the guy who was talkking about tick charts, i use MT4 and i wanted to try tickcharts a month or so ago so i downloaded ThinkOrSwim and i used there 256(i think) tick charts (which is sthe minimum) on a demo which is real time and it was off from my MT4 by a couple of seconds but i am still experimenting with trying ThinkOrSwim demo charts with MT4 execution
  • #14
  • Feb 19, 2009 8:09pm Feb 19, 2009 8:09pm
Want to add on the tick charts. Attached image shows the trading setup i use for trading. The strategy i mentioned in my earlier post if the market falls below small triggers on 110 tick chart and macd moves out of the lower BB then its a good opportunity to go short and the opposite is true for long. However, there are other things one needs to take into consideration as well before pressing enter that is ensure that 4hour chart and 30 min charts are going in the same direction. Since small triggers represent momentum and one must always trade with the momentum.

Other important point to note that on a 4hour,30 minute chart we must know where the previous lows and highs are. For instance if a market is going down then in the 4 hour chart we should know where the previous swing high was which can now act as a potential support. Thus if we are in a short trade we should target identified support points from 4h,30min and 24 hour calculated pivot points. Most important if charts dont align then do not trade.

To sum up:

1) if 4h,30 min charts aligh representing downtrend use tick charts and wait for the market to go under small triggers and target next important pivot point. Stop can be put at 15 pips away from point of action. And forget the word buy till the trend does not finish.

2) Opposite for going long
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: tickcharts.jpg Size: 299 KB
  • #15
  • Feb 20, 2009 1:30am Feb 20, 2009 1:30am
Quoting ajanjua
Want to add on the tick charts. Attached image shows the trading setup i use for trading. The strategy i mentioned in my earlier post if the market falls below small triggers on 110 tick chart and macd moves out of the lower BB then its a good opportunity to go short and the opposite is true for long. However, there are other things one needs to take into consideration as well before pressing enter that is ensure that 4hour chart and 30 min charts are going in the same direction. Since small triggers represent momentum and one must always trade...
Hi, Can you kindly make your indicators available to me? You can email them to me. Thank you.
  • #16
  • Feb 20, 2009 1:35am Feb 20, 2009 1:35am
You will get killed trading indicators sooner then you will start feeling the market.
  • #17
  • Feb 20, 2009 2:00am Feb 20, 2009 2:00am
IMO there is no right or wrong time frame to trade - its whatever YOU are comfortable with and which suits what you are trying to achieve and the time that you have available to trade.

It is obvious that you can expect more entries from trading the shorter time frames and therefore you will have more opportunities for loosing - or winning - trades.

I also agree with Belekas that its better to forget indicators and concentrate on Price Action. Once you put in the time and effort to study PA with Support and Resistance you will find that indicators are superfluous.

Take a look at this thread and EV's posts and you'll see what I mean...http://www.forexfactory.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...98028&page=120

Good luck!
Trading Levels with WRBs
  • #18
  • Feb 20, 2009 2:04am Feb 20, 2009 2:04am
Nice to see you Islander and yes Price Action is king and s&r is the key. Once you decrypt the message whole new world of trading will open.

Quoting Islander
IMO there is no right or wrong time frame to trade - its whatever YOU are comfortable with and which suits what you are trying to achieve and the time that you have available to trade.

It is obvious that you can expect more entries from trading the shorter time frames and therefore you will have more opportunities for loosing - or winning - trades.

I also agree with Belekas that its better to forget indicators and concentrate on Price Action....
  • #19
  • Feb 20, 2009 2:22am Feb 20, 2009 2:22am
Quoting belekas
Nice to see you Islander and yes Price Action is king and s&r is the key. Once you decrypt the message whole new world of trading will open.
Can you please elaborate on why price action is King???? S&R is the key of what?
Trading is the game of fear and greed.
  • #20
  • Feb 20, 2009 2:40am Feb 20, 2009 2:40am
Quoting Fx chartist
Can you please elaborate on why price action is King???? S&R is the key of what?
Babypips.com have is all covered Fx chartist. Price moves between lines creating patterns and on its way it meets support and resistance. The key is to identify those patterns and s&r levels so that you could trade them and make profit.
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