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The Force 5min system

  • #2,081
  • Jan 23, 2009 1:48am Jan 23, 2009 1:48am
Quoting Big Weir
Just so I know I'm understanding the system could some one tell me if this was a trade, base on what I've read I believe it was and looks like its going to run.

Cheers Big Weir
Yes you got it.

Feel free to join the chat room, see under forexjedi's signature for the link.
  • #2,082
  • Jan 23, 2009 7:42am Jan 23, 2009 7:42am
Hi,

I am posting my checklist when trading on Trading Bounces using the Force system.


Cheers!
Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf checklist.pdf   34 KB | 1,173 downloads
Pivot Boss in the making~
  • #2,083
  • Jan 23, 2009 7:49am Jan 23, 2009 7:49am
Price has been hovering at the support. Created a double bottom, went up but couldn't break 1.2975. Nearing London Open, price broke DS1 support and went down 100 pips.

This Short trade was taken when the stochs were near Oversold level.

Price will move away when it hits S/R. If it hovers there for sometime, chances are it will break. Price also created a lower low at 615 candle.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Pivot Boss in the making~
  • #2,084
  • Jan 23, 2009 9:24am Jan 23, 2009 9:24am
A perfect signal to Buy with Double Bottom at support MS1.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Pivot Boss in the making~
  • #2,085
  • Jan 23, 2009 1:43pm Jan 23, 2009 1:43pm
Quoting jurn_e
A perfect signal to Buy with Double Bottom at support MS1.
Jurn, what a great reminder about the power of monthly pivots, the resistance at MP on 9 Jan was a key reference point for the rest of the month.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: eurusd_23jan2009_mpivots.gif Size: 16 KB
  • #2,086
  • Jan 23, 2009 4:07pm Jan 23, 2009 4:07pm
As Jurn pointed out before there was a very solid base of support on monthly S1. It was not a surprise to see the euro bulls take heart and follow the US equities markets up through to the peak at 2pm ET.

I was asleep when the 16:00 basic buy signal fired but I was in on the next advanced buy signal 50 minutes later. I waited for price to come down just enough so I could fit my standard 20p stop one pip below the signal candle low. A pending 'buy limit' order allowed me to do this. 20 minutes later my +40 target was reached.

The retrace and then bounce from the exisitng TL gave another advanced buy setup which again took 20 mins to reach the +40 target. The remainder was trailed with a 20 pip Tstop (trailing stop). This was hit at 1.2970.

Seeing that price continued up above the DO (dayopen) to peak out with the S&P500 at 2pm ET makes me wonder what I could have done differently to catch the 180 + 130 pips potential profit on those two trades.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: eurusd_23jan2009_force.gif Size: 20 KB


Lessons I learned...

I can strip away a lot of lines from my chart and just focus on the here and now. OK big DB on mS1 - check, one bounce+retrace - check, force signals - check, stop in meaningful place - check, money management - check.

My personal goal to find just two 40 pip trades per 4 hour session is realistic. What derails this is my distractions going off on other tangents.

All in all another outstanding week trading the EURUSD with The Force!

ForexJedi your system invites a Calm Focus on Now!
  • #2,087
  • Jan 23, 2009 5:41pm Jan 23, 2009 5:41pm
OK, week 1 finished trading with using The Force. Granted this is only live demo work, but I don't treat it as funny money.

1. Started the week well, following just basic indicators. I missed the "big" dip on the 21st due to "real life" getting in the way. The low of the dip came within 9 points of my TP. Was still able to turn a profit on the next "mini dip".

2. All my losses were due to SL points. Was less successful on Longs than Shorts, there were good points to get in on Longs, I just wasn't active then, and the entries I did make were on weak MACD signals (as I "see" them.)

3. Question: I have one open trade that is currently in the black, should I close it before the week begins again, or should I ride the trend and trust the SL and TP to take care of any "hiccups" come week open?

4. I know it is not alot of trades. Partially this is due to my schedule, partially this is due to my conservative approach while I'm learning the system. Still +154 -50 for a net of +104 doesn't seem to bad for a nublet.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 2009JAN23 Demo Statement.jpg Size: 73 KB
  • #2,088
  • Jan 23, 2009 7:32pm Jan 23, 2009 7:32pm
Quoting robdee
As Jurn pointed out before there was a very solid base of support on monthly S1. It was not a surprise to see the euro bulls take heart and follow the US equities markets up through to the peak at 2pm ET.

I was asleep when the 16:00 basic buy signal fired but I was in on the next advanced buy signal 50 minutes later. I waited for price to come down just enough so I could fit my standard 20p stop one pip below the signal candle low. A pending 'buy limit' order allowed me to do this. 20 minutes later my +40 target was reached.

The...



hi robdee: the 16:50 GMT trade, if you set '20p stop one pip below the signal candle low', the signal bar was the 16:50 bar? If it was ,the next bar (16:55GMT) would have wiped you out. How can you do that? thank you!
  • #2,089
  • Jan 24, 2009 12:28am Jan 24, 2009 12:28am
Quoting blackmovie
hi robdee: the 16:50 GMT trade, if you set '20p stop one pip below the signal candle low', the signal bar was the 16:50 bar? If it was ,the next bar (16:55GMT) would have wiped you out. How can you do that? thank you!
The arrows print on the chart immediately after the signal bar. So the signal bar was 16:45. I wait for the signal bar to close to see if it remains valid. I put in a buy limit which didn't fill until the 16:55 candle came back down into the emas. Click the chart in my original post to see a bigger image that might make it clearer for you. RD
  • #2,090
  • Jan 24, 2009 1:18am Jan 24, 2009 1:18am
Trying to understand where Big Dog traders are placing their profit targets I have run through various test scenarios for Friday's price action.

This is a set of force signal trades essentially 'with the trend' from 02:00 to 22:00 gmt.

My testing reinforced the value of moving stop to BE (breakeven) as soon as +20 is reached. See the three sells down near the Month S1 line, they were only rescued by stops that had been moved to BE. Those three sells were worth the risk because a descending triangle pattern usually breaks down - but not this one!

I also observed that the +60 and +120 targets were in play for both shorts and longs with sharp retracements occuring at those levels. Market conditions will change I'm sure but this gives a snapshot glimpse into what the big dogs are doing.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: eurusd_23jan2009_scenario3.gif Size: 17 KB


If you want to examine these trades in exact detail you can load my template into a new EURUSD 5min chart. This is the scenario template...
Attached File(s)
File Type: tpl robdee_scenario3.tpl   12 KB | 578 downloads
  • #2,091
  • Jan 24, 2009 2:02am Jan 24, 2009 2:02am
Quoting robdee
Trying to understand where Big Dog traders are placing their profit targets I have run through various test scenarios for Friday's price action.

This is a set of force signal trades essentially 'with the trend' from 02:00 to 22:00 gmt.

My testing reinforced the value of moving stop to BE (breakeven) as soon as +20 is reached. See the three sells down near the Month S1 line, they were only rescued by stops that had been moved to BE. Those three sells were worth the risk because a descending triangle pattern usually breaks down - but not...
And also showing how profitable system is if you take some profit at +20 with stop then moved to BE.

Rob I also like your entries where your stop is 1 pip below set up candle with a pending order as per an earlier post.
  • #2,092
  • Jan 24, 2009 1:38pm Jan 24, 2009 1:38pm
1) The indicator was developed on the basis of the Widners Oscilator indicator.


2) The horizontal lines (WSO from 1 to 6 red lines of support and WRO from 1 to 6 blue lines of resistance)


3) The trend lines are built not with the fractals, but with the points of uprising of WSO or WRO


4) The trend lines Trend UP0 and Trend DN0 sometimes intersect and form a triangle. The angle of the triangle points at the target of the price movement and the approximate time when the price will be near this level. (the observation showed that the prcie reaches it earlier by 1-3 bars)


5) If the price passes above or below the last WSO/WRO point, the target will be cancelled. For better understanding have a look at the point 3 on the screenshot.


6) If the price doesn't surpass the angle of the triangle, then it is the signal of trend reverse (a high time to enter the market)


7) The break through of any line by the price upward/downward demonstrates if the price will continue its movement in the same direction.



In general, all the observations can not be described at a time, may be I forgot something, if so, I will add it. If you have any question, write at my forum http://www.expert-mt4.nm.ru/forum.dhtml (there is no point in private messages, I'll get tired answering one and the same)
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: ind-wso-wro-trendline.gif Size: 97 KB
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 Ind-WSO+WRO+Trend_Line.mq4   5 KB | 710 downloads
  • #2,093
  • Jan 24, 2009 7:09pm Jan 24, 2009 7:09pm
Hi All,

Just thought this was interesting, as I said in a previous post I trade patterns. Well after reviewing friday nights session I noticed something that was of interest to me and may be of some help to others in here also what I found was a Gartely pattern at the end of the Bearish move on the EUR, Now some may think, AND?? Well to see a Gartley at the and of a trend like this is a very good indication of a reversal of the current trend and as you can see once the gartley was complete then EUR rallied significantly.

Now If you bought in at the begining of the pattern according to the Basic Rules you would have made some good pip's, what the gartley is telling me on completion is I need to have a bullish mindset and maybe looking at trading according to the Expert Rules and just add to my position.

Though this won't change how the force system works I felt it may help to better see whats happening in the market.


Cheers

Big Weir
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Force 5 gartley.jpg Size: 232 KB
  • #2,094
  • Jan 24, 2009 8:29pm Jan 24, 2009 8:29pm
Quoting Big Weir
...what the gartley is telling me on completion is I need to have a bullish mindset and maybe looking at trading according to the Expert Rules and just add to my position.
BigW, Thanks for your thoughtful post about the Gartley pattern. I needed something at that point to shift my mind from defensive targets to larger 'force expert' style targets as you say.

Is there a price projection that comes from the Gartley pattern ?

Also, is the Gartley on your chart drawn using a tool that comes with DealBook? It is rather cool and I'd like to see something like that for MT4. RD
  • #2,095
  • Jan 24, 2009 8:38pm Jan 24, 2009 8:38pm
Quoting maihua
1) The indicator was developed on the basis of the Widners Oscilator indicator.
Maihua, what is the relevance to The Force 5min system? Are you advertising something?

Looking at your chart the prices are not even recent EURUSD.

The Force 5min indicators are fully described in Post #1.

RD
  • #2,096
  • Edited 8:47pm Jan 24, 2009 8:41pm | Edited 8:47pm
Quoting robdee
BigW, Thanks for your thoughtful post about the Gartley pattern. I needed something at that point to shift my mind from defensive targets to larger 'force expert' style targets as you say.

Is there a price projection that comes from the Gartley pattern ?

Also, is the Gartley on your chart drawn using a tool that comes with DealBook? It is rather cool and I'd like to see something like that for MT4. RD
As for a price projection no theres not. But yes the Gartley tool comes with a GFT demo account, but to get it on a live acc. you need open an acc. with 3k

You can upload a programe called ZUP for MT4 it identifies them for you.
  • #2,097
  • Jan 24, 2009 9:58pm Jan 24, 2009 9:58pm
Robdee,

I know this has nothing to do with force 5 trading, but just to clarify, though I said that there's no projection for a gartley, you need to use fibs to identify possible targets. See how the market has reacted to certain fib levels from the gartley.

If this pattern occured on an hrly chart I would have place an initial profit objective at the 382 of the fib pulled from the gartley completion to the top of the gartley, as this was the first fib to meet the trend line, and run a 382 trailing stop (distance from the 382 to my buy in) once the initial profit was achieved. The second fib is pulled from the top of the Gartley to the bottom. As you can see there was reactions at the 382, 786, 127 and the 224 fib levels of the pattern. I see the market react to the 127 extension all the time so I like to take some profit here though I also will note that the 113 fib reaction can show a failure of a wave and reverse from there.

Hope this has helped you a bit. Pattern trading can be difficult and would only trade them on larger time frames.

However in this system they may be a useful tool to change bullish/bearish mindset on the current trend especially if all other indicators are saying the same thing.

Regards

Big Weir
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #2,098
  • Edited 5:54am Jan 25, 2009 5:18am | Edited 5:54am
The cup is a saucer-shape consolidation (consolidating rounded double bottom at MS1), and the handle is a short pullback followed by a breakout.

A classic cup and handle pattern as it forms at the pivot point support target MS1.This is the essence of an accumulation period. It tires and bores traders; and as the handle forms, it scare traders into exiting longs or, even worse, going short at support. It is this period of consolidation that creates indecision. Once prices take off, it causes shorts to run like mad for cover.

The height of the cup which is actually around 110 pips is used to determine or predict the minimum upside price objective. The predicted 110 pips upside price objective is also very very near Daily Pivot 1.2998 the next resistance!!

I used round number 100 pips instead of 110 in my picture is because its easier to see and remember.

Hope this helps in predicting price moves. Comments on this please. Thanks.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: log14.gif Size: 29 KB
Pivot Boss in the making~
  • #2,099
  • Edited 9:04am Jan 25, 2009 5:42am | Edited 9:04am
There is a breakout of 1.2885 resistance (cup).

Wait for a Two Period close above resistance to confirm breakout.
Candle 1720 and 1725 has broken resistance but no Force signals so its better to stay out.
Whereas candle 1745 and 1750 is also a Two Period Close above resistance. As you can see the Force signals also confirms the move. Buy at 1755 candle open. Apply rule with Force = high probability!

Force 5 min is Awesome!!!
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: log17.gif Size: 25 KB
Pivot Boss in the making~
  • #2,100
  • Jan 25, 2009 5:59am Jan 25, 2009 5:59am
Hello all,

New to the force system, and thought I would post to introduce myself! I'll be sure to post some of my trades this week with hopes of some good feedback!
Regards, M. "No one ever went broke by taking a profit"
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