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The DIBS Method... No Free Lunch continues

  • #3,941
  • Jul 16, 2008 12:53pm Jul 16, 2008 12:53pm
Quoting Alberto_Jazz
Finally I hope to have solved the problem about multiple orders.

I use this simple bool variable to recognise the new bar:

if( Volume[0] == 1 ) {NumOrder_Long = 0 ;}
if( Volume[0] == 1 ) {NumOrder_Short = 0 ;}

Try this and let me know!
Thank you!
My approach is... I use the current Candle time (Time[0] which gives the open time) and compare with the time of the opened position if any.

so before opening a position I'll always have my EA loop through current trades and check for matching symbol and magic number, blah blah...
Inserted Code
if (Time[0] <= OrderOpenTime())
{
   return (false);
}
else
{
   return (true);
}

I also loop through trades in history just in case, a trade has opened and close out within the same candle and the candle hasn't close yet.

your method is probably less cpu intensive. but I've been using my method for quite a while and it works fine. helps me make my EA work on all timeframes. Just something to consider. cheers and happy trading.

Zen
Programming for a better future.
  • #3,942
  • Jul 16, 2008 1:08pm Jul 16, 2008 1:08pm
Quoting Nick_likes_pips
now THATS what DIBS is about baby!!! haha. took 2/3 position out at 1 to 1, last portion of the position is still running. that was sexy.

Hope you guys got a piece of the action as well.
Hi Nick, could ya tell me what time was that uk when that trade triggered pls...?!
  • #3,943
  • Edited Jul 17, 2008 1:17pm Jul 16, 2008 1:33pm | Edited Jul 17, 2008 1:17pm
ok this is probably quite overdued... I was just trying to get my EA as robust as possible before letting it out in the open. and before I know it, I'm at version 6...

extern int DIBS_MAGIC_NUM = 121212;
extern int iOpenHour = 6; // Euro Opening
extern int HoursToTrade = 6; // active hours to monitor (recommended 9-10)
extern int iOpenHour2 = 12; // US Opening
extern int HoursToTrade2 = 8; // active hours to monitor (recommended 9-10)
extern int MinIBarHeight = 10;
extern int MaxIBarHeight = 50;
extern bool EqualOpen = true;
extern int SignalMargin = 1;
extern int CustomSpread = 0;
extern double Slippage = 3.0;
extern int OrderExpirationMinutes = 120;
extern double TPfactor = 1;
extern int TakeProfit = 0; // if 0, use IB for take profit
extern int StopLoss = 0; // if 0, use IB for stop loss
extern bool MoveToBE = false;
extern bool OpenSecondaryOrder = false; // whether or not to open addition position to have no TP.
extern double SecondaryTPfactor = 2;
extern int SecondaryTakeProfit = 0;
extern int SecondaryStopLoss = 0;
extern bool SecondaryMoveToBE = true;
extern bool MoneyManagement = true;
extern double RiskPercent = 1;
extern double Lots = 0.1;
extern double MaxLots = 15.0;
extern double MinLots = 0.01;
extern bool UseParachuteStop = false;
extern double ParachuteStopPercent = 40;
extern bool UseFloatingStop = false;
extern double TrailingStop = 0;

the above are the default values for the input. I programmed it to allow trading of 2 sessions a day getting a different Open price to compare with. If you only want to trade 1 session, set them to the same.

MinIBarHeight and MaxIBHeight is for those of you who wouldn't want to enter a trade if the IB is too short or too long.

SignalMargin - some people tend wanna have a margin of pip difference above and below the IB when trading breakouts. set it to 0 if you're not interested.

CustomSpread is for those who wants to have their spread used to calculate the SL and TP values to be constant unaffected by news time spread widening. if set to 0, the market spread is used.

so.. to calculate a IB height in pips (for SL and TP), I use
((High[1] - Low[1]) / Point) + (2 * SignalMargin) + CustomSpread
I hope that's alright with you guys.

OrderExpirationMinutes simply means... Order Expiration Time in minutes. ok.. dumb sentence. haha.

TPFactor means how many times of SL you want your TP to have.
if you set both TakeProfit and StopLoss to 0, the IB will be used to calculate your stoploss as described above. and TPFactor gives u an option of how much higher you wan your TP over SL.

The EA also allows you to open 2 trades at once with different trade settings. you can have the primary trade have TPFactor of 1 while the secondary trade has TPFactor of 2. then use SecondaryMoveToBE = true to have it shift to break even when the position is in profit by the SL amt of pips. which should also be when primary trade has closed. set OpenSecondaryOrder to true if you wanna make use of this. but I wrote in such a way that if you open a secondary order, it'll split the lot size in 2.

MoneyManagement - if set to true, it'll use a percentage (defined by RiskPercent) along with the calculated or given stoploss value to calculate the lot size. i believe it should work on all pairs, at least the common ones. BUT this only works if your account is USD based. sorry about that. and the symbol format must be like "EURUSD". I didn't cater for those with an "m" at the back. apologies.
if you set this to false, it'll use "Lots" value as fixed lots.

MaxLots is in case your account has millions and you dun wan 1 percent to open too large a position size. great for those of you with a risk appetite not matching your pockets. =)

as for the ParachuteStops FloatingStops etc... basically my EA has 4 ways of stop management. I'll explain tomorrow. old man needs rest.

comments and suggestions are welcomed. Good luck and good trading.
Oh and goodnight.

regards,
Zen

// edit I've removed this EA cos i realised there was a typo in the code resulting in no inside bars to be found. its been fixed and the updated EA is uploaded.
Programming for a better future.
  • #3,944
  • Jul 16, 2008 2:06pm Jul 16, 2008 2:06pm
Quoting eltrader
Hi Nick, could ya tell me what time was that uk when that trade triggered pls...?!
according to my account record, it triggered at 14:36GMT.
So with daylight savings in effect, that would be 10am EST and 3:36pm in London.
- nick andre -
  • #3,945
  • Edited Jul 17, 2008 2:16pm Jul 16, 2008 9:20pm | Edited Jul 17, 2008 2:16pm
Quoting HouseTrader
.........
I'm sure Peter and TRT, after years of trading, have just given us a glimpse of what they can do with breakout systems... food for hungry minds (here comes the discretion again....). The most brainstorming point for me is when he says "not all breakouts are the same. I know which breakouts have 2 - 5 times the edge of similar-looking breakouts others take, get frustrated with, and likely lose money trading if they don't have perfect skills.' ........
HT, I can't believe there's any magic secret to it. At the end of the day they (like the rest of us) have only TA and FA at their disposal, and the concepts they use have likely been presented elsewhere (by others) on this forum. It's most likely the way that they put it all together.

Pure guesswork, trying to read between the lines:

-- the level of congestion/contraction prior to the IB (multiple narrow-range bars can lead to more explosive breakout);
-- strong S/R, or pattern like a double bottom, just below the IB would likely improve the probability of a move (for a long trade, vice versa for short);
-- strong S/R above the IB (long trade) would likely curtail the potential for a decent move (esp. since they like the concept of high RR);
-- confluence with the weekly trend/longer time frames;
-- high momentum (e.g. large bull candle(s) or hammer immediately prior to the IB), i.e. the IB merely represents a stall in a strong uptrend;
-- direction being set by the clarity of the opening daily move;
-- special consideration given to certain days of the week, or month; or key dates in the banking calendar, or futures contract expiry, etc;
-- along similar lines, perhaps an IB at a particular hour(s) of the day (during the 9-10 hour window) back-tests more profitably than others;
-- confluence with news events (e.g. price is more likely to rise following an unexpected interest rate rise);
-- trading the strongest currency (relative to USD?) long, and the weakest currency short (not sure exactly how they measure this, but Peter does allude to it)

A back-test of some of these ideas might prove revealing.

Anybody else got other ideas?

David

[Note: sorry if I'm repeating material that's already been discussed, I don't have the patience to review the prior 4,000 posts in this thread]
  • #3,946
  • Jul 16, 2008 9:51pm Jul 16, 2008 9:51pm
Hanover,
Your last couple of posts on this thread were excellent. Thanks for the insights. http://www.forexfactory.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Thanks,
Dave
  • #3,947
  • Jul 16, 2008 11:25pm Jul 16, 2008 11:25pm
Quoting hanover
At the end of the day they (like the rest of us) have only TA and FA at their disposal,
not at all! He said cleaarly that he has even some kind of inside information.


Quoting hanover

Anybody else got other ideas?
continuation of a 123. Or like you said s/r. Continuation after the s/r was already tested.

and maybe secrets that we will never know...

best regards.
  • #3,948
  • Jul 16, 2008 11:44pm Jul 16, 2008 11:44pm
example. Yesterday on GY(after the hours Peter and TRT trade) the bar #6 is a IB continuation of a 123.

the problem is that is ambiguous. In the chart now one can say that now we have the 123 to the upside but you can consider it a 123 high where the confirmation to downside would be this inside bar.

i said that before in the thread. If you see the Joe Ross deifinition of Traders Trick Entry you will see similarities.
  • #3,949
  • Jul 17, 2008 12:18am Jul 17, 2008 12:18am
Hi guys, I've been looking around for a while and just can't seem to find a simple IB indicator that works on any time frame. Is it possible that someone can either direct me to one or make one. And whilst I'm putting in a request, if someone does decide to make one if it could have an audible alarm attached to it that would be awesome.

Thanks...
"Even if you fall down face first, you still went forward."
  • #3,950
  • Jul 17, 2008 12:49am Jul 17, 2008 12:49am
Quoting juicyt
Hi guys, I've been looking around for a while and just can't seem to find a simple IB indicator that works on any time frame. Is it possible that someone can either direct me to one or make one. And whilst I'm putting in a request, if someone does decide to make one if it could have an audible alarm attached to it that would be awesome.

Thanks...
If it is this what you are looking for ...i found it somewhere here or in the first thread. Time is GMT 00.00, but you can change it. No audible alarm. May be it helps.

Regards, Michael
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 DIBSv1.0.mq4   5 KB | 762 downloads
  • #3,951
  • Jul 17, 2008 2:34am Jul 17, 2008 2:34am
Quoting Nick_likes_pips
according to my account record, it triggered at 14:36GMT.
So with daylight savings in effect, that would be 10am EST and 3:36pm in London.
On my chart the 2pm bar broke the previous bar by 3 points, so disqualifying it as a normal set up? Did it not do this on your charts...?
  • #3,952
  • Edited 3:02am Jul 17, 2008 2:51am | Edited 3:02am
Quoting giraia_br
not at all! He said cleaarly that he has even some kind of inside information.

continuation of a 123. Or like you said s/r. Continuation after the s/r was already tested.

and maybe secrets that we will never know...

best regards.
Giraia, is this the answer?
"I am definitely not perfect, but I do not trade on hope. Just the facts of price and statistics with no spin on them. And facts I know from other contacts I have acquired over a 20 year span. I do not want to trade unless the trade has so little overall risk that it would be stupid to not take the trade." (Source: http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=1984802, emphasis mine)

Read into that whatever you will.

One very consistent theme throughout all of Peter's posts is: low risk. The smaller the IB, the more excited he is. Again, "I do not want to trade unless the trade has so little overall risk that it would be stupid to not take the trade."

Furthermore, from post #58 on the "No Free Lunch" thread:
"Win rate is not the most important factor in finding a good trading method. Profit potential/risk is.
The psychologically hardest one to trade is the one I use. I use the other extreme of the inside bar for my stop point.
The risk is as low as it is going to be and the best trades for us are the ones that don't give you ANY retracement after the breakout. Yes, you get stopped out a bit more than if you had the stop a bit farther away. We are trading to risk as little as possible for the greatest amount of potential gain."

Look at the statistics produced by Zinc6 in post #367.......
Pair__ ____#T __1:1__1:2_1:3_1:4_1:5__1:10___%1:1
EUR/USD - 137 - 66 - 41 - 29 - 25 - 23 - 17 ------48.1%
GBP/USD - 125 - 72 - 52 - 43 - 32 - 26 - 12 ------57.6%
USD/JPY - 139 - 61 - 37 - 27 - 23 - 19 - 7 --------43.8%
USD/CHF - 138 - 57 - 35 - 27 - 23 - 21 - 14 ------41.3%

........and Peter's response in post #374:
"Within your breakdown of potential profits you have given away the greatest potential of the method"

TRT picks up on this theme here (http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost.php?p=2108541), and, in the context of exits, extends it further.

Again, it's about making several hundred pips from just a few pips risk. RR values that probably many of us have never dreamt were possible. Just one 300:1 win is going to compensate for many, many losses. (Small wonder that Peter threw in the towel – see post #438 – when he received too much feedback from folk who, in trying to avoid losses, just weren't "getting it". Think about what "it" might be – another clue?)

To attain anything like 300:1, it makes me wonder how they trail their SLs, though.
DIBS might start with something like a 10 pip protective SL (height of the IB), but for a trade to last 23 months, the trailing SL must have been widened incredibly (or possibly no SL at all?), once the "free trade" situation was reached. Of course, 23 months would also allow a fair amount of swap to accumulate.
TRT talks about the tremendous potential of the carry trade, when suitably leveraged, elsewhere.

[Note: in post #91 of the "No Free Lunch" thread, Peter states that it was TRT who taught him the DIBS method - so I guess it's safe to assume that TRT trades it also!]

In post #102, Peter says that he avoided a short DIBS setup because he was only looking for buys. Why? Well, for one thing, he was already in a long trade from the previous day, and I suspect that he wanted to be in position to ride the "free trade" for several more days, perhaps even months, if the market allowed it.


Of course I'm only guessing with all of this, but the above theme appears to be a strongly recurring one.

Here's another clue (from post #83), that I missed from my earlier post:
"The trade is simple and perverse at the same time. It also gives some of the best risk/reward trades possible (yes - again!) and always ensures that you are with the daily trend. If you are also in tune with the weekly and monthly trends is when it gets exciting!
This one is a good example. The weekly trend on the GBP/USD is still officially down. This trade has potential "legs".
This concept correlates very well with another system used by TRT, which seeks nothing more than to exploit an opening range breakout in the weekly move, and is apparently profitable in its own right........ in other words, when combined with DIBS, an aggregation of edges.

The more often I re-read Peter's posts, the more I realize that there is much more insight underlying them than simply an IB trading method. Moreover, I'm coming to the realization that the IB itself is only one small part of the total modus operandi: namely, a tool for identifying a potentially low risk entry.

David
  • #3,953
  • Jul 17, 2008 3:01am Jul 17, 2008 3:01am
I can't see any valid setups on the Majors today, they are all going sideways. Had two quickies on the Yen crosses which I limited out at resistance and I'm still long the USDJPY on a free trade. Doesn't look like much action this afternoon. Yet...
Never argue with a fool....
  • #3,954
  • Jul 17, 2008 3:06am Jul 17, 2008 3:06am
Quoting davema
Hanover,
Your last couple of posts on this thread were excellent. Thanks for the insights. http://www.forexfactory.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Thanks,
Dave
From one Dave to another:
thanks for the feedback.

Remember, I'm only guessing, though.

David
  • #3,955
  • Jul 17, 2008 3:18am Jul 17, 2008 3:18am
Quoting hanover
Giraia, is this the answer?
"I am definitely not perfect, but I do not trade on hope. Just the facts of price and statistics with no spin on them. And facts I know from other contacts I have acquired over a 20 year span. I do not want to trade unless the trade has so little overall risk that it would be stupid to not take the trade." (Source: http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=1984802, emphasis mine)

Read into that whatever you will.

One very consistent theme throughout all of Peter's posts is: low risk. The smaller the IB, the more excited he is. Again, "I do not want to trade unless the trade has so little overall risk that it would be stupid to not take the trade."

Furthermore, from post #58 on the "No Free Lunch" thread:
"Win rate is not the most important factor in finding a good trading method. Profit potential/risk is.
The psychologically hardest one to trade is the one I use. I use the other extreme of the inside bar for my stop point.
The risk is as low as it is going to be and the best trades for us are the ones that don't give you ANY retracement after the breakout. Yes, you get stopped out a bit more than if you had the stop a bit farther away. We are trading to risk as little as possible for the greatest amount of potential gain."

Look at the statistics produced by Zinc6 in post #367.......
Pair__ ____#T __1:1__1:2_1:3_1:4_1:5__1:10___%1:1
EUR/USD - 137 - 66 - 41 - 29 - 25 - 23 - 17 ------48.1%
GBP/USD - 125 - 72 - 52 - 43 - 32 - 26 - 12 ------57.6%
USD/JPY - 139 - 61 - 37 - 27 - 23 - 19 - 7 --------43.8%
USD/CHF - 138 - 57 - 35 - 27 - 23 - 21 - 14 ------41.3%

........and Peter's response in post #374:
"Within your breakdown of potential profits you have given away the greatest potential of the method"

TRT picks up on this theme here (http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost.php?p=2108541), and, in the context of exits, extends it further.

Again, it's about making several hundred pips from just a few pips risk. RR values that probably many of us have never dreamt were possible. Just one 300:1 win is going to compensate for many, many losses. (Small wonder that Peter threw in the towel – see post #438 – when he received too much feedback from folk who, in trying to avoid losses, just weren't "getting it". Think about what "it" might be – another clue?)

To attain anything like 300:1, it makes me wonder how they trail their SLs, though.
DIBS might start with something like a 10 pip protective SL (height of the IB), but for a trade to last 23 months, the trailing SL must have been widened incredibly (or possibly no SL at all?), once the "free trade" situation was reached. Of course, 23 months would also allow a fair amount of swap to accumulate.
TRT talks about the tremendous potential of the carry trade, when suitably leveraged, elsewhere.

[Note: in post #91 of the "No Free Lunch" thread, Peter states that it was TRT who taught him the DIBS method - so I guess it's safe to assume that TRT trades it also!]

In post #102, Peter says that he avoided a short DIBS setup because he was only looking for buys. Why? Well, for one thing, he was already in a long trade from the previous day, and I suspect that he wanted to be in position to ride the "free trade" for several more days, perhaps even months, if the market allowed it.


Of course I'm only guessing with all of this, but the above theme appears to be a strongly recurring one.

Here's another clue (from post #83), that I missed from my earlier post:
"The trade is simple and perverse at the same time. It also gives some of the best risk/reward trades possible (yes - again!) and always ensures that you are with the daily trend. If you are also in tune with the weekly and monthly trends is when it gets exciting!
This one is a good example. The weekly trend on the GBP/USD is still officially down. This trade has potential "legs".
This concept correlates very well with another system used by TRT, which seeks nothing more than to exploit an opening range breakout in the weekly move, and is apparently profitable in its own right........ in other words, when combined with DIBS, an aggregation of edges.

The more often I re-read Peter's posts, the more I realize that there is much more insight underlying them than simply an IB trading method. Moreover, I'm coming to the realization that the IB itself is only one small part of the total modus operandi: namely, a tool for identifying a potentially low risk entry.

David
excellent post! Raz
Never say never.
  • #3,956
  • Jul 17, 2008 3:18am Jul 17, 2008 3:18am
Todays trades with USD bias:
5:01GMT UJ 2GMT IB, buy @ 1.0498, sl 1.0476, BE (2/3 at 2:1) 1.0509
6:05GMT GU 3GMT IB, sell @ 2.0003, sl 2.0026, BE 1.9991
6.05GMT UC 3GMT IB, buy @ 1.0158, sl 1.0142, BE 1.0166
6:15GMT EU 3GMT IB, sell @ 1.5844, sl 1.5862, BE 1.5835 --- stopped out at BE
Why USD bias: because of yesterdays move, and price is following a shortterm channel, and some minor s/r, fibs and pivots
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: UJ.JPG Size: 160 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: GU.JPG Size: 162 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: UC.JPG Size: 156 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: EU.JPG Size: 148 KB
  • #3,957
  • Jul 17, 2008 3:57am Jul 17, 2008 3:57am
Just got stopped out of the USDJPY position but closed out the trade at a small profit. A short but good trading day so I'll call it quits and sign off now. I'm off to Japan for a few days so I'll catch you good folk again next week. Happy trading and have a great weekend!
Never argue with a fool....
  • #3,958
  • Jul 17, 2008 4:11am Jul 17, 2008 4:11am
Inside Bars (bar of 8.00GMT) for

EUR/USD
GBP/USD
USD/JBY
USD/CHF
GBP/JBY

all togheter! Amazing.
  • #3,959
  • Jul 17, 2008 4:32am Jul 17, 2008 4:32am
Quoting desiati
Inside Bars (bar of 8.00GMT) for

EUR/USD
GBP/USD
USD/JBY
USD/CHF
GBP/JBY

all togheter! Amazing.
GU IB below dailyopen and broke up - no trade
EU, UC, UJ is possible but it's buying into a (small) resistance and not "easy" to get to free ride so I didn't enter them, UJ is still pending
  • #3,960
  • Jul 17, 2008 4:32am Jul 17, 2008 4:32am
I am sorry if my question sounds stupid.

Do we trade the Inside Bar start from 00.00 GMT to 06.00 GMT, or after 06.00 GMT?

Thanks
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