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making a living

  • #1
  • First Post: Feb 1, 2007 4:34pm Feb 1, 2007 4:34pm
i have a question that is more out of curiosity than out of practicality, for anyone that is trading for a living. how long after you opened up your account were you able to live off of it, i don't mean living large and the highlife, but able to live off it. and how many accounts you went through before you got to that stage. thank you for any feedback you have for me.
  • #2
  • Feb 1, 2007 4:48pm Feb 1, 2007 4:48pm
Quoting MrSpot
i have a question that is more out of curiosity than out of practicality, for anyone that is trading for a living. how long after you opened up your account were you able to live off of it, i don't mean living large and the highlife, but able to live off it. and how many accounts you went through before you got to that stage. thank you for any feedback you have for me.
This is being asked quite often and honestly i do not see how you could benefit from the answer. Everybody's situation is different and abilities are different. Just because it took someone only six months it does not mean that it would take you six months. And just because someone blew 3 acounts and gave up does not mean that you would fail too. You need to find your own answer. Knowing that it took someone only 3 months without blowing his account even once would put pressure on you, because if you would not be able to succed after 3 months psichologicaly you might start thinking of yourself as a failure. Hope i make some sence!
Stubbornly persistent
  • #3
  • Feb 1, 2007 5:08pm Feb 1, 2007 5:08pm
I understand what you mean, but as I said my question was one of curiosity rather than practicality. I know that everyone has a different learning curve, and that everyone is going to have a different standard of living. I don't intend to use the info as a basis for how well i am doing, but to understand how well others have done, or poorly for that matter. But if the question is too personal or for whatever reason you simply don't wish to answer than that is fine too.
  • #4
  • Edited 5:26pm Feb 1, 2007 5:09pm | Edited 5:26pm
You should expect to go through at least one, big account and the odds are that you'll burn through two before you start to become consistent.

If you stick with forex, you might be able to get off cheap, because you're not necessarily forced to have to have a lot of capital. To trade equities, you really need AT LEAST $20,000.

Most successful traders I know have burned through a lot of money. At least 10-20K. (and that's on the cheap side)

Consider it college tuition. Everyone pretty much has to burn through that much to finally get it. It's just how it is.

It's funny -- when I started trading, I had a mentor and everything. I had a plan, everything. Didn't matter. I would write in my journal, document my plan, everything, but I still couldn't stick to it. I had to spend a lot of money to finally get it to click in my head.

So, in short -- I would say it should take you between 2-5 years, IF you make it past the first year (the odds are you won't), and at least two accounts.
Mr. Trend
  • #5
  • Feb 1, 2007 5:45pm Feb 1, 2007 5:45pm
Time from opening my first account until trading full time: ~10,000 hours of devoted study or just under 2 years.

How many accounts did I blow? None.

Note: I took a few big losses, but had the sense to step back after each one and re-evaluate. Maximum drawdown from invested capital was about $3000. It’s hard to put that into % terms because I tried a few different markets/brokers with different starting balances. The most significant drawdown was $1800 (in all of 8 seconds during an FOMC decision) on a $6000 account.

Note 2: I guess that’s not entirely true. I have had a few gambling accounts that I started with ~$100 to swing for the fences with. They all died miserable deaths, but I don't consider them "blow outs" because I never cared about them to begin with.

Advice? Becoming a full time trader is a long and hard road. It will make you question things about your beliefs and yourself that you never expect to confront, but in the end if you want it bad enough and are willing to make the necessary sacrifices it is well worth it.

Ohh and be willing to admit when you’re wrong. That’s what screws most people up.
  • #6
  • Feb 1, 2007 5:55pm Feb 1, 2007 5:55pm
Here's another interesting observation:

Those who are successful and spend the least amount of money during their tuition days seem to be those whose personality is quiet and level headed.

I know a couple people who are laid back, and don't get too worked up over anything. They both haven't blown accounts yet. One is a very successful guy of ten years trading, and the other has a couple years under his belt, if not a little more and is relatively successful.

IMO, those who are programmers, artists, etc., are more likely to succeed than, say, sales people who are very outspoken, center of attention, etc...

The former make money quicker than the latter.
Mr. Trend
  • #7
  • Feb 1, 2007 6:04pm Feb 1, 2007 6:04pm
Everyone’s Forex journey will be different ….

My journey:

1st year: Read, Looked for a system, Study Charts …

2nd year: Opened account with $5000, got as low as $3500, I managed to bring it back up to +$5000 at the end of the 2nd year

3rd year: I’m two months in … but I left off where I ended the 2nd year … another +5% for the month of Jan … and I just funded the account with an additional $12,000

Note: I don’t trade full time. I plan to keep learning and improve myself as a trader.
If it is not broken, fix it until it is!
  • #8
  • Feb 1, 2007 6:05pm Feb 1, 2007 6:05pm
I wish i was an artist
  • #9
  • Feb 1, 2007 6:19pm Feb 1, 2007 6:19pm
6 months for me, but that was full time commitment....many hours everyday, you got to want it.

The big aha moment for me was when I stopped trying to analyze the market and just traded what I saw.

Oh yeah...MR TRend, this is from a sales background...
  • #10
  • Feb 1, 2007 6:51pm Feb 1, 2007 6:51pm
My first newbie post

From what little I have read, Forex is Zero Sum which means for people to make money a lot of other people have to lose money .....

Is it really possible for a lone trader to actually make a living .... when competing against huge banks and financial institutions with massive capital and armies of phd graduates and cray computers ??

Seems there are countless "systems" out there which promise easy money ..... are they just bogus get-rich-quick scams ??

This all just seems to be glamorised gambling ..... Please pardon my ignorance !!
  • #11
  • Feb 1, 2007 6:54pm Feb 1, 2007 6:54pm
Quoting Perfectionist
My first newbie post

From what little I have read, Forex is Zero Sum which means for people to make money a lot of other people have to lose money .....

Is it really possible for a lone trader to actually make a living .... when competing against huge banks and financial institutions with massive capital and armies of phd graduates and cray computers ??

Seems there are countless "systems" out there which promise easy money ..... are they just bogus get-rich-quick scams ??

This all just seems to be glamorised gambling ..... Please pardon my ignorance !!
You're going to learn REAL quick that it ain't the PhD's that make money in this game. Quite the contrary.

Do you know who are the most prone to failure? Doctors, PhD types, big sales people with ego's the size of mountains and fast cars. Do you know why? Because they HAVE to be right. And they will sabotage theirselves, their family, their kid's tuition, whatever it takes, to force the market to do their bidding.

...and all the while, their accounts dwindle.

A lot of people think they can take their success in the real world and transition it to the markets.

You know who makes the money in the markets? The little guy -- that geek in high school who was an outcast and didn't give a darn what anyone thought. He didn't have to be right. He doesn't have to be noticed.

Everyone thinks that the markets are all of this glamour and cars and women. Or that, "Oh man, that guy has to be smart to do that market thing." "Hey man, do you buy stocks and stuff? What do you think of DELL?" LOL...not even close.
Mr. Trend
  • #12
  • Feb 1, 2007 7:05pm Feb 1, 2007 7:05pm
Quoting Perfectionist
My first newbie post

From what little I have read, Forex is Zero Sum which means for people to make money a lot of other people have to lose money .....

Is it really possible for a lone trader to actually make a living .... when competing against huge banks and financial institutions with massive capital and armies of phd graduates and cray computers ??

Seems there are countless "systems" out there which promise easy money ..... are they just bogus get-rich-quick scams ??

This all just seems to be glamorised gambling ..... Please pardon my ignorance !!
We are funded by 1 big mistake by a bank, that could be a years forex profits and more for one of us, they make mistakes to, and alot of funds invest in a range of investments and dont win in all of them.

+ you have the 1000s of newbies that blow a few accounts and quit
  • #13
  • Feb 1, 2007 7:17pm Feb 1, 2007 7:17pm
i also find people who are spiritual/religious are quite successful in trading..just observation
  • #14
  • Feb 1, 2007 7:18pm Feb 1, 2007 7:18pm
Quoting Mr Trend
You know who makes the money in the markets? The little guy -- that geek in high school who was an outcast and didn't give a darn what anyone thought. He didn't have to be right. He doesn't have to be noticed.
What? Were you following me around in school?
  • #15
  • Feb 1, 2007 8:50pm Feb 1, 2007 8:50pm
This is going to sound sad.

For me it is more then just the money, or the goal of 'earning a living' I actually really ENJOY the process of trading. It's always said, "do something you enjoy...have a passion for", and it will become you. (I added the last bit !)

Anyway, I was never any good at collecting stamps!

Still very early in my education, yet my life has changed. I'm not too worried about earning a living, because I simply enjoy it , sometimes that is good enough, and shall continue ad infinitum, (or at least untill I find that Penny Black!)

Good trading to all. And remember ALWAYS learn SOMETHING from a loss, write it on the wall if you have to!
  • #16
  • Feb 1, 2007 9:08pm Feb 1, 2007 9:08pm
Quoting Mr Trend
You know who makes the money in the markets? The little guy -- that geek in high school who was an outcast and didn't give a darn what anyone thought.
Hey! That's me!!

Ya know, most geeks don't know much about sports. You know, the old jock vs nerd thing.

Well I try to be a well rounded geek. I know a bit about sports.

I know that Tiger Woods is the Quarterback for the New York Yankees.
sxaxlxvxaxtxixoxnxbxyxgxrxaxcxexdxoxtxoxrxgx
  • #17
  • Feb 1, 2007 10:26pm Feb 1, 2007 10:26pm
  • #18
  • Feb 1, 2007 10:28pm Feb 1, 2007 10:28pm
Quoting Mr Trend
You're going to learn REAL quick that it ain't the PhD's that make money in this game. Quite the contrary.

Do you know who are the most prone to failure? Doctors, PhD types, big sales people with ego's the size of mountains and fast cars. Do you know why? Because they HAVE to be right. And they will sabotage theirselves, their family, their kid's tuition, whatever it takes, to force the market to do their bidding.

...and all the while, their accounts dwindle.

A lot of people think they can take their success in the real world and transition it to the markets.

You know who makes the money in the markets? The little guy -- that geek in high school who was an outcast and didn't give a darn what anyone thought. He didn't have to be right. He doesn't have to be noticed.

Everyone thinks that the markets are all of this glamour and cars and women. Or that, "Oh man, that guy has to be smart to do that market thing." "Hey man, do you buy stocks and stuff? What do you think of DELL?" LOL...not even close.
GREAT POST! Thanks Mr. Trend
  • #19
  • Feb 2, 2007 2:01am Feb 2, 2007 2:01am
I'm 16 months into it and i'm making a little bit. I lost my first two accounts. I'm a good ways away from trading for a living.
How you act is more important than how you feel.
  • #20
  • Feb 2, 2007 8:57am Feb 2, 2007 8:57am
thanks ya'll, i appreciate the input. i have been running a demo for about 7 months now and i am doin pretty well with it. i am about to fund my first live account so i can get some experience when emotions are active with proper money. which leads me to another question, how do i go about tax payment, i am in the uk right now, and not quite sure how the tax system works over here and what i need to do so i don't get charged with tax evading. I would assume that it would work just the same as working for yourself, but i could be completely wrong.
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