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  • #21
  • Edited 1:16pm Mar 25, 2008 10:38am | Edited 1:16pm
Quoting Bemac
Hi Peter, are you interested in having the ability to post in the Trading Room?

I'm sure you would have little trouble in aswaying any doubts any member may have.

As an incentive {to you} I have already offered my vouch because I feel anyone who says they "Traded the DM." has been around a while.

I see BWR beat me to it but that's OK. 2 more to go Unless you say NO.

edit
Ohhh, wouldn't it be nice to see an Unclutered thread named...

"Experiences of a Pit Trader."
end edit
Thanks for your interest and support.

I'm sorry I haven't replied to any posts as the past week has been a gusher. Plenty of risk, that's true; but enough movement to make a poor trader with a simple moving average system (with stops) some money.

Thanks everyone for the vouches for 1KT status.

I probably have taken more than 70,000 individual trades. Not hard to do when you have a unique vantage point with limited risk. I don't trade as frequently anymore, but actually make more. By trading less for bigger profits per trade.

I miss the pit sometimes, but change is the constant, not the exception.

News Trading - Not what you might think!

All traders in the pit followed the news. The pit is/was surrounded by every possible news service that exists. When news comes out, positive or negative for something, the pit traders have first advantage to position themselves correctly for the avalanche of orders that typically come pouring in after JQ Public hears it on the radio. Tough to lose with that advantage.

The big players in the pit don't use the news coming out the way the small players do. They operate a couple of steps ahead of the pit and the public. You, the off-floor forex trader, can operate like them.

The big players take note of the time that the "news" comes out, the price of the tradeable-- and trade the breakouts of the price area of the trades within 10 minutes after the news is out. Huge profits are possible from these trades.

I love the polarizing effect of news on a market. The recent Bear-Stearns fiasco/bailout is an example of news that forces all players to take their stand in a short period of time. In all related markets. It makes it easy for forex traders to trade the "new' movements after the news is all out and there are no more shoes to drop.

After everybody has voted with their money, they are either right or wrong.

If they are right, they will push their position. If they are wrong, they will bail out because they don't understand any more what is going on and they will have to re-evaluate or reverse position if they have assets to preserve.

Either way, the forex trader gets a fantastic opportunity whenever you get major news. News that is unique enough that it can't ever happen again and be unique.

News like the Intel chip years ago that had math computation problems and the stock dived. Also, "Mad Cow" for cattle traders..., the list could go on for hours.

Now we have the Bear Stearns move, because the Fed showed it really would intervene any time there might be a threat of problems.

Back to trading. Have a good day.

PeterCrowns
  • #22
  • Edited 10:12pm Mar 25, 2008 9:57pm | Edited 10:12pm
Thanks for this post Peter. I can see glittering fragments exposed on the surface with the invitation to Dig Deeper to find 'The Load'.

Would like to expound on the "Source Info/Timing aspect of Profiting from Spikes."

I understand delay of making public Current Data Analysis, but, have you consolidated a method that allows you a lower risk of loss while Trading these vehicles on the E-market?

With Respect.
Quoting PeterCrowns
{Skip...}I would trade the "hot hand". The strongest/weakest market got my business. Still does. ...
Peter
Gotta give a guy with no bias some respect. He Either Knows what he is doing OR {personally, in this case, I DON'T think so} has no clue of his current situation.
  • #23
  • Mar 25, 2008 10:58pm Mar 25, 2008 10:58pm
Quoting Bemac
Thanks for this post Peter. I can see glittering fragments exposed on the surface with the invitation to Dig Deeper to find 'The Load'.

Would like to expound on the "Source Info/Timing aspect of Profiting from Spikes."

I understand delay of making public Current Data Analysis, but, have you consolidated a method that allows you a lower risk of loss while Trading these vehicles on the E-market?
Trading the "hot hand": Trading the strongest/weakest market is actually really simple. For example, yesterday the Eur/Usd was up more proportionately than the Usd/Chf was down. This was because the Usd/Chf wasn't even a down day. Definitely off its highs but not down relative to last week's close. The Eur/Usd was up, up and away! So that is the market you buy.

And I did! I'm sure I had company from this group.

In the pit the first thing you learn--- when you are ready to actually make money..., and stop the bleeding, is:

  1. Only be willing to buy a market if it is up on the day.
  2. Only be willing to sell a market if it is down on the day.

Obviously, it would logically follow that the currencies which are up more are better buys and the ones down more are the better shorts. So basically, if you get a buy setup forming on two strong currencies, take the trade on the one up most on the day.

This actually means that you never go short a currency unless it is "down" relative to yesterday's close; or go long for any reason unless the market is "up" on the day.

Review for yourself how many large losses you could've eliminated from your past trades if you followed these rules. At the same time, I am certain you would have eliminated very few of your biggest winners by doing this.

Think about this for a while. I have for decades. The power of this simple concept still amazes me.

I'm sure this sounds simplistic to everyone, and maybe this stuff is obvious to you all, but I doubt it. How many times do you find yourself buying a weaker currency instead of the stronger one, thinking that the weaker one "has" to catch up, or the stronger one has already moved as much as it is likely to already.

Always buy setups in the strongest daily markets, always take sell orders in the weakest daily markets.

And yes, I have come up with very simple methods to exploit this. Breakouts of inside bars on hourly charts is one very useable technique I use a lot. Pennants of various constructions work very well too. Once you know which markets to trade, and in which directions--- it is a pretty simple job.

After all, trading is just risk control. Unfortunately it can take a while for us to learn to use the simple tools we have available.

-Peter-

  • #24
  • Mar 25, 2008 11:44pm Mar 25, 2008 11:44pm
Quoting PeterCrowns

  1. Only be willing to buy a market if it is up on the day.
  2. Only be willing to sell a market if it is down on the day...

Very simple but the implications are very deep at the same time...if that makes any sort of sense.

I would love to be a fly on the wall for just an hour when you're trading. I feel like I would learn heaps.

Quoting PeterCrowns
And yes, I have come up with very simple methods to exploit this. Breakouts of inside bars on hourly charts is one very useable technique I use a lot.
Could you elaborate on that? Pretty please?
Not all sins are created equal
  • #25
  • Mar 26, 2008 2:22pm Mar 26, 2008 2:22pm
Quoting Jay Walker

Quote
Originally Posted by PeterCrowns

  1. Only be willing to buy a market if it is up on the day.
  2. Only be willing to sell a market if it is down on the day...

Very simple but the implications are very deep at the same time...if that makes any sort of sense.

I would love to be a fly on the wall for just an hour when you're trading. I feel like I would learn heaps.

Quote
Originally Posted by PeterCrowns
And yes, I have come up with very simple methods to exploit this. Breakouts of inside bars on hourly charts is one very useable technique I use a lot.
Could you elaborate on that? Pretty please?
A chart picture is the best thing I can do.

The chart I am attaching is a snap of the hourly GBP/USD for this week.

The white dotted lines, which are 24 hours long, start at the close of the previous day, at Midnight. I am only looking to go long on a breakout (blue line) of an inside bar if that breakout is above the previous close.

Likewise, I am only interested in selling a downside breakout (red line) if the breakout is below the previous close.

You will notice that almost all of the breakouts were significant enough for you to make a very good shorter term trade, some you could have trailed most of them with a form of trailing stop (moving average) and still be in hundreds of pips after entry with a small stop at the other side of the inside bar.

(I did get an email from a reader of this thread (Matt) who also used to be on the floor. He wasn't exactly happy that I was telling these details of floor trading. Well, my answer was: "These are very big markets and anything I might reveal is unlikely to matter much since very few will believe that profitable trading can be simple. Most are looking for some special complex answer. It isn't there!")

One last tip: You want to be particularly interested in the inside bar breakouts which meet the conditions early in the session, namely the first 9 - 10 hours.

Knock-em dead.

Trading doesn't have to be tough to work.

I won't wish you luck. You won't need it now.

-PeterCrowns-
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Snap Inside Hourly breakouts.jpg Size: 401 KB
  • #26
  • Mar 26, 2008 2:27pm Mar 26, 2008 2:27pm
^^
Hey there Peter.
I can't seem to see your chart. Is it just me?
Carpe Divitiae
  • #27
  • Mar 26, 2008 2:33pm Mar 26, 2008 2:33pm
Quoting PeterCrowns
(I did get an email from a reader of this thread (Matt) who also used to be on the floor. He wasn't exactly happy that I was telling these details of floor trading. Well, my answer was: "These are very big markets and anything I might reveal is unlikely to matter much since very few will believe that profitable trading can be simple. Most are looking for some special complex answer. It isn't there!")
No offense meant to all you current/ex- floor/pit traders, but is it really such a "big secret" anymore? It's not like simple break-outs, of any kind are something new and unique.

Quote
One last tip: You want to be particularly interested in the inside bar breakouts which meet the conditions early in the session, namely the first 9 - 10 hours.
Which session are you referring to? 9-10 hours of "a" session, is pretty much "all" of the session, or am I missing some other floor secret here :. Just kidding. Is it the terminology maybe? I assume you mean session, like the rest of us know "session" ie. Asia / Europe / US?

Quote
Trading doesn't have to be tough to work.
The golden nugget.
Carpe Divitiae
  • #28
  • Mar 26, 2008 9:12pm Mar 26, 2008 9:12pm
Quoting fsiltd
No offense meant to all you current/ex- floor/pit traders, but is it really such a "big secret" anymore? It's not like simple break-outs, of any kind are something new and unique.

Which session are you referring to? 9-10 hours of "a" session, is pretty much "all" of the session, or am I missing some other floor secret here :. Just kidding. Is it the terminology maybe? I assume you mean session, like the rest of us know "session" ie. Asia / Europe / US?

The golden nugget.
Don't worry- I won't bother you with any more breakout ideas.

-Peter-
  • #29
  • Mar 26, 2008 10:10pm Mar 26, 2008 10:10pm
Quoting PeterCrowns
A chart picture is the best thing I can do...
Thank you

Your explanation is GOLD!

It goes to show that trading doesn't have to be tough to work.

But you sure needs the eyes to see

Very much appreciated PeterCrowns. Thanks again.
Not all sins are created equal
  • #30
  • Mar 26, 2008 10:19pm Mar 26, 2008 10:19pm
Hi Peter,

Thank you for the Very Detailed Explanation of your Break Play. Also, thank you for the chart explaining it.

Not sure about the others around here but I personally think your last couple of posts to this thread are in my personal Top 20% of Usefull Posts to The Forum.

Q) Did you ever have any kind of indication that bellowed Reversal on a Swing Trade Base?
Thanks for your time.
  • #31
  • Mar 26, 2008 10:58pm Mar 26, 2008 10:58pm
Quoting Bemac
Hi Peter,

Thank you for the Very Detailed Explanation of your Break Play. Also, thank you for the chart explaining it.

Not sure about the others around here but I personally think your last couple of posts to this thread are in my personal Top 20% of Usefull Posts to The Forum.

Q) Did you ever have any kind of indication that bellowed Reversal on a Swing Trade Base?
Thanks for your time.
Bemac--

Could you spell out your question a bit more? I just don't understand it very well....

-Peter-
  • #32
  • Mar 27, 2008 4:33am Mar 27, 2008 4:33am
Quoting PeterCrowns
Don't worry- I won't bother you with any more breakout ideas.

-Peter-
Oh come on now...
Firstly, I thought you ex-pit boys were a bit tougher and a bit more resilient than that.

Secondly, I think you may have misunderstood me here.
I was merely commenting on your "buddy's" e-mail asking you to "not reveal the secrets", which are not so secret after all.

Thirdly, you didn't answer the my other question. Which had nothing to do with break-outs, but more your analogy of a "session".

I'm sure you've got time to "waste" on little old me, same as I have time to "waste" on big old you.

If however being ex-pit also comes with the delusions of grandeur that makes one question, from an ignoramous such as myself, shut you down to any further conversation, then so be it.

Good day to you.
Carpe Divitiae
  • #33
  • Mar 27, 2008 6:29am Mar 27, 2008 6:29am
Quoting fsiltd
Oh come on now...
Firstly, I thought you ex-pit boys were a bit tougher and a bit more resilient than that.

Secondly, I think you may have misunderstood me here.
I was merely commenting on your "buddy's" e-mail asking you to "not reveal the secrets", which are not so secret after all.

Thirdly, you didn't answer the my other question. Which had nothing to do with break-outs, but more your analogy of a "session".

I'm sure you've got time to "waste" on little old me, same as I have time to "waste" on big old you.

If however being ex-pit also comes with the delusions of grandeur that makes one question, from an ignoramous such as myself, shut you down to any further conversation, then so be it.

Good day to you.
Oh man... Why is there always someone with their hand near the holster.

Ok guys, I think this has just been the usual misunderstanding you get when we try to communicate through text.

PeterCrown,

I've enjoyed your posts. It's always valuable advice when it comes from experience. I'll be listening to any tid bits you impart here at the Factory.

Love the floor trading stories. Whenever they come to the surface.

Thankyou.
Bundy's status today: "Waiting..."
  • #34
  • Mar 27, 2008 6:41am Mar 27, 2008 6:41am
Quoting bundyraider
Oh man... Why is there always someone with their hand near the holster.
Hey, he "drew-down" first, if I'm not mistaken.

Apologies for the attitude from my side.
Again, I should not let a tough week at the office, affect my posts on here.

and good trading to all.
Carpe Divitiae
  • #35
  • Mar 27, 2008 6:44am Mar 27, 2008 6:44am
Quoting PeterCrowns
Bemac--

Could you spell out your question a bit more? I just don't understand it very well....

-Peter-
Sorry Peter, my cryptic side was rolling to the surface.

You explained how you indentify Direction for a Session. My question basically is;

Can the same or similar method be used in timeframes greater than 1Hr for Swing Trades?
ie. Can it be applied to 4Hr or even Daily?
  • #36
  • Mar 27, 2008 6:49am Mar 27, 2008 6:49am
Quoting fsiltd
Hey, he "drew-down" first, if I'm not mistaken.
You both did.

It's easy to see how it started though. It was just a misread. I read it the same way too at first. You were having a go at 'Matt' , not Peter.
Bundy's status today: "Waiting..."
  • #37
  • Mar 27, 2008 7:02am Mar 27, 2008 7:02am
Quoting bundyraider
You both did.

It's easy to see how it started though. It was just a misread. I read it the same way too at first. You were having a go at 'Matt' , not Peter.
So by saying
Quote
No offense meant to all you current/ex- floor/pit traders,...
I was "having a go"?
And in return got
Quote
Sorry I wasted your time!
as a response...
I would still disagree about who drew-down first.

But I will agree with it being difficult to judge sentiment/tone with a written post. That is why, when I mean it, I always preempt my posts with "No offense meant/intended" "With all due respect" etc. etc.

Maybe I've just conversed with more floor/pit traders than I originally accounted for, and always hope that "the next one" will be somehow different. But alas... not yet.

Anyway, I'm probably cluttering up what is supposed to be a "clean" thread for Peter to share in, so I'll shut-up and piss-off.
Carpe Divitiae
  • #38
  • Mar 27, 2008 8:28am Mar 27, 2008 8:28am
I think we can use some of that free coffee right about now.
Just Trade It
  • #39
  • Mar 27, 2008 11:21am Mar 27, 2008 11:21am
Quoting Bemac
Sorry Peter, my cryptic side was rolling to the surface.

You explained how you indentify Direction for a Session. My question basically is;

Can the same or similar method be used in timeframes greater than 1Hr for Swing Trades?
ie. Can it be applied to 4Hr or even Daily?
Absolutely!

A method is pretty hard to trust if it only works on one timeframe.

For the 4/6/8 hour charts and daily charts you check to see if you are up or down versus last week's close. Take buys if you are above, sells if you are below.

Monthly position can also be checked, depending on how long term you are willing to be. Personally, I am not willing to remain in a trade 1 minute longer than absolutely necessary if it is going against me, but I'm willing to hold for months if a trade is going my way in a larger trend. Swings and all. You do get used to them after you start collecting some gargantuan profits.

And a few words about the alleged "pissing match", "war of words", etc., someone might think was going on....

I take trading seriously. I don't believe in wasting my time. Others can, but trading is my livelihood. I don't screw around in word or deed. I make mistakes. Maybe posting here was one of them. I am quick to correct my mistakes.

There are "secrets" of trading that are known to a few of us. These secrets buy our multi-million-dollar homes and lives of relative security.

Some of them are very simple- but not known or able to be exploited by many. You actually only need one good one to gain entry to a world that no one ever really sees, until you're there yourself.

Winners tend to hang out with winners. When other winners see you're capable, and can execute consistently for a few years, they want to know you, what you are doing. They share what they are doing, because they know you won't be cavalier and shit on them or others like them.

And, contrary to some common beliefs, not all breakouts are the same. I know which breakouts have 2 - 5 times the edge of similar-looking breakouts others take, get frustrated with, and likely lose money trading if they don't have perfect skills.

I'm happy to help people if they aren't idiots and if I have some free moments.

I definitely don't know everything; in fact I know very little for sure, and even less the longer I live. When I'm wrong, I correct myself quickly with no ego involvement. Hesitation has little reward in life and none in trading. In trading I stay wrong for only brief periods of time and encourage you to act the same.

Have a good trading day.

-Peter-
  • #40
  • Mar 27, 2008 11:25am Mar 27, 2008 11:25am
Quoting Big Wave Rider
I think we can use some of that free coffee right about now.
I'm getting one right now. Before the price goes up more.

-PeterCrowns-
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