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Indicator Free Trading - Skunny

  • #3,221
  • Feb 5, 2008 3:03pm Feb 5, 2008 3:03pm
Islander,

question for ya (or anyone else)..........regarding Gann Lines

Say I'm looking at a 5M chart. If I place my initial Gann line on a couple of key hits and then look at the Gann line properties scale and it's showing say.......1.68 or -1.68, should I then make sure that all the rest of the placements have the same scale on them?

Still trying to figure out this Gann stuff????
trading naked.......
  • #3,222
  • Feb 5, 2008 3:21pm Feb 5, 2008 3:21pm
Quoting piphitman
Islander,

question for ya (or anyone else)..........regarding Gann Lines

Say I'm looking at a 5M chart. If I place my initial Gann line on a couple of key hits and then look at the Gann line properties scale and it's showing say.......1.68 or -1.68, should I then make sure that all the rest of the placements have the same scale on them?

Still trying to figure out this Gann stuff????
Pip - as I understand it so far, we should be using whole numbers - 1.0, 2.0, 4.0 etc OR if a number less than 1.0 either a 0.5, 0.25 or possibly .618 or .382.

I try not to use more than a couple of angles at a time, both +ve and -ve.

Just my 2 pips of ideas so far - very early days for me with these angles, so I hope I'm too far off the mark!
Trading Levels with WRBs
  • #3,223
  • Edited 4:35pm Feb 5, 2008 3:25pm | Edited 4:35pm
Quite a busy thread you all have here.

Remember to have the scale fixed when using any of Gann's Lines, Fans, Grids or whatever else he tried. The problem with things such as this is in the end you have so many lines on your charts that 'may' meen something that you loose sight of the market flow/rythum, and the next line you encounter when in the trade might chase you out, and for what reason?
Why discount some Gann lines and use others?

I was accused of hindsight the other month, Good luck trying to use these Gann lines live trading. I dont say any of this to just be Grumpy, thats not me. If anyone can show me otherwise thats great. But please keep in mind that Gann died still looking for the BIG trading breakthough, and to my knowledge he didnt have much money in the bank.

Ill stick around, one thing I can say for sure is you guys are very driven and comited, thats probably the number one in terms of being trading material!

Good day.

Also, After reading a little more about what Skuny is claiming I have to say that IF all said is honest and true he can not and will not divulge any more information on this topic as it would totaly destroy the market structure as we know it. Imagine the masses all being able to trade profitably even 55% of the time, the whole market system would be finished. It is not possible for everyone tradin the FOREX to be able to make more money than they loose, nevermind win 100% of the time. Congratulations to skuny, he must be in a very nice place!
  • #3,224
  • Feb 5, 2008 3:26pm Feb 5, 2008 3:26pm
Quoting seb123
Hi All,

I started playing with Gann lines and this interesting situation just occurred, as some of you are into Gann lines, I thought you'd like to see it. Anybody else got this, is it a fluke?
(some of my lines are not quite parallel, a tool would be useful)
Hi Seb

What I noticed that you had there was a big Doji.

Wasn't there a post in the thread earlier on about how to trade Dojis.

Did someone also say that a fibbed Doji always hits its target.

I am seeing Dojis everywhere as their support becomes resistance.

Keep up the good work.

Frank
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  • #3,225
  • Feb 5, 2008 3:47pm Feb 5, 2008 3:47pm
I am hoping Skunny is going to drop in any minute and validate some of these charts I am seeing. No offense to anyone so please don't take any, but many of the charts that have been posted are not hitting the targets within a few pips like Skunny has commented on before. Either the market is letting us down by not sticking to the rules or some of these fibs are not in the right spot. I just want some clarification. This is not suppose to be discretionary so they should work within a few pips each time they hit the target....right??? Skunny we need you...I feel like Richie without Fonzie, Tonto without the Lone Ranger, Metropolis without Superman.

Anybody have a batphone???
  • #3,226
  • Feb 5, 2008 3:56pm Feb 5, 2008 3:56pm
Quoting 4X4EVER
I am hoping Skunny is going to drop in any minute and validate some of these charts I am seeing. No offense to anyone so please don't take any, but many of the charts that have been posted are not hitting the targets within a few pips like Skunny has commented on before. Either the market is letting us down by not sticking to the rules or some of these fibs are not in the right spot. I just want some clarification. This is not suppose to be discretionary so they should work within a few pips each time they hit the target....right??? Skunny we need you...I feel like Richie without Fonzie, Tonto without the Lone Ranger, Metropolis without Superman.

Anybody have a batphone???
Lenny without Squiggy???

I think the discretion comes into play as PiprPro posted awhile back about how your fib placements should be showing you something in regards to the natural S/R areas within the fib.
trading naked.......
  • #3,227
  • Feb 5, 2008 5:09pm Feb 5, 2008 5:09pm
Quoting Gknarf
Hi Seb

What I noticed that you had there was a big Doji.

Wasn't there a post in the thread earlier on about how to trade Dojis.

There was indeed by PiPr Pro, and I have used his (hers?) info trading on my demo. I copied it into the attached Word doc. Just in case you do not have Word, here is my copy of the post:

These notes apply to H1 Doji's and are certainly not meant to be a recommended trade plan, just general info on trading Doji's.

Doji's can be simple and fun to trade in many environments, but similar to others have issues in consolidating periods. If you just trade the Doji H/L breakout the issue to watch out for is the false breakout. After the Doji closes this is where PA will fake out one side, then reverse and hit the extension on the other side.

  1. You can take the first break with decent success but have periodic false break reversals.
  2. Breakouts should be H/L +/- 2 or 3 pips to avoid false breakouts
  3. If you have no break out on the next candle after close, when it does break only take the trade in the direction of the candle after Doji close. For example in this order: Candle 1 = Doji; Candle 2 = small bullish candle with no break above H/L of Doji; Candle 3 = bearish break out - do not trade. In this example you would only take a bullish breakout because the candle after the Doji indicated the market bias.
  4. TP = 161.8 or 25 pips whichever is greater (if 25 pips on GJ this reduces your profit to about 16 pips due to spread unless you trade through a prime). Or after 138.2 hit goto BE and trail stop.
  5. Don't trade after 1959 GMT and decide whether you are comfortable taking Doji's during Asian.
  6. PA often goes 50-70 pips opposite direction.
  7. After 138.2 or 161.8 go to SL = BE. Then raise stops to stay 5-10 pips behind the low/high of the candle depending on the direction of your trade. Remember, these are often decisive candles so you want to stay in the momentum trades.
  8. Statistics (if you have a fairly good handle on PA) : per 100 trades you will see approximately a 80% success rate just sticking to the above rules. That isn't a number pulled out of the air. In differing investments and seasons, your conservative success rate should range from about 75% to 85% success.
  9. As always, be aware of the market S/R areas.
  10. If you have a better way to trade these - please share!

P.S. by 10 pip trail stop I meant a candle trail stop. The stop is only moved after each candle completes




Attached File(s)
File Type: doc Doji trading by PiPr Pro.doc   96 KB | 616 downloads
  • #3,228
  • Feb 5, 2008 5:33pm Feb 5, 2008 5:33pm
Quoting LoLoAC
Quite a busy thread you all have here.

Remember to have the scale fixed when using any of Gann's Lines, Fans, Grids or whatever else he tried. The problem with things such as this is in the end you have so many lines on your charts that 'may' meen something that you loose sight of the market flow/rythum, and the next line you encounter when in the trade might chase you out, and for what reason?
Why discount some Gann lines and use others?

Simply because you didn't do your homework and had too many Gann lines in the first place.

I was accused of hindsight the other month, Good luck trying to use these Gann lines live trading. I don't say any of this to just be Grumpy, thats not me. If anyone can show me otherwise thats great.

I could show you now, but I will not. So, I will give you a hint. Find the single Gann line tool in MT4, then goto the H1 chart and drop a Gann line. Then goto properties > Parameters > Scale and alter the number where it fits on top of several wicked reversals. Then drop down to M5 and tell me if you can trade this. If you can't you are not working hard enough to understand Gann. Use vHands as everyone else is doing here and figure this out. This is simple instruction not covering time goal days, etc. Should help you on your journey.

But please keep in mind that Gann died still looking for the BIG trading breakthough, and to my knowledge he didnt have much money in the bank.

Who would you rather believe? One of the preeminent financial journals of the day monitoring with EXACT statistic fact Gann's trades on multiple occasions. Or, the word of Larry Williams, accused tax evader, accused contest manipulator who wasn't even there at the time. Gann's son who at one point said it's true - then it's not true. Who do you believe? Me, I'll believe vHands.

Ill stick around, one thing I can say for sure is you guys are very driven and comited, thats probably the number one in terms of being trading material!

Agreed, Thank you.

Good day.

Also, After reading a little more about what Skuny is claiming I have to say that IF all said is honest and true he can not and will not divulge any more information on this topic as it would totaly destroy the market structure as we know it. Imagine the masses all being able to trade profitably even 55% of the time, the whole market system would be finished.

This is not accurate. I manage a lot of money and don't even touch the market when I make large block moves. Let me break down the math for you: A trader starts at the broker level, then after achieving great returns eventually moves his account to a prime bank where 500k minimum trades are standard. Once she / he reaches a certain compounded account size the trades no longer receive single click execution and the prices range along with the market. Now let's assume there are 1000 expertly trained Fibonacci traders. Do you really think all those traders are going to trade the same currency pair? the same fib setup? the same time frame? So 1000 traders starting with $5,000 and a 25% monthly return for 24 months = $1Million+ account balance. For 1000 traders this equals $1 Billion. Again, now breakout the different pairs, time frames, fib setups and you will see this has NO bearing on the market.

I didn't just come up with this example to argue with you, so please forgive me. I live this each day and know it as fact.

It is not possible for everyone tradin the FOREX to be able to make more money than they loose, nevermind win 100% of the time. Congratulations to skuny, he must be in a very nice place!
see notes in bold above
Please see this as a helpful post. Not meant to be argumentative in any way.
  • #3,229
  • Feb 5, 2008 6:05pm Feb 5, 2008 6:05pm
Quote
1000 traders starting with $5,000 and a 25% monthly return for 24 months = $1Million+ account balance. For 1000 traders this equals $1 Billion.
So we Skunnions are off to a pretty good start huh.........?? or is it Skurtles?

Excellent post PiprPro
trading naked.......
  • #3,230
  • Feb 5, 2008 7:41pm Feb 5, 2008 7:41pm
Quoting piphitman
So we Skunnions are off to a pretty good start huh.........?? or is it Skurtles?

Excellent post PiprPro

Nice one!!!
  • #3,231
  • Edited 8:13pm Feb 5, 2008 7:54pm | Edited 8:13pm
So 1000 traders starting with $5,000 and a 25% monthly return for 24 months = $1Million+ account balance


nice one pipr

by the way this = $41.67 per day (less than 5 pips per day after fees/commisions) if you trade each and every day or 30 days per month

42 dollars X 30 days = $1260 in the first month (25%) and increasing your lot allocation with your account balance, and pipr's calculations work very nicely


sounds like a good plan to me


so maybe this forex is not about having a pip trophy case as Skunny has so wisely tried to teach us



PS i wrote this question mark on my chart priot to price hitting its mark..... as part of my forward testing


so if anyone doubts gann or thinks its not at least worth exploring... i respectfully disagree
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  • #3,232
  • Edited 8:30pm Feb 5, 2008 8:26pm | Edited 8:30pm
Yeah,

Cool without ranch???

Where is Skunny? Skunnnnnny? sigh.. I promised myself I wouldn;t cry.. Sniff... LOL. hehe


I think PIPHM that that is not discretionary but more of a confirmation or maybe to help you if you have many not so obvious choices when it is time to draw a new fib. IMO this is still non discretionary. i think ( and Skunny has said) he has given away everything already. I think now more then ever this is an "if then type" methodology since we are measuring dynamic support and resistance IMO.

i STRONGLY suspect it is one of those things that looks so clear in retrospect but looking forward is mindboggling. I have had a bunch of those moments where now it is like " uh duh yeah"

I think the one thing missing in here are the nuances the rules.. like dealing with xyz type of market or news or this and that(bad data, lying wicks, S/r behavior around differenet time frames, how to tell which time frame is running the show), which comes with screen time. Otherwise I think all the tools to be pip perfect are in this thread and I will sell sea shells by the see shore before I give up. ...actually... I might just do that anyways


PIPrpRO,

i am twocentsing.

Lets play a logic game. What if this is much harder to find that to implement... what if if someone showed you how to do it it would be like.. DUH since "i THINK" it is non discretionary( I think skunny said so) it should be if x then y and or z. etc.. which means within reason if concrete rules were taught or given everyone could follow it.

I may have traded once or twice before, and you , admittedly , have mail with your name on it coming to a wall street address.

So possibly we can agree the pip perfect trading or even being close with a 100% degree of certainty is the grail . price and time is the atomic grail. I think if someone were to give you 5mm or so to put into play with those rules a 25% return would be very conservative.

Now imagine... the complete chaos if everyone got their hands on these concrete rules and never had to work for them because they were spelled out. I THINK this isn;t so much hard to understand as it is hiding in plain sight.

I think 1000 traders is a gross underestimate( it would spread like butter on a hot biscuit). I would suspect it would go from hedge funds on down to people selling 20k a pop systems as a Skunnion or Skurtle... skunnion. That is IF it is non discretionary. it would be blood in the streets. as i am sure you can attest , never underestimate the depth people can sink to when money is involved.

i know nothing and I could be wrong as I haven;t found it since I haven;t been able to go consistantly pip perfect yet, but that is a terrible hypothetical. LIke what if anakin got a ahold of the info and went all vader? yikes hehehe

The journey would make it darn near impossible to give away free kind of ensuring those who were "right" to find it would hopefully.



Sizz
  • #3,233
  • Feb 5, 2008 8:33pm Feb 5, 2008 8:33pm
Quoting PiPr Pro
see notes in bold above
Please see this as a helpful post. Not meant to be argumentative in any way.
Oh, Pipr, you must be a ladies man, cause you really know how to turn a girl on. More posts like that , PLEASE!
Mom "To conquer fear is the beginning of wisdom." – Bertrand Russell
  • #3,234
  • Feb 5, 2008 8:51pm Feb 5, 2008 8:51pm
triple tops


look how many times you could fib this s/r area... where a double/triple top s/r was hiding..... seems pretty crazy needs more testing/////
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  • #3,235
  • Feb 5, 2008 9:28pm Feb 5, 2008 9:28pm
Hello all I think I found 'it.' Whatever that means. After three weeks of utter frustration I decided I would go back to the good ole' art of fibbing one candle at a time. I did however find a lot of new things over the last few weeks that I am thankful to have discovered (refer to my previous posts for those discoveries).

For you guys and gals out there to see what I am about to present, you will HAVE to add the fib levels I suggested a few pages back to see this work. Obvious---> a cycle ends when a fib level is met cleanly.There are all sorts of cycles in all sorts of time frames:single candle cycles, multi candle cycles, wrongly fibbed cycles ect. Everything in the Forex is in a dynamic cycle that is constantly changing as Skunnster has said.

Skunny pushed simple from the beginning. I see a whole lot of charts up on here that look like they could easily fit on a bedazzled commercial. I'm not saying lots of stuff on the chart is a bad thing but I don't think it is then simple anymore, and simple is of utmost importance here.

Remember when Skunnster megee said that the market gives hints of where it's going? Well he is exactly right, it does.

I'm not going to give the answer here, but I will leave more than enough pieces for you guys to figure this out.

Put a fib on a candle, any candle. You would be wise to have added those fib levels I already told you about. Watch which direction the following candles break first. It it breaks high, guess which extensions will be hit? If it breaks low????? LOL

Now for the market hinting us: You fib a candle (yes any candle) and the very next candle breaks up right past the 38.2 but doesn't hit the 61.8, then falls back down into the range of the fibbed candle in question. What would you do? Maybe the candles to follow even fall below the low of the fibbed candle. Ok I guess I am giving this away now but here what Scotty B would do. He would put a big ole smelly Take Profit on that original 61.8 level the market tried to go to but didn't hit, and then he would take a nap. It might take an hour and it might take a week, but the market will hit AT LEAST that 61.8. I say at least because if the initial candle that hits that 61.8 exceeds the 61.8 level by even a hair, I stay in the trade, but you guy's have to guess where I move my take profit to.
  • #3,236
  • Feb 5, 2008 9:47pm Feb 5, 2008 9:47pm
Quoting Scotty B
Hello all I think I found 'it.' .................
thanks for sharing - nice post
  • #3,237
  • Feb 5, 2008 10:33pm Feb 5, 2008 10:33pm
To be more clear, make sure you use the 1hr chart to see whats been in front of your face the last month.
  • #3,238
  • Feb 5, 2008 10:39pm Feb 5, 2008 10:39pm
Quoting Scotty B
.......................... but you guy's have to guess where I move my take profit to.
Based on your previous post I would guess 2.25
  • #3,239
  • Feb 5, 2008 10:42pm Feb 5, 2008 10:42pm
Quoting PiPr Pro
Based on your previous post I would guess 2.25
I plead the 5th..... I think you're gonna make it Piprpro. Da nananana Danananana <-pseudo singing for joy
  • #3,240
  • Feb 5, 2008 10:52pm Feb 5, 2008 10:52pm
Quoting Scotty B
Now for the market hinting us: You fib a candle (yes any candle) and the very next candle breaks up right past the 38.2 but doesn't hit the 61.8, then falls back down into the range of the fibbed candle in question. What would you do? Maybe the candles to follow even fall below the low of the fibbed candle. Ok I guess I am giving this away now but here what Scotty B would do. He would put a big ole smelly Take Profit on that original 61.8 level the market tried to go to but didn't hit, and then he would take a nap. It might take an hour and it might take a week, but the market will hit AT LEAST that 61.8. I say at least because if the initial candle that hits that 61.8 exceeds the 61.8 level by even a hair, I stay in the trade, but you guy's have to guess where I move my take profit to.
are you referring to the outer 138/162 extensions, or the inner 38.2 and 61.8?
trading naked.......
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