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Living in China, trading for a living 18 replies

1 trade per pair per year 6 replies

multiple systems per pair/multiple pairs per system? 3 replies

Trading 24 hours per day, 5 days per week 14 replies

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Trading for a living

  • #381
  • Oct 28, 2025 9:08am Oct 28, 2025 9:08am
Quoting M31
I know you're not ctrader but his gets talked about on ctrader discord a lot. ctrader you can run cli bots Linux capable, Open Api and Fix-Api Might be able to copy it, figure out what it is https://ctrader.com/products/1759?la...843&theme=dark https://ctrader.com/products/1960?la...843&theme=dark
Thanks, I'll take a look too.
  • #382
  • Edited 12:44pm Oct 28, 2025 9:19am | Edited 12:44pm
Quoting M31
{quote} You don't need to be intelligent to trade; if anything, I think you are worse, you overanalyze everything. Markets are presented to you as a visual representation of human psychology; if you are intelligent, this at some stage gets forgotten or ignored. To trade effectively, you have to behave like a pilot, follow all procedures, checklists, no rules are broken, not emotional, don't panic and be patient and practice, train. I'm agreeing by the way
Sure, we may all have opinions and express them as we like whether right or wrong. But it's something completely different when it is presented as evidence-based and "inferred". Claiming to have knowledge that you don't is different from expressing an opinion. Some may use words like deceptive, dishonest, fraudulent, etc, depending on situation.

I wouldn't do that in this case, but suggest that it's not helpful for other thread participants when forming their own views and understanding. Better to be open and honest about opinions vs knowledge.
  • #383
  • Edited 11:00am Oct 28, 2025 9:20am | Edited 11:00am
Quoting Noisy
{quote} It doesn't have to be an algorithmic system per se, but if it requires manual execution, it must be executable within the limited time available to me each day and lead to the required results overall. Yes, depression and anxiety are shit, and you'd probably say that trading isn't the right thing. The thing is, everything else offers little alternative to what I imagine a successful/independent life to be. As I said, a traditional career in a permanent job is difficult in itself because I would have a hard time finding the flexibility and...
Don't want to be negative, but self-employment is stressful; it comes with a lot of worries. I've had 3 self-employment roles and trade full-time now. It's a risk-taker type environment; it's a certain type of personality for this. Tax is difficult to manage, stress and you never leave the job behind at work, like I used to do with full-time employment; it's hard to switch off sometimes. Walk past my desk, I'm instantly reminded, it's just something to be mindful of; sometimes it's worse if you're not a risk taker. Although, trading, is the least amount of stress, I have watched netflix for half the day.

It sounds like you want or need the money, more than the lifestyle. I have been depressed before, when I was homeless, I can relate to you, its tough; nothing will break that depression for you, it's a constant cycle of negative thoughts. But take a step back and really think things through, take a break from it for a few days, is bankruptcy not an option, consider everything but take a break first, would be my adivce. Really wish I could help.
  • #384
  • Edited 12:52pm Oct 28, 2025 10:02am | Edited 12:52pm
Quoting Noisy
{quote} Thanks, I'll take a look too.
Have you spoke to or messaged Erebus? (the more I think about, Erebus is who you need to speak to)


He operates in a similar way, to what I think you're trying to achieve. He uses prop firms in the way they should be used, experienced (old fart) knowledge with algo trading too.
  • #385
  • Oct 28, 2025 10:14am Oct 28, 2025 10:14am
Quoting medici
{quote} Yes, you were, because you were making sweeping generalisations. {quote} Again, you have no clue what you are talking about. What you don't know, in particular, is the collaborative work between academic institutions and investment firms that never reaches the public eye. And you have no clue about what all the people with PhDs in exotic subjects like nuclear physics or astronomy, who get hired in droves by investment firms, are doing to justify their hefty compensation. But what I hear, or am I wrong. is that you would like your genius...
1) - Believe what you wish - I meant every non trader in academia - regardless of what you think you know when the rubber hits the road its a very different ball game - I used to be a financial adviser, access to many fund managers and I had to do a complete 180 in my thinking and approach to trading

2) - I don't have a clue, because I've never Interested myself in finding out

3) I have read a huge amount on the markets, lots of it not in print anymore or widely available to the public - I just haven't listed it, nor do I intend to

I'm not capable of being a genius, but I can read, learn and figure stuff out for myself from other geniuses who have published material on the markets

You don't have to be a genius anyway

4) Exactly what I've been showing you all

You know you've hit a nerve when people get personal and vindictive as an attack - Fraudulent lol

You're the one borrowing all the quotes and phrases from AI lol

Anyway to Noisy the thread creator - everything you need is right there on a price chart, its staring you in the face, keep it simple, you do not have to get fancy, all you have to do is follow price moves, which is deceptively simple once you see through the fog

I'm going to remove myself from the thread - Wish you well in your quest
  • #386
  • Oct 28, 2025 10:24am Oct 28, 2025 10:24am
Quoting Thtpro
{quote} 1) - Believe what you wish - I meant every non trader in academia - regardless of what you think you know when the rubber hits the road its a very different ball game - I used to be a financial adviser, access to many fund managers and I had to do a complete 180 in my thinking and approach to trading 2) - I don't have a clue, because I've never Interested myself in finding out 3) I have read a huge amount on the markets, lots of it not in print anymore or widely available to the public - I just haven't listed it, nor do I intend to I'm not...
Thanks, I have no beliefs or opinions about you personally, as I don't know you at all. I've simply protested when you've made claims that are untruthful or claimed knowledge that you don't have - all in the interest of the thread participants. So nothing personal.

Best wishes to you.
  • #387
  • Oct 28, 2025 10:39am Oct 28, 2025 10:39am
Quoting Noisy
{quote} It doesn't have to be an algorithmic system per se, but if it requires manual execution, it must be executable within the limited time available to me each day and lead to the required results overall. Yes, depression and anxiety are shit, and you'd probably say that trading isn't the right thing. The thing is, everything else offers little alternative to what I imagine a successful/independent life to be. As I said, a traditional career in a permanent job is difficult in itself because I would have a hard time finding the flexibility and...
Yes, depression and anxiety are shit,


sent you dm
  • #388
  • Oct 28, 2025 10:54am Oct 28, 2025 10:54am
Quoting Noisy
{quote} That's what I meant when I initially wrote, the feeling of knowing so much but all this knowledge has so far helped me little in achieving my trading goals. I think in trading you are not necessarily paid to know things, but to execute! And what you do execute should simply be profitable (have an advantage). I think that's the whole "secret." Still, it's surprisingly difficult to find actually something like that. (at least for me).
Just my 2cents Noisy..... I think you are expecting too much from the markets. Even just aiming for 2 percent per week is a great return.

But i get were your'e coming from. 2% on a small account ain't very sexy returns and won't cover your living expenses.... But But But, you gotta start somewhere and build it slowly.... And stop focusing on the money, the money will come.

EG, if i'm long on any pair, commodity etc and lets sat i'm in right at the start of the move and i have a 200pip target that gets hit then obviously you would think 1$ x 200pips = $200 and yes that's what i will make on the initial but i wont know the final profit as i add smaller positions along the way

The point is to stop focusing on what you might make. Hope it makes sense
  • #389
  • Oct 28, 2025 11:07am Oct 28, 2025 11:07am
Quoting T721
{quote} Just my 2cents Noisy..... I think you are expecting too much from the markets. Even just aiming for 2 percent per week is a great return. But i get were your'e coming from. 2% on a small account ain't very sexy returns and won't cover your living expenses.... But But But, you gotta start somewhere and build it slowly.... And stop focusing on the money, the money will come. EG, if i'm long on any pair, commodity etc and lets sat i'm in right at the start of the move and i have a 200pip target that gets hit then obviously you would think 1$...
I appreciate that you are trying to do your best to help others.
Learn from your mistakes and march on.
  • #390
  • Oct 28, 2025 11:28am Oct 28, 2025 11:28am
Quoting here2there
{quote} I appreciate that you are trying to do your best to help others.
i try pal, but most of the time it falls on deaf ears
  • #391
  • Oct 28, 2025 11:37am Oct 28, 2025 11:37am
Quoting T721
{quote} Just my 2cents Noisy..... I think you are expecting too much from the markets. Even just aiming for 2 percent per week is a great return. But i get were your'e coming from. 2% on a small account ain't very sexy returns and won't cover your living expenses.... But But But, you gotta start somewhere and build it slowly.... And stop focusing on the money, the money will come. EG, if i'm long on any pair, commodity etc and lets sat i'm in right at the start of the move and i have a 200pip target that gets hit then obviously you would think 1$...
IN DEED
..... means or product, as choose my tag line all this was what was in ??. I once read somewhere the stages that traders goes through,before the AHAA this is it, and the whole context was obnoxious in relation to the stage I was at ...... how all this ?, but now as I reflect the process, I pity my naiveness, innocence. This is a jungle where the strongest have the advantage of making to the other side of paradise.
MARKET ABHORS LAZINESS,DOING MY HOMEWORK ....
  • #392
  • Oct 28, 2025 11:45am Oct 28, 2025 11:45am
Quoting Noisy
{quote} I know how difficult it is, but I don't see any suitable alternative. A regular job is difficult for me (I suffer from recurring depression and panic attacks since my early 20s). What kind of employer needs such people? A regular job with a fixed salary would also not provide the financial independence I am looking for, let alone enable me to live a reasonably good life. I have no university degree and would perhaps get a little more than minimum wage if I were to apply for a job in the traditional job market here. I'd earn maybe...
Much of the discussion here has been about the markets and trading, but it's really about your life situation. Now that we've arrived at some realism on the challenges and opportunities of trading, I feel it's time to look at the real issues behind the discussion.

But it's hard to be helpful to a stranger on an online forum, however much I empathise with you. One thing that is used a lot in organisations when it comes to dealing with uncertain situations is scenario planning. Which roughly means imagining the possible future scenarios and making plans for how to handle them. I've used it myself in a previous role as a research director.

And it is also used by coaches (my partner being one of them) helping clients face an uncertain life situation. A popular approach is that designed by Bill Burnett and Bill Evans at Stanford University (see https://designingyour.life/) , In brief, it goes like this:

You will create three different five-year plans:

  1. Plan 1: The Life You’re Currently Pursuing

    1. Project your current direction into the future as if nothing major changes.

  2. Plan 2: The “If Plan 1 Were Suddenly Gone” Life

    1. Imagine that your current career or main project vanishes. What else might you love to do?

  3. Plan 3: The Wild/Out-There Life

    1. Pursue something completely different—perhaps a secret passion, a childhood dream, or a career you imagine only in your wildest moments.

The reason I am proposing this is that you may need some mental and emotional space that could release some hitherto unknown creativity and resources within you. Panic attacks and depression are both, from one perspective, signs of stuckness. What would it be like to get unstuck, disregarding for a moment your practical and financial challenges? Who could you be, what could you do? Trading is NOT the only answer. Which is why an exercise like this could be helpful.

I've attached a brief overview and instruction manual to the process, and there's lots more available online. And feel free to ask questions; I've got an expert in-house.

May or may not appeal to you, but I believe it could do wonders.

Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf Overview and Instruction Manual_ Design Your Life.pdf   67 KB | 157 downloads
  • #393
  • Oct 28, 2025 6:41pm Oct 28, 2025 6:41pm
Quoting Noisy
{quote} I've never met any traders with academic backgrounds, nor any traders without such training, who have been able to make a living from trading long-term, let alone be profitable, so I can't comment on that. I think what Thtpro was saying is that an academic background is no guarantee of success in the field, and that the majority of financial experts, analysts etc. (think of the people who discuss their forecasts and hot tips on CNBC and Bloomberg TV all day long) with academic backgrounds would fare just as poorly in trading in the long...
You wont make it to Trading for a Living under your current life situation. Fix that part first.

Inserted Video
.

...
Honesty is a very expensive gift. You wont find it in cheap people.WBuffett
  • #394
  • Oct 29, 2025 12:39am Oct 29, 2025 12:39am
I don't know if I would have made the jump to trading without what happened to me. I had nothing to lose; it neutralised the risk as it couldn't get any worse. Also, I may not be adding anything of value to this discussion or thread for you now. I might also be making you feel worse, but because of my past, if you need advice, help, give me a shout, and good luck!
  • #395
  • Oct 29, 2025 3:19am Oct 29, 2025 3:19am
Quoting emmanuel7788
{quote} You wont make it to Trading for a Living under your current life situation. Fix that part first. https://youtu.be/l5QdGbb-iZk. ...
Excellent excerpt from priceless interview. Thank you.
  • #396
  • Oct 29, 2025 4:09am Oct 29, 2025 4:09am
Quoting medici
Much of the discussion here has been about the markets and trading, but it's really about your life situation. Now that we've arrived at some realism on the challenges and opportunities of trading, I feel it's time to look at the real issues behind the discussion.


Quote
But it's hard to be helpful to a stranger on an online forum, however much I empathise with you.

Yes, that's right. I probably wouldn't even know how to help someone in my situation.

Quote
I've attached a brief overview and instruction manual to the process, and there's lots more available online. And feel free to ask questions; I've got an expert in-house. May or may not appeal to you, but I believe it could do wonders.

Thank you very much. I'll take a look at it this evening.
  • #397
  • Oct 29, 2025 4:39am Oct 29, 2025 4:39am
Quoting Noisy
{quote}
I know how difficult it is, but I don't see any suitable alternative...It's kind of frustrating.
I thought I'd say a few words of a more personal nature as a background to, and continuation of, my post last night.

You came to trading for imaginary reasons - you believed strongly that it would relieve you from the suffering over aspects of you life that you have expressed repeatedly here. Thankfully you have sobered up a bit from that dream.

Similarly, you suffer that suffering for imaginary reasons - it's all based on a story you are telling yourself repeatedly, but which is about as imaginary as your dreams about what trading could do for you.

You would probably say that it's the reality of your life, but no, there may be some facts that you use to justify your story, but for an external observer it's clear to see how you are creating expectations, both positive and negative, that make up your unhappiness narrative.

And just like you needed to wake up from your imaginary reasons for which you have been attracted to trading, you need to get out of the imaginary reasons for why you are suffering.

THAT is the way out of your predicament. Once you wake up from your unhappiness dream, you will have the imagination and resources within you to get unstuck and get started living.

That is also the purpose of an exercise such as the one posted last night - to wake people up to designing their lives instead of being stuck in false presuppositions and beliefs.

You could say that this is the job of a psychotherapist or similar, and you mentioned that you are seeing a therapist, I believe. In my view, they should have helped you out of this imaginary drama long time ago. If they are only helping you cope with suffering rather than move beyond it, maybe they are not worth their salt?

In any case, I hope you find a creative way out of your situation.
  • #398
  • Oct 29, 2025 4:42am Oct 29, 2025 4:42am
Quoting medici
{quote} Excellent excerpt from priceless interview. Thank you.
I agree. I saw some interviews with Larry Williams at the end of last year. Really good stuff. I also read his book, "Long-Term Secrets to Short-Term Trading," hoping to glean some strategies for myself, but so far, that hasn't been the case. I also don't know if most of the things these legendary traders used still work today. The markets have probably changed drastically since the early 2000s and the increasing prevalence of algorithmic trading.

"A study in 2019 showed that around 92% of trading in the Forex market was performed by trading algorithms rather than humans. And that was in 2019. So, that was already 6 years ago." | Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algorithmic_trading

In the interview excerpt, he even says himself:

41:29 "You got to be really certain you have to have a great advantage in the market, which I had at that time. The advantage doesn't exist anymore"

Furthermore, he took very high risks trades. Otherwise, such returns probably wouldn't have been possible at all. Risk and reward go hand in hand. Instead of the usual recommended 1–2% of the account’s equity that Larry would risk per trade, he would risk multiples of this.

41:41 "and we push it to the max. I don't know if I risked 30% on every trade but was a I mean you look at the contract size I had on it was large risk"
  • #399
  • Oct 29, 2025 4:50am Oct 29, 2025 4:50am
Inserted Video


00:01 "It's very difficult to trade with scared money"

09:12 "the most important thing is to start but there has to be a practical application too because when you're a Trader your income comes from capital gains and that means net net you have a a set of rules with which you're compatible that have positive expected value that you can just trade day after day after day regardless of how you feel"

11:27 "don't think of the small-minded prop trading stuff, think much bigger think about running couple hundred million dollars because it's just a mindset you can absolutely do it if you put your mindset to doing it"
  • #400
  • Oct 29, 2025 7:08am Oct 29, 2025 7:08am
Quoting medici
You need to get out of the imaginary reasons for why you are suffering.

I wouldn't say that these are just imaginary reasons holding me back from solving my problems. Problems like financial problems, anxiety, and sadness are very real for me, and I feel them every day. I'm not imagining it. It seems normal that everyone has expectations, and that these often diverge from reality, at least until the expectations become lived reality. That's called progress, which unfortunately hasn't happened for me in years. If you struggle for years but make no progress, I don't need to be a psychologist to know that this fosters frustration, stress, anxiety, and dissatisfaction.

Quote
You could say that this is the job of a psychotherapist or similar, and you mentioned that you are seeing a therapist, I believe. In my view, they should have helped you out of this imaginary drama long time ago. If they are only helping you cope with suffering rather than move beyond it, maybe they are not worth their salt? In any case, I hope you find a creative way out of your situation.

Absolutely right. I only recently found a therapist with whom I feel quite comfortable, but so far I can't see how she can specifically help with these kinds of problems. Essentially, I blame 90% of my problems on financial reasons, followed by 10% of a personal and family nature that can't be changed. For example, my father will never be able to walk again, no matter how much I wish he could. I can only accept that, and for the most part, I have. What I can't and won't accept is having to continue counting every penny and never being able to afford anything.

All the theoretical knowledge I learn all day, or try to acquire on my own, is ultimately useless if it doesn't lead to a solution. I could ask my therapist next time if she knows anything about trading and what her assessment is of whether and when I'll achieve financial freedom through it. I suspect I'll just end up with a bunch of more question marks
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