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Attachments: vsa with Malcolm
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vsa with Malcolm

Quoting HiddenGap
{quote} Being right and sitting tight, that's where the money is.
The single best thing that has ever been said in trading.

It's too easy to fall into the trap of fear of losing and to compensate you take profit quickly trying to recoup previous losses.
Small loss.

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Big Win.

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Quoting thisara1
{quote} thank you i think good for our learn price action vsa this indicator {file} {image}
it installs the templates but unfortunately no indicators are installed, you got any remedy?
Quoting Macallik
Watching a Gary Dayton video and he refers to the last bar as a No Demand bar instead of a test: {image} Based on my understanding of VSA, it doesn't fit my criteria for No Demand. The call ends up being right tho: {image} Tossing aside the labeling of the bar, I'm trying to square my perspective vs his perspective. Here's how I see them: Me: I see the 'test' bar as a test of the heavy volume bar two bars prior, and a failure to take advantage of that test is a negative action which leads to a strong move lower. Paraphrasing Gary: This is a weak...
I feel that there is simply too much volume in those bars on the right of the chart (in the orange rectangle) for it to be anything other than an aggressive Short.

Most likely Price will come back to this area to retest after the breakout to the downside in the other chart you posted, so any Shorts here may not go far.

Is it possible to know the date of this chart so I can check if price came back to retest soon after? It may be too old a chart though.
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Quoting procmail
{quote} I feel that there is simply too much volume in those bars on the right of the chart (in the orange rectangle) for it to be anything other than an aggressive Short. Most likely Price will come back to this area to retest after the breakout to the downside in the other chart you posted, so any Shorts here may not go far. Is it possible to know the date of this chart so I can check if price came back to retest soon after? It may be too old a chart though. {image}
It's a very old chart. Also because it was part of the 'Deliberate Practice' section, Gary picks a random day and doesn't say which day it is so that the audience is less likely to cheat and look up the chart themselves. I do have a screenshot of the chart more fully developed tho:
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Any tips on getting rid of long term bias, to trade on opposite side of long term trend on smaller timeframes?
Holy Grail - Patience and Acceptance
  • Post #36,307
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  • Edited Aug 23, 2024 1:45am Aug 22, 2024 10:36pm | Edited Aug 23, 2024 1:45am
Quoting Macallik
{quote} It's a very old chart. Also because it was part of the 'Deliberate Practice' section, Gary picks a random day and doesn't say which day it is so that the audience is less likely to cheat and look up the chart themselves. I do have a screenshot of the chart more fully developed tho: {image}
Thanks for the chart. Looks like price indeed went back to test.
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EU
Classic 2 Bar reversal from Wednesday's UHV Zone Middle. Just before the news
Holy Grail - Patience and Acceptance
Quoting bluesoul
{image} EU Classic 2 Bar reversal from Wednesday's UHV Zone Middle. Just before the news
Very nice setup and relating to your question it seems like you can use this as an example to trade against long term bias.

On that chart I can see 3 short entries because we are expecting price to come back and test the volume on the 21st. If youre trading against the strength then you have to have a clear exit plan and definitely want to trade smaller positions.

It's up to you whether you want to hold your counter trend positions in case price pushes down and through the strength or if you just want to TP for some quick pips.
Quoting Anotan
{quote} Very nice setup and relating to your question it seems like you can use this as an example to trade against long term bias. On that chart I can see 3 short entries because we are expecting price to come back and test the volume on the 21st. If youre trading against the strength then you have to have a clear exit plan and definitely want to trade smaller positions. It's up to you whether you want to hold your counter trend positions in case price pushes down and through the strength or if you just want to TP for some quick pips.
Thanks,

You ae right.
I have issue with psychological bias. It feels much easier to trade in direction long term strength or weakness.
even if I take the trade in opposite direction I exit too early.
I was thinking to start hedging to overcome this bias.

Why I want this, is because it takes much longer for me to change the bias when long term trend changes. And usually it happen on weakness, where I feel that its temporary weakness, and by the time i am convinced that its real weakness, trend is already over.
That's the reason I am good at taking longs, and my results for shorts are not good. I am not sure if other people face similar issue, but I specifically have issue with shorts.
Holy Grail - Patience and Acceptance
Don't get me wrong, Im not trying to talk shit.. But on another thread there is a trader talking about how most successful traders only go for 1RR trades. I couldn't disagree more, I'll admit that its frustrating when a trade thats close to 2R then comes back on you. Then there will be other times when you're carrying multiple trades that are 3R+. Those times will dwarf any missed opportunities, don't forget Jessie Livermore most famous quote.
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Quoting Anotan
{quote} If you're trading against the strength then you have to have a clear exit plan and definitely want to trade smaller positions. It's up to you whether you want to hold your counter trend positions in case price pushes down and through the strength or if you just want to TP for some quick pips.(Emphasis added)
While this is technically correct, I am not a fan of varying position size. If one trades 4 contracts with the trend and 1 contract when trading counter trend, what they are saying is that a counter trend trade is only 1/4 as good as a trend trade. Otherwise, why would the size be different? Well if you "know" the trade is only 1/4 as good as another trader, why are you taking it in the first place? Especially given the fact that you are going to be wrong more than you're going to be right. That's the nature of trading.

See Anotan's post above.

You can be a successful trader winning 4 trades and losing 6 trades out of 10 (40% win rate). You only need three things:
1. The mentality to take trade 7 after 6 straight losses.
2. The bankroll to be able to take trade 7 after 6 straight losses.
3. The skill to sit tight when you're right.
Wyckoff VSA: Always FIBbing, but never lying.
Quoting Anotan
Don't get me wrong, Im not trying to talk shit.. But on another thread there is a trader talking about how most successful traders only go for 1RR trades. I couldn't disagree more, I'll admit that its frustrating when a trade thats close to 2R then comes back on you. Then there will be other times when you're carrying multiple trades that are 3R+. Those times will dwarf any missed opportunities, don't forget Jessie Livermore most famous quote. {image}
interesting take.
what was your SL & criteria for SL in this setup?
Holy Grail - Patience and Acceptance
Quoting HiddenGap
{quote} While this is technically correct, I am not a fan of varying position size. If one trades 4 contracts with the trend and 1 contract when trading counter trend, what they are saying is that a counter trend trade is only 1/4 as good as a trend trade. Otherwise, why would the size be different? Well if you "know" the trade is only 1/4 as good as another trader, why are you taking it in the first place? Especially given the fact that you are going to be wrong more than you're going to be right. That's the nature of trading. See Anotan's post...
Good Critique.

what is your opinion in general about trading against strength.

here is example.
H1 & H4 (strength in Uptrend with SOS)
M15 & M5 (downtrend and SOW, or pullbacks)

i have issue with Shorts, i wait too long for reversal after an uptrend. and usually miss the usual aggressive down moves even after clear SOW.
IMO its some psychological issue, that i cant change the bias from uptrend to downtrend as it is happening. On the other hand i have very good results on longs. And can easily take aggressive long entries after selling climaxes/SOS,
Can take good entries for long just before the breakout as well as adding to position after test.

To address this issue i thought of start taking trades against the trend.
Holy Grail - Patience and Acceptance
Quoting bluesoul
{quote} interesting take. what was your SL & criteria for SL in this setup?
That particular setup I probably used a SL that was 75% of the range of the highest volume bar.

I use variations of the spread of the high volume bar, depending on pair, spread of the bar and how volatile price has been.

E/U and A/U are relatively calm pairs so I'd use 0.75-1 x the range. Something a little more volatile like e/a I'd go 1.25 x range. With how crazy Jpy has been probably 1.25 as well. Or if the range is super wide I might go 0.25-0.33.
Quoting bluesoul
Good Critique. what is your opinion in general about trading against strength.
With respect to trading against strength, I do not try to do it. I want to be long when the market is moving UP and I want to be short when the market is moving DOWN. I don't pick tops and bottoms; I let them pick themselves. I am a trend trader.

Quoting bluesoul
here is example. H1 & H4 (strength in Uptrend with SOS) M15 & M5 (downtrend and SOW, or pullbacks) i have issue with Shorts, i wait too long for reversal after an uptrend.
I assume you're trading off the M5 chart. For me, the H4 would not be of any concern: it's too far removed from the M5. And by definition, the M5 will always change before the H4 changes direction. If I was using a higher timeframe chart, it would be the H1 (see Anotan's posts) for direction and the M5 for "timing".

Personally, I only look at one timeframe, the M3. I use other means to determine trend (i.e. Indicators). For example, I only trade long when price is above VWAP and I only trade short when price is below VWAP. That does not mean that price cannot go UP from below VWAP, It just means if price goes UP, it will do so without me.
Wyckoff VSA: Always FIBbing, but never lying.
I am a VSA trader too.. I think. I am not too familiar with all the terms like test uptrust etc. I am but use a bit of my own style which is just wait for high volume at POI's. But I must say since I applied HVZ's my trading has improved. I really liked to read some posts in this threat. Hereby my trade today with the HVZ. I wanted to short USD and long CHF, however CHF reversed and i just observed for now.
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How certain are you? I am not uncertain
Quoting SP020
I am a VSA trader too.. I think. I am not too familiar with all the terms like test uptrust etc. I am but use a bit of my own style which is just wait for high volume at POI's. But I must say since I applied HVZ's my trading has improved. I really liked to read some posts in this threat. Hereby my trade today with the HVZ. I wanted to short USD and long CHF, however CHF reversed and i just observed for now. {image} {image}

where can i found that VSA trading system ( indecators)?
Quoting SP020
I ...But I must say since I applied HVZ's my trading has improved (Emphasis added).
High Volume Zones (HVZs) are key. Read Anotan's post to get insight/instruction on how a real pro uses them. Also take a look at Pres 78's Journal on VZA, which I maintain, is a distinction without a difference (from VSA).
Wyckoff VSA: Always FIBbing, but never lying.
Quoting HiddenGap
{quote} High Volume Zones (HVZs) are key. Read Anotan's post to get insight/instruction on how a real pro uses them. Also take a look at Pres 78's Journal on VZA, which I maintain, is a distinction without a difference (from VSA).
I'm using fair value gaps trading in the direction of the 5 min trend and entering on the 1 min. I'm trading more the way of cyberforex all vsa apart from the fvg
Hvz are great
Kind regards
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