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Anyone trading with a Prop firm 4 replies

prop firm new model - my trading journey 871 replies

So I accepted a Prop Trading job in South Beach Miami 43 replies

Attachments: Prop Firm Hub
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Prop Firm Hub

[quote=noox;14960168]{quote} The payoff is so low that it doesn't even produce minimum wage. The part where I talk about spending an additional half an hour per day on the Darwinex account will get you €40 per hour during the next 5 months. If you spend only 10 minutes per day it's still only €120 per hour spent. At this rate I question if it's even worth the trouble. And don't forget that for this €120 you will have to trade perfectly without any mistakes or you'll be in timeout for at least a month. Then your hourly rate plummets back to minimum wage.

I apprechiate your comment and therefore it is good that everybody can choose where and how they spen their time. Personally I have time and interest for doing also Darwinex along with my personal account and other props. Maybe I am not utilising my personal account 100% but I am still happy with results and freedom to do what I like.
Quoting noox
Here's another alternative way looking at this. You'll have to spend €170 until the end of year on your Darwinex Zero account no matter what and only in January you'll be paid maybe. €170 will buy you a 20k The5%ers or 10k FTMO account (fuck I forgot how expensive FTMO is) If you don't do anything crazy just spend the next 2 months until end of Sept to pass which any decent trader could do (but they won't because most would rather play the lottery) you'll start earning multiples of these Darwinex accounts. And you'll be paid bi-weekly not quarterly....
That is definately way to go for you then
Quoting noox
{quote} I have my doubts about any serious operator accepting a metatrader track record even if it's from Darwinex. It's also worth noting that in order to get the minimum allocation you'd have to do this full time at an exemplary level. It's not like a lawyer or doctor or engineer can get to even minimum seed money in their spare time. I've been doing this for three decades as a full time job and I'm fully convinced that it is not possible to maintain this level of perfection without continuously sitting in front of the computer day in day out....
Darwinex's track record may not be perfect, but it's quite good. There haven't been many changes since 2007; the track record is either on myfxbook or FF TE. However, Darwinex is special because it has accumulated data over a long period. Without a track record, there is no proof of anything. That's all I know. No one can do it for years without sufficient financial backing, and fortunately, I trade only as a form of meditation—it’s enjoyable to learn something as a hobby. As for my main job, I have a paid profession according to my field. I've made money from trading a few times and lost a few times, but I haven't been consistent to make it a main livelihood. I'm still bad at trading.

Regarding FTMO, Sixers, and others, they are no longer my focus since broker-backed prop firms have emerged.

When it comes to diversification, I have a different understanding from everyone else. There’s no diversification if it’s all in the same Titanic. Diversification, for me, means having a lot of cash in a bank account, putting it in a time deposit, or buying government bonds. That’s it. You can have some gold or silver too.
MT4 latest build: 1420 (23/05/2024)
Quoting RoelsMajor
{quote} Darwinex's track record may not be perfect, but it's quite good. There haven't been many changes since 2007; the track record is either on myfxbook or FF TE. However, Darwinex is special because it has accumulated data over a long period. Without a track record, there is no proof of anything. That's all I know. No one can do it for years without sufficient financial backing, and fortunately, I trade only as a form of meditation—it’s enjoyable to learn something as a hobby. As for my main job, I have a paid profession according to my field....
Once again, zero is barely a year in existence. I've stated before, I built FTMO (since 2020), MFF (2021), TFTP and TFF (since 2022). Although I made money, I have zero AUM now, MFF shut down, 2 out of business, FTMO no longer accepts US traders and has me on some shit platform.........so no income stream at all from 3+ years of work.......so,
if Darwinexzero existed when I started in 2020, and I chose that route instead, I am 10,000% confident in the fact, I'd be enjoying the fruits of my labor currently vs. having zero AUM.
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Once again, zero is barely a year in existence. I've stated before, I built FTMO (since 2020), MFF (2021), TFTP and TFF (since 2022). Although I made money, I have zero AUM now, MFF shut down, 2 out of business, FTMO no longer accepts US traders and has me on some shit platform.........so no income stream at all from 3+ years of work.......so, if Darwinexzero existed when I started in 2020, and I chose that route instead, I am 10,000% confident in the fact, I'd be enjoying the fruits of my labor currently vs. having zero AUM.
That's what I mentioned in post #40,525: focus now only on broker-backed prop firms. At least, if you succeed, there's a guaranteed payout, even though they are not perfect and still expensive. Even if some say the chances of success are only 1%, it's better if that 1% is a dream of managing a $1 million AUM rather than a 99% chance of success but only with $10k.
MT4 latest build: 1420 (23/05/2024)
Quoting kalastaja
{quote} By protecting investors Darwinex will fill your pockets faster as well. If investors find Darwinex model reliable and profotable it will attract more investors. I wouldn’t give a dime to trader whos only objective is to fill his own pockets. Tradiotional prop models suits better for that. Both, prop company and trader are just trying to milk each other. Trading investors money requires different, patient attitude.
I did this calculation earlier.

Currently after 13 days in darwinex zero, my stats are :

3.87 % returns

3.19 % max draw down.

And with 2 more days to go to complete calibration, If i trade in the same way, in silver stage, I will be eligible for 30000 euro account.

But,

Neither me, nor you know , nor Darwinex themselves know what risk engine black box is going to do with these numbers.

Having said, if i gain 30k account, i will get 15 % share, which is roughly 500 euros

However, in a traditional FTMO/FXIFY model , if i do in the same way, ( which is 0.35 % in a day with max DD of 3.19 % )

My profit would be 20 days x 0.35 % = 7 % ( 7000 usd ). My share would be 0.8 x 7k = 5.6 k.

So, Darwinex model has just helped me to trade in a better way in traditional ftmo/fxify model.

The big negatives in Darwinex are :

1. No objectives ( If there is objective, trader can correct his trading, lot size )

2. No idea what risk engine will do

3. No idea how long it will take earn 30k account ( as i understand my numbers will be compared with other darwins )

4. 15 % share is too low.

5. The only advantage, i see is darwinex is reputed compared to ftmo or fxify. 15 % share payout is guaranteed
Intraday only.
Quoting navk
{quote} I did this calculation earlier. Currently after 13 days in darwinex zero, my stats are : 3.87 % returns 3.19 $ max draw down. And with 2 more days to go to complete calibration, If i trade in the same way, in silver stage, I will be eligible for 30000 euro account. But, Neither me, nor you know , nor Darwinex themselves know what risk engine black box is going to do with these numbers. Having said, if i gain 30k account, i will get 15 % share, which is roughly 500 euros However, in a traditional FTMO/FXIFY model , if i do in the same way,...
FTMO you can't use MT4 and FXIFY a lot reports of payout denial.

For:
#1. One of their goals is to limit losses to only -6.5% per month while aiming for a 5% monthly return, but this count is flawed in finance. A -6.5% loss requires around +6.7% or 6.8% gain to recover. It might seem small, but if the loss reaches -50%, it requires a 100% recovery to break even.
#2. I agree with this point. Instead of stopping trading when the D-Leverage exceeds 9.75, Darwinex does nothing. They might not understand basic risk calculation methods as taught by hanover. Old knowledge but it is gold.
#3. About 2 months possible.
#4. Agree.
#5. Not agreeing with that, but I do agree with the part about guaranteed payment.
MT4 latest build: 1420 (23/05/2024)
Quoting RoelsMajor
{quote} FTMO you can't use MT4 and FXIFY a lot reports of payout denial. For: #1. One of their goals is to limit losses to only -6.5% per month while aiming for a 5% monthly return, but this count is flawed in finance. A -6.5% loss requires around +6.7% or 6.8% gain to recover. It might seem small, but if the loss reaches -50%, it requires a 100% recovery to break even. #2. I agree with this point. Instead of stopping trading when the D-Leverage exceeds 9.75, Darwinex does nothing. They might not understand basic risk calculation methods as taught...
Does it take 2 months to attain 30k funding ? by silver

Can you explain pls little more.

I read somewhere that 8 months participation is needed to gold stage
Intraday only.
Quoting kalastaja
I am not pointing out anyone but this thread clearly shows why so few actually make it in trading. Instead of concentrating flaws in own trading people like to find problems in systems they are freely using. It is of course good that there is discussions and debates about what is wrong, what one doesn’t like etc but generally it is much more productive to concentrate on things one can actually change. Everyone here are probably better than average trader but also nobody or just maybe few are really good. Really good traders don’t spend time in forums...
No worries, bro. We’re here to learn just as you did when you investigated Darwinex back in 2016. It’s all good.

Quoting navk
{quote} Does it take 2 months to attain 30k funding ? by silver Can you explain pls little more. I read somewhere that 8 months participation is needed to gold stage
Minimum funding of 30k Euro typically around two months in Silver, as experienced by Fisher and Pip, and for reaching Gold, is it about 8 months.
MT4 latest build: 1420 (23/05/2024)
Quoting navk
{quote} I did this calculation earlier. Currently after 13 days in darwinex zero, my stats are : 3.87 % returns 3.19 $ max draw down. And with 2 more days to go to complete calibration, If i trade in the same way, in silver stage, I will be eligible for 30000 euro account. But, Neither me, nor you know , nor Darwinex themselves know what risk engine black box is going to do with these numbers. Having said, if i gain 30k account, i will get 15 % share, which is roughly 500 euros However, in a traditional FTMO/FXIFY model , if i do in the same way,...
If you feel the model is unfair and your stats will provide better results with traditional props it would be logical to go with traditional companies.

I also feel it is a arrogant to say that Darwinex has no idea how their ” risk engine” works. I think they know.

For me it is really difficult to understand why somebody signs with the company and keeps paying the fees and at the same time they keep pointing that rules are unfair.

On the other hand it also stupid keep posting my views here. I don’t know any better than anyone else.
Quoting kalastaja
{quote} If you feel the model is unfair and your stats will provide better results with traditional props it would be logical to go with traditional companies. I also feel it is a arrogant to say that Darwinex has no idea how their ” risk engine” works. I think they know. For me it is really difficult to understand why somebody signs with the company and keeps paying the fees and at the same time they keep pointing that rules are unfair.
The risk engine to me is the biggest culprit, the reason being as some one said, the trader continues with higher size lot as there is no warning from risk engine or cutting down trades are not visible to trader.

The trader continues to trade and does not know what is happeneing at the back office.

Having said, I would continue with this model for some more time until I see it is totally not worth it.
Intraday only.
It is not negativity as you call, but the reality is one never knows what the risk engine going to do at your account, but it tells You after doing it.
Yes, it is important you protect investor capital, but tell me how risk engine measures so that i stop trading big lot size, or atleast a warning pop up.

I mean some guidelines to protect my subscription fee too.

For you, the investor capital is important, for me, subscription fee as well as making some reasonable money is important
Intraday only.
Quoting navk
It is not negativity as you call, but the reality is one never knows what the risk engine going to do at your account, but it tells You after doing it. Yes, it is important you protect investor capital, but tell me how risk engine measures so that i stop trading big lot size, or atleast a warning pop up. I mean some guidelines to protect my subscription fee too. For you, the investor capital is important, for me, subscription fee as well as making some reasonable money is important
You do make some valid points to be fair to you.
As you gain more experience with the platform it will become evident how other elements to it just don't add up such as VAR and Capacity.

They have this slightly weird way of measuring leverage and what they call divergence which I take to mean slippage. Basically a good return on a cash account per trade (maybe 1%) is probably too high, they seem to prefer 0.1% and greater than 10 pips and 10 minutes.

This might work for zero accounts but I'd have to be trading a £1m cash account to make it worthwhile for me.

I still trade a cash account with them and I get allocations but my capacity is so small I just trade how I want to and have stopped trying to reverse engineer my Strats for them. I think as a trader with a few years trying to figure them out that is the very worst kind of rabbit hole you disappear down.

If your Strat doesn't fit for them just move on would be my advice.....
Quoting navk
{quoteThe trader continues to trade and does not know what is happeneing at the back office
Once your Darwin Index is created you know exactly what's happening with every single trade. It literally shows you on your Darwin page exactly how much of your trade is activated. You're just not doing the research or listening to what others have already stated. Just hell bent on being a victim. It's tiresome.
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
Quoting Expo33
{quote} Once your Darwin Index is created you know exactly what's happening with every single trade. It literally shows you on your Darwin page exactly how much of your trade is activated. You're just not doing the research or listening to what others have already stated. Just hell bent on being a victim. It's tiresome.
How does Darwin distinguish two individuals that make both, for example, 20 trades and one has something like 3% profit with 3% DD, while the other has 10% profit and 10% DD. Both cases are like "coin flips" but one loses much less in %.
How does the model values this compared with the riskier (but better performance) one ?
Quoting Expo33
{quote} Once your Darwin Index is created you know exactly what's happening with every single trade. It literally shows you on your Darwin page exactly how much of your trade is activated. You're just not doing the research or listening to what others have already stated. Just hell bent on being a victim. It's tiresome.
let me see if it happens after every trade closure atleast after darwin creation
Intraday only.
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} How does Darwin distinguish two individuals that make both, for example, 20 trades and one has something like 3% profit with 3% DD, while the other has 10% profit and 10% DD. Both cases are like "coin flips" but one loses much less in %. How does the model values this compared with the riskier (but better performance) one ?
Based on D-Leverage. Risk is all calculated based on leverage used. Realized and Unrealized P&L has no value.
If your D-leverage is less lets say I trade 0.1 lot on 100K account no matter what stop loss I put my future or current P&L will not get even close to 1% of account drawdown in single day where as If I 10 lots and have 5 pip stop even though my loss in theory is like 0.5% it is still risky as market may gap down 100 points without even acknowledging stops.
Traders on Darwinex misunderstands risk as SL has nothing to do with risk.
Quoting sampat
{quote} Based on D-Leverage. Risk is all calculated based on leverage used. Realized and Unrealized P&L has no value. If your D-leverage is less lets say I trade 0.1 lot on 100K account no matter what stop loss I put my future or current P&L will not get even close to 1% of account drawdown in single day where as If I 10 lots and have 5 pip stop even though my loss in theory is like 0.5% it is still risky as market may gap down 100 points without even acknowledging stops. Traders on Darwinex misunderstands risk as SL has nothing to do with risk....
I can't state this enough.......if you are a reasonable trader, using reasonable leverage, do not allow losses to run away from you and you are profitable (even minimal) .......you should do fantastic with Darwinex.
Now, what one deems reasonable will vary........
Leverage: 2;1, maybe 3:1
Losses; 0.5%, I prefer 0.3%
I am just grinding 2-3% per month using the above parameters and the risk engine seems to "like" me.
Bang Asian 2 trades in the first hour of market open....

Done for the DAY - TOTALLING - 10972$ - 150kx12

1. For the oldest account i have increased the size as its close to 20k profits so enough room to risk more. so will be targetting 2k to 3k on it per day..........
2. Also there is a stupid thing i did on friday was greedy for the august 15 payout cycle so tried to clear the threshold for two account on friday unfortunately lost them..........


EDIT - SO much volatility free money trades in this open hours... pulled a quick 200$ win so totalling - 13303.6$ and officially done for the day as i hit max profit targets....
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Extreme gut feeling trader
Quoting montygoldy
Bang Asian 2 trades in the first hour of market open.... Done for the DAY - TOTALLING - 10972$ - 150kx12 1. For the oldest account i have increased the size as its close to 20k profits so enough room to risk more. so will be targetting 2k to 3k on it per day.......... 2. Also there is a stupid thing i did on friday was greedy for the...
Nice, what a bang!
One question for your $2,660.70, won't it be flag for inconsistency?
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