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Anyone trading with a Prop firm 6 replies

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Quoting Takisd
{quote} Yeh this isn't true. I can game the futures firms fairly easily its just expensive compared to cfds. And now that the race to the bottom is slowly starting in futures it will only get easier to game.
Absolutely not. It's very easy to say "I can do this easily" without explaining anything concrete. Either you explain how you do it, or for me it simply means that it's just wind.

But I can assure you that you will be never able to game the system Topstep ON THE LONG RUN. And as a proof, why do you think they have been there for over 10 years ? Simply because geniuses like you failed to fault them.

By the way, I happily listen to how you could gamify them.
Quoting Nehemah
{quote} Absolutely not. It's very easy to say "I can do this easily" without explaining anything concrete. Either you explain how you do it, or for me it simply means that it's just wind. But I can assure you that you will be never able to game the system Topstep ON THE LONG RUN. And as a proof, why do you think they have been there for over 10 years ? Simply because geniuses like you failed to fault them. By the way, I happily listen to how you could gamify them.
get a broker account for futures and the ability to do 8th grade math and you will figure it out.

Topstep have been in the game for ages because they have had little interest in their product. Now that the product has far more interest the people who completed high school will start to game them and they will have to adapt.

MFFU is the easiest futures firm to game. Followed by apex but as I said it’s expensive compared to cfds due to margin requirements on the hedge.
Quoting Takisd
{quote} get a broker account for futures and the ability to do 8th grade math and you will figure it out. Topstep have been in the game for ages because they have had little interest in their product. Now that the product has far more interest the people who completed high school will start to game them and they will have to adapt. MFFU is the easiest futures firm to game. Followed by apex but as I said it’s expensive compared to cfds due to margin requirements on the hedge.
I assure you that you will not beat Topstep this way. In the long term this doesn't work. Their genius is to have solved the problem with a very simple rule (the 5 winning days at $200) If we add the rest, to win you will have to be a profitable trader.
Yes it's different with MFFU but not so easy too (you may be able to get there but it will be a waste of time compared to the output obtained)
Quoting Nehemah
{quote} I assure you that you will not beat Topstep this way. In the long term this doesn't work. Their genius is to have solved the problem with a very simple rule (the 5 winning days at $200) If we add the rest, to win you will have to be a profitable trader. Yes it's different with MFFU but not so easy too (you may be able to get there but it will be a waste of time compared to the output obtained)
Again, 8th grade math bro. Try again.
Quoting Takisd
Topstep have been in the game for ages because they have had little interest in their product.
This guy’s idea of "logic" certainly makes for a pretty entertaining read through the forum.
Quoting Quickly
This guy’s idea of "logic" certainly makes for a pretty entertaining read through the forum.

I’m not sure what he actually intended to say, but those of us posting here in our third language (which I think is true for Takisd just as it is for me) are allowed the occasional slip-up, you know. English is not everyone’s mother tongue.
Check web traffic data and both of you fuck off. Snide gimpy fucks.
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Again, 8th grade math bro. Try again.
This requires absolutely no special skills. No derivatives, no integration, not even a simple function. Your 8th grade story makes me laugh.
Unfortunalety for you, a few additions are enough.
Quoting Expo33
{quote} I completely understand why the risk engine is there and it makes perfect sense. I don't see how my rating can drop from 75 to 66 overnight when the market was closed and I didn't even trade. For the last 3 weeks of May I traded between 1.5 -2.5 lots max and my rating fluctuated between 75.5 and 76.5 and was directly related to the profit. So I'll just keep trading that size for June until the engine recalibrates me back to 1.0 and then I'll stick to the same lot sizes and that will be plenty of leverage going forward. It looks like your...
Darwinex doesn't have 8% max loss rule.
In order to qualify for gold status from silver and get investors money one needs following criteria
1. Alteast 8 months of track record
2. Minimum 20% of overall profit
3. Drawdown to profit ratio should be 2.5 which means if profit is 20% you need at max 8% drawdown
if loss is 10% you need 25% profit. Multiply drawdown with 2.5
All ratings gets rest at the start of month.
Quoting sampat
{quote} Darwinex doesn't have 8% max loss rule. In order to qualify for gold status from silver and get investors money one needs following criteria 1. Alteast 8 months of track record 2. Minimum 20% of overall profit 3. Drawdown to profit ratio should be 2.5 which means if profit is 20% you need at max 8% drawdown if loss is 10% you need 25% profit. Multiply drawdown with 2.5 All ratings gets rest at the start of month.
And if you get 75 after your first month in Silver, you get your first allocation ? Or there is too some restrictions and goals with the DD and the profit ?
Quoting Nehemah
{quote} And if you get 75 after your first month in Silver, you get your first allocation ? Or there is too some restrictions and goals with the DD and the profit ?
Yes 75 leads to first allocation. Calculation has inbuild way to mitigate that. For example if your drawdown is too much you need to make more profit but every thing is incorporated while calculating score.
Quoting Takisd
Check web traffic data and both of you fuck off. Snide gimpy fucks.
Funny how these same "Snide gimpy fucks" are painting TST as some pristine saint of father prop. Im old enough to remember they were regarded as a scammy joke, preying off naïve newbies. Nothing has changed other then they lost market share to other entrants to the sector.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
The thing that has changed is that the house edge was set higher. And I am surprised that a lot of people are OK this to be normalized.
From all the things they complained about the step they took was against DCA?! It's so simple, most of the money paid is from this kind of strategy.

They are much better examples that can be found, but I just simply will show a result from my work, from the time, when I was still playing with some codes in the Strategy Tester of MT4. I do not say that this is the way. Settings are overfit of course, but it can visualize how much time and growth are possible if you order is split in 3 entries.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Quoting Fisher755
{quote} No you are not, but if you exceed 8% then you will need more then 1 year for Gold status. I would definitly rather reset then. Anyways, it has only been a good month and time flys, so we can analyze more next month.
I noticed you didn't acknowledge that your rating dropped like mine. Maybe you didn't see that part of my post.

Like Sampat said, I don't see the requirements you mentioned to get to gold status. Where are you getting those parameters from? Link?

Anyways, I'm just riding the slow roller coaster. No big hurry, just trying to fully understand the program.

Cheers
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
Quoting fx_rookie
The thing that has changed is that the house edge was set higher. And I am surprised that a lot of people are OK this to be normalized. From all the things they complained about the step they took was against DCA?! It's so simple, most of the money paid is from this kind of strategy. They are much better examples that can be found, but I just simply will show a result from my work, from the time, when I was still playing with some codes in the Strategy Tester of MT4. I do not say that this is the way. Settings are overfit of course, but it can visualize...
jfc, you really are a rookie.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
Quoting Nehemah
{quote} What type of cheaters are you talking about ? I don't think there is room for cheaters on futures (considering the basic rules) Apex is immune with its non-static threshold and its 30% rule. Topstep is immune with its 50% rule in challenge and its rule of 5 winning days in funded (= min 5 x 200). Not to mention the scaling plan. The only sensitive point for me is that Topstep allows the news in funded mode. In summary, Apex doesn't need to, in theory, bother with additional and subjective rules like they have been doing. This action, in...
Cheater may be someone faking KYC, reversing trades with friends or using third part signals, for example.
Apex rules (easier and not being enforced), better prices and 20x accts attracted much more cheaters than TST. From the moment Apex will make their life more difficult they will start splitting much more between Apex, TST, MFFU and others.

Gambler is someone that has a negative expected value but due to the nature of the prop firms model (both futures and cfd) they are able to make money. In other words, the model is (badly) designed to allow someone without an hedge to make money.
Gamblers can be discouraged with proper rules, I agree with you.

I'm not very familiar with all TST rules but, for example, they don't seem to avoid one of the problems that Apex highlighted. People risking 1000 (within daily limit) to make 200. Statistically this has a 80% win rate even with a coin flip.
Same for straddling/strangling news or opening. TST rules don't seem to prevent it. I think they will start facing more problems in the next coming weeks, now that Apex became tougher in rule enforcement.
Unlike Apex topstep does have consistency during eval, so the yolo gamblers have to do it more than once.
Here's a crypto only prop firm. Guess that's a new twist on a dead horse, of sorts. Seem to be non-US based. Pretty much stock and standard website, photos, interviews, info, etc.

https://www.hyrotrader.com/
Quoting Capablanca
TST rules don't seem to prevent it. I think they will start facing more problems in the next coming weeks, now that Apex became tougher in rule enforcement.
-If we look at things objectively (which may rule some people out, automatically), then there are probably only a few changes that Apex would need to make in order to push more cheaters/gamers to other firms. A lot of these measures were spoken about in their videos, as well as potential compromises, so it seems that they are very aware of the problems and how they can fix them, and are willing to listen to user feedback regarding the what and the how etc.. This all seems like a good thing to me. Certainly, adding more rules to deter cheaters is better than removing more rules to attract non-cheaters.

Prohibiting DCA was a good move, in my opinion, even if I do not necessarily agree with the sentiment surrounding it. Any good and honest trader should still be able to remain profitable without it, so it's only going to hurt those that are using DCA-bot services; which, according to Apex, is a huge problem for them. Requiring a 3:1 R:R is very reasonable, whether their claims regarding large groups of traders using unrealistic scalping strategies to game the system are true or not. It will only help the firm to remain solvent while benefiting honest traders and forcing bad traders to be better.

Most of what I have seen, not only in terms of proposals, but their thought processes behind them, seems mostly reasonable to me. Will it be the right move over the long-term? I cannot say; only time will tell. Could this create issues where honest traders could get burned? Maybe. But at the end of the day, it's an opportunity and a privilege, not a right. It's their money and their rules. Without rules, the model would not work, or certainly, not work for very long.

As traders, we can only do our best to hold these firms accountable and insist on honesty and integrity, while doing what we can to adapt and work within whatever rules are laid out for us. The models and rules may not be perfect, but you will never satisfy everybody, no matter what you do. A firm's willingness and ability to learn and adapt may prove crucial to its long-term survival. So far, it seems that Apex is both, willing and able.
Quoting Expo33
{quote} I noticed you didn't acknowledge that your rating dropped like mine. Maybe you didn't see that part of my post. Like Sampat said, I don't see the requirements you mentioned to get to gold status. Where are you getting those parameters from? Link? Anyways, I'm just riding the slow roller coaster. No big hurry, just trying to fully understand the program. Cheers
I checked the score once again after your post and it was the same. But now when I logged out and in again I see the change yes. And after 1.5% gain in calculator I would be at 76 again so it gets easier in time. Imho average to first allocation is cca 3 month, so we did a good job.

8% first year I took a pic :
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Gold Crit.png Size: 57 KB


So if we have more, then 20% gain is not enough as Sampat said and I would not want to go over that, at least not by much-all my calculations are on 8%...and of course no hurry, flipping the account is too much risk because the risk engine is great but we must do our part also
PVSRA
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