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  • #37,261
  • Jun 1, 2024 6:57pm Jun 1, 2024 6:57pm
Quoting Expo33
I just submitted my first APEX payout request. Finished the 10 day period at $54,535 so I requested the 2K max and will have plenty of drawdown to work with going forward. Now I just have to hope the rules enforcer guy is on vacation. I got a bad feeling I might get denied. So what happens if they deny my payout? I think I read about it somewhere but that seems like too much work to research the answer. Maybe someone could spoon feed me the answer. {image}
What i have seen recently with denied payout people not sure how much truth they were spilling. But even you if you break DCA rule once you'll be denied. Also your risk reward is exellent so that wont be an issue. In the end still able to keep the profits. So in short you'll miss payout cycle thats it.
Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #37,262
  • Jun 1, 2024 7:00pm Jun 1, 2024 7:00pm
Darwinex punishes crazy on High frequency trading.
100% profit over almost 2000 trades will lead to 5.21%
I need to make around 1.9% to get 30K allocation. So I need to make around 60K to get new funding as my account grew to 200K.
My risk factor is 0.07 that means If I put 1 lot EUR/USD darwinex engine puts 0.07
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  • #37,263
  • Jun 1, 2024 7:46pm Jun 1, 2024 7:46pm
Quoting Expo33
I just submitted my first APEX payout request. Finished the 10 day period at $54,535 so I requested the 2K max and will have plenty of drawdown to work with going forward. Now I just have to hope the rules enforcer guy is on vacation. I got a bad feeling I might get denied. So what happens if they deny my payout? I think I read about it somewhere but that seems like too much work to research the answer. Maybe someone could spoon feed me the answer. {image}
You just have to go another 10d period without breaking any rules or blowing the account.
  • #37,264
  • Jun 1, 2024 8:53pm Jun 1, 2024 8:53pm
Quoting montygoldy
{quote} What i have seen recently with denied payout people not sure how much truth they were spilling. But even you if you break DCA rule once you'll be denied. Also your risk reward is exellent so that wont be an issue. In the end still able to keep the profits. So in short you'll miss payout cycle thats it.
Well overall it looks like a reasonable risk/reward but during the first week I definitely had an overleveraging "episode". As you can see the drawdown was over 1800 at one point until the big turn around kicked in.

No worries. If it's denied I'll just accept the responsibility. Then I'll go to discord and cry and tell them that when I was 12 I got bullied by a 3 year old, that Trump's a big meanie, that McDonald's is racist because they didn't pay me $57/hour to run the French fry machine, and that climate change made me trade like a degenerate and nothing is my fault.
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #37,265
  • Jun 1, 2024 8:54pm Jun 1, 2024 8:54pm
Quoting CableJ
{quote} You just have to go another 10d period without breaking any rules or blowing the account.
So I would just continue with the same balance of 54,535? Or do they smack me back down to 50K?
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #37,266
  • Jun 1, 2024 8:56pm Jun 1, 2024 8:56pm
Quoting sampat
Darwinex punishes crazy on High frequency trading. 100% profit over almost 2000 trades will lead to 5.21% I need to make around 1.9% to get 30K allocation. So I need to make around 60K to get new funding as my account grew to 200K. My risk factor is 0.07 that means If I put 1 lot EUR/USD darwinex engine puts 0.07 {image} {image}
Wow, 0.07? That makes my 0.19 look better

So is it because of the frequency of your trading or that you had a bunch of small trades opened that added up to too much overall leverage?

BTW, nice results.
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #37,267
  • Jun 1, 2024 9:12pm Jun 1, 2024 9:12pm
Quoting Expo33
{quote} Wow, 0.07? That makes my 0.19 look better So is it because of the frequency of your trading or that you had a bunch of small trades opened that added up to too much overall leverage? BTW, nice results.
I was basically scalping NQ. Yea I was trading 0.1 lot (1/20 standard futures NQ) at a time for 10 or 20 points.
At max one cannot even open more than 4 futures lot on 100K account.
All 2000 trades were opened on the span of first two weeks of calibration.
From last 2 weeks I am trading 0.01 lots and max 2 to 3 times and profiting only 5$ or 10$ daily basis but their risk engine increased 20% more.
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  • #37,268
  • Jun 1, 2024 9:13pm Jun 1, 2024 9:13pm
Quoting Expo33
{quote} So I would just continue with the same balance of 54,535? Or do they smack me back down to 50K?
you’re profits be there only you gonna miss the payout cycle. So in short build for next payout
Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #37,269
  • Jun 1, 2024 9:31pm Jun 1, 2024 9:31pm
Quoting montygoldy
{quote} you’re profits be there only you gonna miss the payout cycle. So in short build for next payout
I am hearing a lot of noise in discord forums....Looks like they will close account after 2 times DCA warning.
I am not sure what will happen to accrued profits.
Apex should have enforce rules for anything moving forward instead of going back and enforce it for older trades...This would have avoided lot of noise.
  • #37,270
  • Jun 1, 2024 10:44pm Jun 1, 2024 10:44pm
Quoting sampat
Apex should have enforce rules for anything moving forward instead of going back and enforce it for older trades...This would have avoided lot of noise.
-I think, if the rules existed prior to infraction, then it should not matter; it is up to traders to ensure that their trading is compliant.
  • #37,271
  • Jun 1, 2024 10:53pm Jun 1, 2024 10:53pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-I think, if the rules existed prior to infraction, then it should not matter; it is up to traders to ensure that their trading is compliant.
Agree but if rules are not enforced it will be treated as guidelines and people start bashing once they are enforced.
If you compare apex with top step it has much worse rules you can't even DCA with so daily loss limit of 1K and scaling plan.
Minimum 200$ day, less overall drawdown etc etc...
But do you see people bad mouthing them?
  • #37,272
  • Jun 1, 2024 11:02pm Jun 1, 2024 11:02pm
The way that I see it, is, we can either complain about Apex finally getting around to enforcing their rules, or, we can complain about the groups that are gaming the system, which has forced Apex's hand on this.

Better yet, we can choose to not complain at all and appreciate the opportunity that we have as traders.

Ultimately, if large groups of traders are using DCA-bot-copying services like Apex is claiming, then it would be in the best interest of all honest traders, and for the firm, to put a stop to it.
  • #37,273
  • Jun 1, 2024 11:34pm Jun 1, 2024 11:34pm
Quoting Expo33
{quote} So I would just continue with the same balance of 54,535? Or do they smack me back down to 50K?
trade normally with current bal & normal contract sizes for next 10d without breaking rules to hit next 15-20th payout cycle.
  • #37,274
  • Jun 1, 2024 11:54pm Jun 1, 2024 11:54pm
Quoting CableJ
{quote} trade normally with current bal & normal contract sizes for next 10d without breaking rules to hit next 15-20th payout cycle.
Thank you. I've got a decent cushion so I'll just trade very conservatively once a day.
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #37,275
  • Jun 2, 2024 12:28am Jun 2, 2024 12:28am
A lot of talk about bad traders, gamblers, etc. Some people here are naive, others just act this way. My words are for the first ones.
99,9% of all newbies do not have any chance in a long term, everyone in the industry is aware of that. Newbies are not traders and they can not be consistent, it takes years of proper education and hard work on different levels to make a trader. Go watch some of the videos from real prop firms like Axia and SMB.
Statistically some of these wannabes will get to payouts by pure luck, not because their knowledge and abilities. IF any trades are copied to live accounts, it is just to meet some regulations. This prop firm model is selling you dreams and relies on your fail.
The problem is that Apex want to limit these lucky winners and keep more money for themselves. They already are well protected with the ridiculous rule of the trailing drawdown, but it seems that this is not enough for them(remember MFF was able to pay without it).
Wake up, not Apex is the victim here, you are well manipulated. They have all the stats and big data. They are the predator, and the customers are their prey.
  • #37,276
  • Edited 1:23am Jun 2, 2024 1:08am | Edited 1:23am
Quoting Expo33
{quote} Well played! I like the risk engine concept. I just don't like that it can reduce your risk in real time day to day but then takes 45 days to "recalibrate" back to normal. I guess that's the punishment for Yoloing to get to that 75 rating I agree, the long term model looks sustainable to me. And the best part is you might not get seed/investor capital while paying the monthly fees but you NEVER lose your account so your always still in the game. Of course the...
Game on!

I have a tip for you to return the favor- the risk engine is there to protect investors , but on the other hand it protects you as well, so maybe try experimenting and playing with it. As the risk engine was moving up or down, I adjusted my lot size to it and found out as the risk was falling gradualy, my return was protected because with the same lot and on the new risk calibration with losing 6% I would still be up some change and not zero on profits. Recalculate every day and you will see. Of course now it is not the case for you because your signal account went up on risk and you were the whole tme trading the same size. If you now change the lot size drastically you will end up down if you lose recalculated 5%. So gradualy readjusting is the way to go, not fix lot for 45 days. Probably you have to play with lot size more to see it more clearly.
This is also the reason why your score droped, because mine did not. Try dancing with the risk more, yes it is there to protect the investors first, but at the same time it gives you freedom if you learn how to flow with it.

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Edit:
When you were at .10 risk engine it was very hard to blow the signal account or exceed the 8% DD right? So focus on recalculating risk, not recalculating profits -then it works for you and not against you.
PVSRA
  • #37,277
  • Jun 2, 2024 1:20am Jun 2, 2024 1:20am
Quoting Nehemah
{quote} What type of cheaters are you talking about ? I don't think there is room for cheaters on futures (considering the basic rules) Apex is immune with its non-static threshold and its 30% rule. Topstep is immune with its 50% rule in challenge and its rule of 5 winning days in funded (= min 5 x 200). Not to mention the scaling plan. The only sensitive point for me is that Topstep allows the news in funded mode. In summary, Apex doesn't need to, in theory, bother with additional and subjective rules like they have been doing. This action, in...
Yeh this isn't true. I can game the futures firms fairly easily its just expensive compared to cfds. And now that the race to the bottom is slowly starting in futures it will only get easier to game.
  • #37,278
  • Edited 1:51am Jun 2, 2024 1:38am | Edited 1:51am
Quoting Fisher755
{quote}This is also the reason why your score droped, because mine did not.
I completely understand why the risk engine is there and it makes perfect sense.

I don't see how my rating can drop from 75 to 66 overnight when the market was closed and I didn't even trade. For the last 3 weeks of May I traded between 1.5 -2.5 lots max and my rating fluctuated between 75.5 and 76.5 and was directly related to the profit. So I'll just keep trading that size for June until the engine recalibrates me back to 1.0 and then I'll stick to the same lot sizes and that will be plenty of leverage going forward.

It looks like your rating has been updated now. Your previous screenshot still said May. Look at it now it says June with the new lower rating. It makes sense though. If you use the rating calculator it takes less profit to get back to 75 than it did to get to 75 for the first seed allocation. If you use the rating calculator I bet you only need to earn about 1.5% for June to get back to 75 and earn more seed capital.
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PS. I've never seen any 8% max drawdown rule for blowing an account? Am I missing something?
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #37,279
  • Jun 2, 2024 2:01am Jun 2, 2024 2:01am
Quoting Expo33
{quote} I completely understand why the risk engine is there and it makes perfect sense. I don't see how my rating can drop from 75 to 66 overnight when the market was closed and I didn't even trade. For the last 3 weeks of May I traded between 1.5 -2.5 lots max and my rating fluctuated between 75.5 and 76.5 and was directly related to the profit. So I'll just keep trading that size for June until the engine recalibrates me back to 1.0 and then I'll stick to the same lot sizes and that will be plenty of leverage going forward. It looks like your...
No you are not, but if you exceed 8% then you will need more then 1 year for Gold status. I would definitly rather reset then.
Anyways, it has only been a good month and time flys, so we can analyze more next month.
PVSRA
  • #37,280
  • Jun 2, 2024 3:56am Jun 2, 2024 3:56am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Yeh this isn't true. I can game the futures firms fairly easily its just expensive compared to cfds. And now that the race to the bottom is slowly starting in futures it will only get easier to game.
Absolutely not. It's very easy to say "I can do this easily" without explaining anything concrete. Either you explain how you do it, or for me it simply means that it's just wind.

But I can assure you that you will be never able to game the system Topstep ON THE LONG RUN. And as a proof, why do you think they have been there for over 10 years ? Simply because geniuses like you failed to fault them.

By the way, I happily listen to how you could gamify them.
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