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  • #29,241
  • Feb 4, 2024 1:38pm Feb 4, 2024 1:38pm
Quoting Takisd
I just find the irony in this. "Prop firms are scam, but I am going to scam prop firms and milk it while it lasts".
-Don't hate the player, hate the game.
  • #29,242
  • Feb 4, 2024 2:02pm Feb 4, 2024 2:02pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Don't hate the player, hate the game.
The prop firm is only going to scam your 500 bucks. These reverse guys are looking to scam 20k from them. Who is worse? Seems the player to me.
  • #29,243
  • Feb 4, 2024 2:07pm Feb 4, 2024 2:07pm
Quoting Thomas.
In the long run you should think about other ways to maximize your trading. For example copy trading where people can connect their trading acccounts and copy your trades into their Account, you receive a 30% performnace fee. If you trade succesfully, you can have large ammounts of capital under management and play your own rules. I personally think its much better then prop Firms
Hello Thomas;

I trust you're well.

Your point certainly has merits but would you not agree that as opposed to placing more or less importance in one model over the other it would be prudent to hedge oneself across a spectrum of instruments/ vehicles available to generate income?

After all, copy trading/strategy provider accounts require a considerable dataset prior to anyone willing to link their account to the strategy provider account. If the Trader concerned is trading the prop account with the express intent of building up a client list in future he will earn an income whilst building up the data which prospective clients can consider.

The copy trading platforms are generally also saturated with a considerable number of "established" strategy providers which will result in new customers favouring the "older" existing providers with multi-year track records as opposed to new market entrants.
My success is due to The Great Napoleon Hill. May His Name Live Forever
  • #29,244
  • Feb 4, 2024 2:13pm Feb 4, 2024 2:13pm
Quoting TrAndy1
Is that the begin of the end of any existing prop firm, if that becomes widespreaded enough ? https://propea.net/ Reverse trading across accounts with personal broker live account involved for reversing. Now easy to go setup all automated with the above EA. The big problem for props is that if this offer gets too much attention with this reverse trading across accounts, with broker personal live account involved, then any prop firm could go bankrupt, as they rely on the mass of failed challenges to pay any payouts out of the captured...
I love the idea behind this EA but it seems to me like you can do these calculations manually in a simple excel sheet, take the reversal trades manually on both accounts and avoid getting banned because you used a publicly available EA.
  • #29,245
  • Feb 4, 2024 2:52pm Feb 4, 2024 2:52pm
Quoting Takisd
The prop firm is only going to scam your 500 bucks. These reverse guys are looking to scam 20k from them. Who is worse? Seems the player to me.
-Well, I was only joking. But it's still the game, in my opinion. After all, the prop firm is doing what, exactly? That 20K is not hard-earned, nor is it really coming from the prop. It is up to the props to make sure that traders cannot cheat. We accept this reality.
  • #29,246
  • Feb 4, 2024 3:09pm Feb 4, 2024 3:09pm
Quoting navk
{quote} Yes, what I am trying to say is everyone will be ( or required to ) doing their calculations. Others need not get into that. No benifit of checking other's profit/loss.
thats why i had a lot of question marks in it.
i did only wonder why invest so much money in prop against make money fast and bigger with real accounts.

often i am impressed about why people do and their calculations.

and i dont tell them the other ways. they have of course to learn by their own what matches and suites them.

but i learn also by this, because often people do things what make not a lot of sense and have some reasons behind other people dont have. and this is interesting to know.
  • #29,247
  • Feb 4, 2024 3:14pm Feb 4, 2024 3:14pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} No sense at all to compare prop numbers with real trading account number. It's two completely different "business models".
you can easy compare. very easy. its only simple math with fixed numbers and some with expectation values. same like trading.
of course you cant exactly compare how much prop will destroy your trading habits (how much is this worth in money, how good was trading habits on begin... how much person did grow same tie......, or how much time you need in prop for get your money... but thats why interesting to read.

many forget often in trading to calculate also all opportunity costs inside to make a fair comparing. same in trading , opportunity costs is what counts a lot.

the good thing by asking questions is, you see if someone know about what he is doing. and looks like montygoldy did know about anything and is on his path like he planed. so his answer was on the point.
  • #29,248
  • Feb 4, 2024 3:36pm Feb 4, 2024 3:36pm
This propea or any other formula doesn't change nothing. It is all about gaming mentality and get rich quick. There is no shortcuts long-term, only short term. What loosing trader who will get his first payout with help of EA do?? he will think he got his holy grail now, he will buy new challenges and fail. Simple as that. It is same with trading, poker etc it's all mental and psychology game. Only people who will stick to long-term process and trying to be better trader next month, year will survive.
  • #29,249
  • Feb 4, 2024 3:39pm Feb 4, 2024 3:39pm
Quoting youngD
This propea or any other formula doesn't change nothing. It is all about gaming mentality and get rich quick. There is no shortcuts long-term, only short term. What loosing trader who will get his first payout with help of EA do?? he will think he got his holy grail now, he will buy new challenges and fail. Simple as that. It is same with trading, poker etc it's all mental and psychology game. Only people who will stick to long-term process and trying to be better trader next month, year will survive.
This is like the old saying dont dig for gold sell shovells instead, thats what those EAs are
  • #29,250
  • Feb 4, 2024 5:10pm Feb 4, 2024 5:10pm
Finally got my funded credentials and account activated by the 5ers after 6 days!

They asked me to give them a review on DisTrustPilot.

I said sure, I'd give you 6 stars if I could. One star for every day it took you to give me my funded account.

PS. Their website is ugly and slow
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #29,251
  • Feb 4, 2024 6:09pm Feb 4, 2024 6:09pm
Quoting montygoldy
{quote} Everything is possible if you put in effort and intelligence. I have known traders who have started with few thousands and now millionaires. You're just thinking and talking like 95% failed traders like this is not possible, holy grail, can't be done etc. People do not know how much 5% profitable people make in a day. Just for reference go check out Metalsmine (forexfactory sister site) --> go to aussie thread you'll come to know the real TRADING MILLIONAIRES, how they trade, and the lots they play with
but in general there are only 2 kind of winners (what i learned in live as a trader).

1: who do it long term step by step. grow slowly over decades and earn very big. here the winner percentage is very high, but because very very small amount of trader do this way, not a lot of this people exist.
2: the lucky gamblers who get fast wins. here winner percentage is very very low, but because so many try this way a lot of this people exist.

and we speak here about millions of dollar wins, not some small money.
  • #29,252
  • Feb 4, 2024 6:15pm Feb 4, 2024 6:15pm
Quoting akpalok2006
I agree with this statement. Many traders have ingrained a popular saying "No one can earn more than 5-10% monthly", but in reality there are many traders who earn beyond our thought.
depends how you calculate it.
if you calculate 10% on accounts size, then yes, but thats beginner mistake counting.
you need to calculate the 10% to all your wealth, and this not a lot of people can do. because people who do 10% a month often dont put all the money in this account, and so dont have same result like 10% for all wealth.

but in general:
you can never compare 2 traders, until you know how much wealth they have all together.
someone with 90% drawdown in 10.000 euro account can be better trader with 1 million wealth (so not even 1 % risk in his trades) against someone invested 1000 euro and has 10 euro loss in account, but invested all his money. because we dont know this informations, its useless to say when someone has 20% he is a good trader, he could be biggest loser because has other account in loss or has big wealth and small account and so total low real percentage win.

and so on..... never calculate what you cant calculate because of missing informations, one of most important rule in trading!
  • #29,253
  • Feb 4, 2024 6:38pm Feb 4, 2024 6:38pm
Quoting Trader191
{quote} but in general there are only 2 kind of winners (what i learned in live as a trader). 1: who do it long term step by step. grow slowly over decades and earn very big. here the winner percentage is very high, but because very very small amount of trader do this way, not a lot of this people exist. 2: the lucky gamblers who get fast wins. here winner percentage is very very low, but because so many try this way a lot of this people exist. and we speak here about millions of dollar wins, not some small money.
you’re talking old times my friend… times have changed…
Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #29,254
  • Feb 4, 2024 6:41pm Feb 4, 2024 6:41pm
Quoting CableJ
I love the constant subtle futures prop pushing agenda by 2 of our favorite countertrend posters... they always seem to pop up together and quote each other lol. The futures props are the same virtual/simulated casino as the fx props.... with trailing DD most traders blow up before they get pushed to a live account & quite a few of the futures props like Apex and Bulenox never go to live accounts.
Karl was "only" in funds working or like this. so he is not very experienced in trading private money.
he dont know about when to use cfd or futures, what is better because of what reason for what time frame and what trading products, what is the risk , how to avoid it and so on.

so all his answers are a product of this unfortunately, i tried to help him with some of his wrong statements already, but he cant learn more (maybe to old already and blocks new informations and even dont want inform about his own statements).

but to protect him, maybe he learned it in funds this way in last decades, because of regulations they can sometimes (depends how you create the fund) only trade futures or other exchange products, so he dont know about the other facts. so from some side of funds who cant trade cfd or other products he is right (more or less). but private traders are not blocked with so much regulations to can choose the trading product more fexible, so he is often wrong with his statements for private traders.

what is total correct: with CFD you have a bet with your broker. so bring your money inside broker outside bankrupt risk (many possible ways for this) and choose a good broker when using cfd (ofcourse in prop not important because of no money deposit ).
  • #29,255
  • Feb 4, 2024 6:42pm Feb 4, 2024 6:42pm
Quoting montygoldy
{quote} you’re talking old times my friend… times have changed…
why? i never met different in my last 25 years trading.
because of crypto even more of this luck boy exists. dubai and many asian cities are full of this, near any broker event sitting around some.
  • #29,256
  • Feb 4, 2024 8:49pm Feb 4, 2024 8:49pm
Quoting Trader191
{quote} why? i never met different in my last 25 years trading. because of crypto even more of this luck boy exists. dubai and many asian cities are full of this, near any broker event sitting around some.
alright my friend lets see … i am gonna post my journey to pull 200k profits out of prop firm this year here… lets see who wins or me
Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #29,257
  • Feb 4, 2024 9:29pm Feb 4, 2024 9:29pm
Quoting montygoldy
{quote} alright my friend lets see … i am gonna post my journey to pull 200k profits out of prop firm this year here… lets see who wins or me
Monty, i have same targets as you ! we are on the same journey. Lets make it happen this year!
Drawdown is more important than Account Size !
  • #29,258
  • Feb 4, 2024 9:36pm Feb 4, 2024 9:36pm
Question whoever used alpha capital which withdrawal method is good.... i am thinking of bank transfer... rise only heard bad about them.. not sure about deel/wise....
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Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #29,259
  • Feb 4, 2024 10:25pm Feb 4, 2024 10:25pm
hi Montygoldy

thanks for share 40% off
now funded 300k alpha

i chose Rise
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  • #29,260
  • Edited 11:02pm Feb 4, 2024 10:48pm | Edited 11:02pm
Quoting montygoldy
Question whoever used alpha capital which withdrawal method is good.... i am thinking of bank transfer... rise only heard bad about them.. not sure about deel/wise.... {image}
If they have a bank transfer directly from them, I would choose that. No need to go to a middleman if you don't have to.
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