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Analysis and Trading based on Envelopes, Waves, Cycles
- #12,168
- Dec 21, 2023 4:13pm Dec 21, 2023 4:13pm
- Joined Oct 2017 | Status: Trader | 12,472 Posts
Ace more you analyze the "Delta Phenomenon " book more you are amazed by the level of plagiarism of Hurst's book and course and of bullshitting towards the honest naive customer. IMHO It is definitely a commercial scam
As Welles Wilder is really a Technical Analyst who invented some well-known indicators , it does not mean that everything that Wilders write has to be discarded.
IS THERE A STRONG COMMONALITY BETWEEN Welles Wilder's " DELTA PHENOMENON" and Jim Hurst's Cyclic Principles ?
In short "Delta " is basically a general cyclical analysis. Hurst model being itself a specific model (Hurst never alluded about this fact I will elaborate later on this subject)
Wilders camouflaged that Delta is structurally a cyclical analysis by using a vague and primitive influence / confluence of Moon and Sun on the Terrian Stock Market . This is basic " Financial Astrology " tools (whatever you think about it).
Notice that Wilders is too lazy to talk about the planets having a longer Period ( Venus , Jupiter, Saturn ) which are also basic financial astrology tool.
All of Wilders Delta methodology components are a strict decalcomany of Hurst main concepts, principles and tools
Logically as Delta methodology is basically a Phasing Analysis - what are the relative positions of the various cycles at work within Price Action - Wilders transmutes for the Dummies the Principle of Synchronicity - all cycles make their lows at the same time (within the same time period) . Then Wilders transmutes what Hurst calls " a Nest of Lows" into a "Line Up of Delta Turning Points"
The idea is, that when any DELTA turning points line up on or near the same date, it portends a big move.
How to transmute a "Nest of Lows" and the process to build it into a " Line Up of Delta Turning Points" : you just change the label. You do not use the word Cycle Low, you use" Delta Dates"
Now the Long Term Delta (LTD) date will occur in conjunction with one of 2 Medium term Delta (MTD) dates. and each MTD high date will occur in conjunction with one of 2 Intermediate Term Delta (ITD) high dates. So, you see how, by knowing the dates for each timeframe for a particular market, the timing can be dramatically improved over just knowing the longer term timeframe .The easy way to keep up with this is to put the date for each timeframe that is in view (relative to how far into the future your chart is dated) on your chart in different colors. Put the high points at the top of your chart and the low points at the bottom of your chart and it will be obvious when a line-up of DELTA turning points occurs.
Notice that the words Turning Points, Highs, Lows, Pivots have exactly the same meaning and consequences : Trend changes direction
Notice that what Hurst calls " Synchronicity " in his book Profit Magic (1970) was defined by Eward Dewey 20 years before as "Synchrony"
Another plagiarism by Wilders is the concept of "commonality" .
Hurst wrote " Summed cyclicalityis a common factor among all stocks. Cyclic commonality expresses as follows :
Existence in all issues
Similar duration
Similar relative magnitude
Time synchronization
I quote Wilders :
FAMILY GROUPS
One of the most interesting things I learned about the DELTA Phenomenon is that commodities or stocks within the same family group have the same DELTA solution!
to be continued soon
As Welles Wilder is really a Technical Analyst who invented some well-known indicators , it does not mean that everything that Wilders write has to be discarded.
IS THERE A STRONG COMMONALITY BETWEEN Welles Wilder's " DELTA PHENOMENON" and Jim Hurst's Cyclic Principles ?
In short "Delta " is basically a general cyclical analysis. Hurst model being itself a specific model (Hurst never alluded about this fact I will elaborate later on this subject)
Wilders camouflaged that Delta is structurally a cyclical analysis by using a vague and primitive influence / confluence of Moon and Sun on the Terrian Stock Market . This is basic " Financial Astrology " tools (whatever you think about it).
Notice that Wilders is too lazy to talk about the planets having a longer Period ( Venus , Jupiter, Saturn ) which are also basic financial astrology tool.
All of Wilders Delta methodology components are a strict decalcomany of Hurst main concepts, principles and tools
Logically as Delta methodology is basically a Phasing Analysis - what are the relative positions of the various cycles at work within Price Action - Wilders transmutes for the Dummies the Principle of Synchronicity - all cycles make their lows at the same time (within the same time period) . Then Wilders transmutes what Hurst calls " a Nest of Lows" into a "Line Up of Delta Turning Points"
The idea is, that when any DELTA turning points line up on or near the same date, it portends a big move.
How to transmute a "Nest of Lows" and the process to build it into a " Line Up of Delta Turning Points" : you just change the label. You do not use the word Cycle Low, you use" Delta Dates"
Now the Long Term Delta (LTD) date will occur in conjunction with one of 2 Medium term Delta (MTD) dates. and each MTD high date will occur in conjunction with one of 2 Intermediate Term Delta (ITD) high dates. So, you see how, by knowing the dates for each timeframe for a particular market, the timing can be dramatically improved over just knowing the longer term timeframe .The easy way to keep up with this is to put the date for each timeframe that is in view (relative to how far into the future your chart is dated) on your chart in different colors. Put the high points at the top of your chart and the low points at the bottom of your chart and it will be obvious when a line-up of DELTA turning points occurs.
Notice that the words Turning Points, Highs, Lows, Pivots have exactly the same meaning and consequences : Trend changes direction
Notice that what Hurst calls " Synchronicity " in his book Profit Magic (1970) was defined by Eward Dewey 20 years before as "Synchrony"
Another plagiarism by Wilders is the concept of "commonality" .
Hurst wrote " Summed cyclicalityis a common factor among all stocks. Cyclic commonality expresses as follows :
Existence in all issues
Similar duration
Similar relative magnitude
Time synchronization
I quote Wilders :
FAMILY GROUPS
One of the most interesting things I learned about the DELTA Phenomenon is that commodities or stocks within the same family group have the same DELTA solution!
to be continued soon
- #12,169
- Dec 21, 2023 4:21pm Dec 21, 2023 4:21pm
- Joined Oct 2017 | Status: Trader | 12,472 Posts
Notes on the Delta Society and the Delta System
the Delta Society and the hype around the "Delta System" whose the only aim is to part people from their money on the spot to the benefit of Wilders
Notice the process :
the ideas are generated by some Jim Sloman - unknown of the public of Technical Analysis until he contacted Wilders to sell him "the hidden secret of the markets" for ...... $ 1.000.000
Welles Wilder brings on the table his financial net and his reputation as the creator of various technical indicators, Average True Range, the Relative Strength Index (RSI), Average Directional Index, and the Parabolic SAR.[2]
average membership $3.500
Director status $35.000 then $100.000 for late comers
to justify the price you can read the argument : " Averaged over the next sixteen years, the annual cost for the DELTA information is about the cost of a good chart service...$319.00 per year."
It is interesting as justification for " give me your money right now"
the Delta Society and the hype around the "Delta System" whose the only aim is to part people from their money on the spot to the benefit of Wilders
Notice the process :
the ideas are generated by some Jim Sloman - unknown of the public of Technical Analysis until he contacted Wilders to sell him "the hidden secret of the markets" for ...... $ 1.000.000
Welles Wilder brings on the table his financial net and his reputation as the creator of various technical indicators, Average True Range, the Relative Strength Index (RSI), Average Directional Index, and the Parabolic SAR.[2]
average membership $3.500
Director status $35.000 then $100.000 for late comers
to justify the price you can read the argument : " Averaged over the next sixteen years, the annual cost for the DELTA information is about the cost of a good chart service...$319.00 per year."
It is interesting as justification for " give me your money right now"
- #12,171
- Dec 21, 2023 4:31pm Dec 21, 2023 4:31pm
- Joined Oct 2017 | Status: Trader | 12,472 Posts
After having read attentively The Delta Phenomenon. I smelled it , but it is true. This Sloman / Wilder pair was very good at taking your money from your pockets.
You know the saying "every minute a sucker is born". That is the case. They sell their "Delta Phenomenon to credulous customers motivated by greed pushing on the button "it exists a Holy Grail"
There is no "Delta Phenomenon"
The "Delta Phenomenon " is nothing else technically than the revamping, reshaping of Hurst's Phasing Analysis in his Cyclitec Course.(1975) Sloman / Wilders just sell to Dummies Hurst's Phasing Analysis under a new package form mixed with Cyclical Astrology spices (the Moon, the Sun)
It is obvious when you read the Gold Analysis ( page 84 to 95) . It is exactly what Hurst showed us in his Cyclitec course .
Wilder applies to Gold his Cyclic Model. Note that every Cyclic thinker or Cycles Analyst has his own specific "model" to differentiate himself from his competitors.
No problem with that. I have mine
But in the real life there is only ONE way to apply a "Cyclic Model" to Market data as there is only one way to draw a Trend Line between 2 Lows or 2 Highs. You can only use different Lows or different Highs .
Hence it is an intellectual scam. Proof is that both Sloman and Wilder know Hurst's work. His book Profit Magic is quoted in Delta Phenomenon
Plus Ray Frechette is a "Director" of Delta Society International.
Who is Ray Frechette - His résumé is explained in the Delta Phenomenon.
RAY FRECHETTE is known world-wide for his analysis and application of cycle theory for both stocks and commodities.
Mr .Frechette began his career in technical analysis working with the legendary Jim Hurst, author of The Profit Magic of Stock Transaction Timing. Later he bought Hurst's company and founded Cycle Sciences Corporation and for many years published a technical letter remplasizing the cyclic approach to market timing.
Mr.Frechette has presented his technical trading methods and cyclic analysis at more than a hundred seminars in the U.S.and abroad. He is highly respected as a market analyst and for his contributions to the area of technical trading.
Ray Frechette testimony :
When Welles showed me the DELTA phenomenon it immediately became obvious why cycles work well at times and then do not work well at other times. There is no question that DELTA is the most significant discovery yet made about the markets. Nothing else even comes close to it. I have read the type set copy of this brochure and it does not exaggerate the case. DELTA is the basis of market movement.
After studying hundreds of charts and computerized data it is my opinion that the long term aspect of this thing is understated. I believe if the long term DELTA were used only as a filter it would eliminate most lost trades, resulting in doubling the profits of virtually any good automatic trading system.
I still find it hard to believe that what Jim Hurst and I and many others tried so hard to find is actually there—and it is so simple yet so well disguised it couldn't be discovered.
You know the saying "every minute a sucker is born". That is the case. They sell their "Delta Phenomenon to credulous customers motivated by greed pushing on the button "it exists a Holy Grail"
There is no "Delta Phenomenon"
The "Delta Phenomenon " is nothing else technically than the revamping, reshaping of Hurst's Phasing Analysis in his Cyclitec Course.(1975) Sloman / Wilders just sell to Dummies Hurst's Phasing Analysis under a new package form mixed with Cyclical Astrology spices (the Moon, the Sun)
It is obvious when you read the Gold Analysis ( page 84 to 95) . It is exactly what Hurst showed us in his Cyclitec course .
Wilder applies to Gold his Cyclic Model. Note that every Cyclic thinker or Cycles Analyst has his own specific "model" to differentiate himself from his competitors.
No problem with that. I have mine
But in the real life there is only ONE way to apply a "Cyclic Model" to Market data as there is only one way to draw a Trend Line between 2 Lows or 2 Highs. You can only use different Lows or different Highs .
Hence it is an intellectual scam. Proof is that both Sloman and Wilder know Hurst's work. His book Profit Magic is quoted in Delta Phenomenon
Plus Ray Frechette is a "Director" of Delta Society International.
Who is Ray Frechette - His résumé is explained in the Delta Phenomenon.
RAY FRECHETTE is known world-wide for his analysis and application of cycle theory for both stocks and commodities.
Mr .Frechette began his career in technical analysis working with the legendary Jim Hurst, author of The Profit Magic of Stock Transaction Timing. Later he bought Hurst's company and founded Cycle Sciences Corporation and for many years published a technical letter remplasizing the cyclic approach to market timing.
Mr.Frechette has presented his technical trading methods and cyclic analysis at more than a hundred seminars in the U.S.and abroad. He is highly respected as a market analyst and for his contributions to the area of technical trading.
Ray Frechette testimony :
When Welles showed me the DELTA phenomenon it immediately became obvious why cycles work well at times and then do not work well at other times. There is no question that DELTA is the most significant discovery yet made about the markets. Nothing else even comes close to it. I have read the type set copy of this brochure and it does not exaggerate the case. DELTA is the basis of market movement.
After studying hundreds of charts and computerized data it is my opinion that the long term aspect of this thing is understated. I believe if the long term DELTA were used only as a filter it would eliminate most lost trades, resulting in doubling the profits of virtually any good automatic trading system.
I still find it hard to believe that what Jim Hurst and I and many others tried so hard to find is actually there—and it is so simple yet so well disguised it couldn't be discovered.
- #12,172
- Dec 21, 2023 4:32pm Dec 21, 2023 4:32pm
- Joined Oct 2017 | Status: Trader | 12,472 Posts
In short we are asked to believe that :
"Delta reveals us the "Hidden Secret of the Markets"
"Delta is not a cyclical method"
" Delta has nothing to do with Hurst Cyclic Model and methods"
Much more strange , Ray Frechette as "Director" of the Delta Society is reputed having paid $35.000 to Sloman and Wilder.
Having bought Hurst's company and "being known world-wide for his analysis and application of cycle theory for both stocks and commodities. " Ray Frechette seems not having observed the close similarity between Delta and Hurst's Phasing Analysis
It took me 5 minutes. I just had to read attentively the Delta Phenomenon and to find the quoted pages.
I will right now unveil to you the real "secret" deeply hidden within the "Delta Phenomenon" :
Frechette became the owner of Hurst works, hence of Hurst's course sold $ 5.000 at the Time (1975) . 10 years later in cooperation with Wilder, Ray Frechette generates enough "buzz" to sell a short version of Hurst Course, kind of Hurst Course for Dummies, for $ 3.500 to the average customer and $ 35.000 to a guy wanted to be a "Director"
These guys are very good to market old tools and methodologies under new names
"Delta reveals us the "Hidden Secret of the Markets"
"Delta is not a cyclical method"
" Delta has nothing to do with Hurst Cyclic Model and methods"
Much more strange , Ray Frechette as "Director" of the Delta Society is reputed having paid $35.000 to Sloman and Wilder.
Having bought Hurst's company and "being known world-wide for his analysis and application of cycle theory for both stocks and commodities. " Ray Frechette seems not having observed the close similarity between Delta and Hurst's Phasing Analysis
It took me 5 minutes. I just had to read attentively the Delta Phenomenon and to find the quoted pages.
I will right now unveil to you the real "secret" deeply hidden within the "Delta Phenomenon" :
Frechette became the owner of Hurst works, hence of Hurst's course sold $ 5.000 at the Time (1975) . 10 years later in cooperation with Wilder, Ray Frechette generates enough "buzz" to sell a short version of Hurst Course, kind of Hurst Course for Dummies, for $ 3.500 to the average customer and $ 35.000 to a guy wanted to be a "Director"
These guys are very good to market old tools and methodologies under new names
- #12,174
- Dec 21, 2023 5:26pm Dec 21, 2023 5:26pm
- Joined Feb 2006 | Status: Trader | 2,228 Posts
In 1998 / 2000 I heard about Gann , Murrey , Delta and more I choosed Gann and Murrey for the book (69$ ) and the EOD software (250$). Hopefully for me because I could not have done this analysis because I had no experience at the time in Cycle Analysis and specifically in Hurst Methodology. I discovered Hurst in 2006.
Thank you for shining the
on Delta & how it came about. For me it is Gann & Murrey that keep my attention. It does appear that Murrey has shuttered his business, but I may be wrong.What are the best books available on Hurst & his Cycle analysis? Wasn't his course available at one point for $400.00 from Trader's Press?
I had many conversations with the owner of Trader's Press & I believe he told me he knew Hurst personally. In hindsight I wish I had bought Hurst's
course back in those days. Oh well today is another day & time goes on.
- #12,175
- Edited Dec 22, 2023 5:02am Dec 21, 2023 5:47pm | Edited Dec 22, 2023 5:02am
- Joined Oct 2017 | Status: Trader | 12,472 Posts
{quote} Parisboy, Thank you for shining the
As for hurst you can find all Hurst books on PDF on this thread.
Seems now the books are very expensive.
In short we are asked to believe that : "Delta reveals us the "Hidden Secret of the Markets" "Delta is not a cyclical method" " Delta has nothing to do with Hurst Cyclic Model and methods" Much more strange , Ray Frechette as "Director" of the Delta Society is reputed having paid $35.000 to Sloman and Wilder. Having bought Hurst's company and "being known world-wide for his analysis and application of cycle theory for both stocks and commodities. " Ray Frechette seems not having observed the close similarity between Delta and Hurst's Phasing Analysis...
