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  • #24,721
  • Oct 26, 2023 9:02am Oct 26, 2023 9:02am
And as I go forward in this thought, I do not think you as trader would need kind of financial license to overcome the license shortage of the prop firm. Because you know that nearly all or all is done over b-booking. So the chance that any of your trades will get copied and make it to the real market are extremely small. Then again there is the question how the trade is copied, only with a fraction of its size or multiple times or with a delay and so on, that is all up the prop firm. But the prop is taking third party money and then it is doing A-booking to their own discretion, so everwhere in the world they would need a kind of financial advisor license to be allowed to do so, except in Cayman Islands or Bahamans or similar jurisdictions. Even the prop is only saying they are eventually doing this the intention to do so or be able to do so is enough to require such a license or any prop can be punished a lot because of that. That is what I know from the law side here.
  • #24,722
  • Oct 26, 2023 9:04am Oct 26, 2023 9:04am
Quoting Trader191
{quote} never compare real prop company with this new age prop trading game companies, who dont invest any real money and all have in demo accounts. thats nothing to compare, all different, they just use for marketing prop name, but are just a simple trading game. you need to know you do a trading game and no real prop trading, thats important. or you will think total wrong about even the starting basic and follow planing get wrong because of start mistakes. ever know what you do ,or you will have no chance to get a professional trader in 10 years....
I know exactly that these props are casinos. But they also have no gaming license to do so. In Europe it is regulated to have such a gaming license. Also I think elsewhere too. But again only the intention to say they are EVENTUALLY doing A-booking on prop its website is already enough for the regulators. I assume that all.
  • #24,723
  • Oct 26, 2023 9:08am Oct 26, 2023 9:08am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} I know exactly that these props are casinos. But they also have no gaming license to do so. In Europe it is regulated to have such a gaming license. Also I think elsewhere too. But again only the intention to say they are EVENTUALLY doing A-booking on prop its website is already enough for the regulators. I assume that all.
no! you only need license when you take money accounts, not for a game - thats the reason why they only use demo accounts!!!! its listed as trading games like trading championschips... here you can do anything.
  • #24,724
  • Oct 26, 2023 9:09am Oct 26, 2023 9:09am
I am not 100% sure but in the casino/gaming license it is said how much the firm is needed to pay out as percentage of its taken money. So any prop firm cannot keep over 40% or 50% of all fees and then do the payouts as wanted. It is all regulated how much and so on...no way any prop can just do what it wants for any time here...
  • #24,725
  • Oct 26, 2023 9:17am Oct 26, 2023 9:17am
Quoting TrAndy1
I am not 100% sure but in the casino/gaming license it is said how much the firm is needed to pay out as percentage of its taken money. So any prop firm cannot keep over 40% or 50% of all fees and then do the payouts as wanted. It is all regulated how much and so on...no way any prop can just do what it wants for any time here...
you have rules and stretch the rules in your favour. like any trading game can do and will do!
  • #24,726
  • Oct 26, 2023 9:18am Oct 26, 2023 9:18am
Quoting TrAndy1
I am not 100% sure but in the casino/gaming license it is said how much the firm is needed to pay out as percentage of its taken money. So any prop firm cannot keep over 40% or 50% of all fees and then do the payouts as wanted. It is all regulated how much and so on...no way any prop can just do what it wants for any time here...
That is the whole point of this discussion. They are NOT regulated by anyone.
  • #24,727
  • Oct 26, 2023 9:24am Oct 26, 2023 9:24am
Quoting Trader191
{quote} you have rules and stretch the rules in your favour. like any trading game can do and will do!
You cannot do that. You cannot stretch any rule to your favor how you want and anytime and make changes anytime how do you want. It is regulated too. I am speaking of USA, EU jurisdiction. I do not know too much about Dubai or VAE legislation here. But in any case they are moving to Cayman Islands, just a simple mailbox is not enough they need real offices there with people working on that Cayman Islands. Then it is regulation free, but then they cannot take any customer (USA e.g.) too.
  • #24,728
  • Oct 26, 2023 9:30am Oct 26, 2023 9:30am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} There is still the ridiculous law that is forbidden to deduct any more than 20k losses from derivatives like Futures or CFDs, or Options. So in case you made 150k gains and 100k losses here you can only deduct 20k losses from your 150k gain, so you need to pay full taxes on 130k gains which can be in taxes higher than the total amount of net gains (here 50k only). This is bad joke but true. You need to fight in court to get your right back to deduct all made losses. And the worst it comes from finance minister in the previous government...
Wait a minute... You're stating if I make $300K in profit and lose $260K, resulting in a net profit of $40K........I need to pay tax on $280K (300K- only 20K in losses). Are you positive it isn't 20K in net losses you are allowed?
Sorry to question you, but that is absurd.
  • #24,729
  • Oct 26, 2023 9:31am Oct 26, 2023 9:31am
There is another point. Marketing from unregulated business is also not allowed. THe props cannot take googls ads to advertise on their business, when they are not regulated. Point. That would be another fine taken from regulators when they come or step in.
  • #24,730
  • Oct 26, 2023 9:32am Oct 26, 2023 9:32am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Wait a minute... You're stating if I make $300K in profit and lose $260K, resulting in a net profit of $40K........I need to pay tax on $280K (300K- only 20K in losses). Are you positive it isn't 20K in net losses you are allowed? Sorry to question you, but that is absurd.
Yes it is that absurd that you will loose your head by shaking it all the time and that very hefty. In that case 280k "gains" is taxed until you go to court and win the case.
  • #24,731
  • Oct 26, 2023 9:32am Oct 26, 2023 9:32am
Quoting TrAndy1
There is another point. Marketing from unregulated business is also not allowed. THe props cannot take googls ads to advertise on their business, when they are not regulated. Point. That would be another fine taken from regulators when they come or step in.
Yay.. now you're getting it..! Your mates at bespoke aren't even a broker.
  • #24,732
  • Oct 26, 2023 9:33am Oct 26, 2023 9:33am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} You cannot do that. You cannot stretch any rule to your favor how you want and anytime and make changes anytime how do you want. It is regulated too. I am speaking of USA, EU jurisdiction. I do not know too much about Dubai or VAE legislation here. But in any case they are moving to Cayman Islands, just a simple mailbox is not enough they need real offices there with people working on that Cayman Islands. Then it is regulation free, but then they cannot take any customer (USA e.g.) too.
so it was fine to kick you out of your prop because was perfect inside the rules.
they will kick out anyone who they dont use for bring in money, smaller payments lower then income or marketing effect.
  • #24,733
  • Oct 26, 2023 9:38am Oct 26, 2023 9:38am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Wait a minute... You're stating if I make $300K in profit and lose $260K, resulting in a net profit of $40K........I need to pay tax on $280K (300K- only 20K in losses). Are you positive it isn't 20K in net losses you are allowed? Sorry to question you, but that is absurd.
thats german law since 2 years (2021)!
i had to leave germany too for this or build up companies.
i would have to go against this, and would take in court 5 -10 years to get right, and then only best chance to get 20.000 loss-border using increased to maybe 1 million (because already used in other law), so not even enough to compensate for losses as daytrader.

no word, germany and tax laws are very stupid! on other side the cum -ex was possible many years with near no effects. total dumb laws in germany, thats fact.. against any logic.
  • #24,734
  • Oct 26, 2023 9:45am Oct 26, 2023 9:45am
Quoting Trader191
{quote} thats german law since 2 years (2021)! i had to leave germany too for this or build up companies. i would have to go against this, and would take in court 5 -10 years to get right, and then only best chance to get 20.000 loss-border using increased to maybe 1 million (because already used in other law), so not even enough to compensate for losses as daytrader. no word, germany and tax laws are very stupid! on other side the cum -ex was possible many years with near no effects. total dumb laws in germany, thats fact.. against any logic.
yes, if you have the money it is best to be taxed zero in Dubai. I also would go for it when I had my million(s) on the bank account. But there is still much to do for me.
I hope everyone sees, the USA is devil bad but there are countries like Germany which are even worse when it comes to trading. No way that USA is the worst place...
  • #24,735
  • Oct 26, 2023 9:49am Oct 26, 2023 9:49am
As US American you have the option to do tax evasion with moving to Puerto Rico. Then you can save a lot of taxes on your trading income. Still a viable option... ??
https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertw...ere-tax-risks/
  • #24,736
  • Oct 26, 2023 9:55am Oct 26, 2023 9:55am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} yes, if you have the money it is best to be taxed zero in Dubai. I also would go for it when I had my million(s) on the bank account. But there is still much to do for me. I hope everyone sees, the USA is devil bad but there are countries like Germany which are even worse when it comes to trading. No way that USA is the worst place...
you can create yourself a AMC, or fund or other parts, so you trade inside a certificate or fund, so its onetime money in and out for yourself (so taxed as this)... so structure creating (but thats wrong thread here for this). thats also a nice cheap way. but i wanted to travel any way, so was good push.
  • #24,737
  • Oct 26, 2023 9:56am Oct 26, 2023 9:56am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Wait a minute... You're stating if I make $300K in profit and lose $260K, resulting in a net profit of $40K........I need to pay tax on $280K (300K- only 20K in losses). Are you positive it isn't 20K in net losses you are allowed? Sorry to question you, but that is absurd.
The intention of that law was to stop trading at all among all non-banks! As individual trader you are forced to stop trading seriously as any main source of income.
If you are still trade as private person you need to go to court based on the constitution. It is your degree of freedom to choose whatever you like as profession by constitution, not by law funny wise, then you need to tell the judge that you want to deduct all your trading losses you made from the gains, to get a fair tax out of it...
  • #24,738
  • Oct 26, 2023 10:09am Oct 26, 2023 10:09am
It is even worse there was an international initiative also from that same person, our actual cancellor of Germany, who wanted an international transaction tax on all financial activities. Something around 1% turnover tax, or at least 0.5% tax on all, even derivatives or Forex. That is the same guy who wanted this but then failed...lucky for us. Even the USA was considering this but then Trump came and every such plans was pure garbage...luckily. You cannot trust politicians, simple as that Imagine paying a 50 pips turnover tax per lot as commission taken from the government, hehh ??? It sounds to bad but it was really intended for serious from them.
  • #24,739
  • Oct 26, 2023 10:30am Oct 26, 2023 10:30am
Also the culture in Germany is bad. It is not enterprise friendly at all. If you drive a new sportscar on the street you only get bad views and bad mouthing everywhere. You are only welcomed here if you have your 9to5 job and stuck in the middle class. You are the bad guy here when you have a business. Because you are exploiting the workers and give them too low salaries and make income/gains because of other peoples hands. You even cannot show your money or any money because you are suspected to be a drug dealer or any other sort of criminal. All people here are totally envious when they see someone rich in Germany. That is Germany. USA is much better. That is also for a lot of people a reason to move out of this country. Even as trader you are from government here a person non grata. You just should not trade!
  • #24,740
  • Oct 26, 2023 10:31am Oct 26, 2023 10:31am
Quoting TrAndy1
if you have the money it is best to be taxed zero in Dubai.
-I believe that Dubai's tax laws are changing. There are better options, especially if you are willing to renounce any citizenship status that subjects you to harsh tax laws.

Quoting TrAndy1
As US American you have the option to do tax evasion with moving to Puerto Rico. Then you can save a lot of taxes on your trading income. Still a viable option... ?
-Tax evasion is illegal. Tax avoidance is not. Moving to Puerto Rico (as a US citizen) can reduce your overall, taxable income, but there are better options.
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