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  • #24,341
  • Oct 19, 2023 4:15am Oct 19, 2023 4:15am
The recent stats about passing rate from Funded Engineer are very alarming. It means most props cannot survive. So they are forced to play more dirty when it comes to payout. Very alarming. If that is the case for the whole prop industry I would say good night except FTMO traders. You cannot do all b-booking with that kind of low challenge fees and that high passing rate. It may be a flaw for one month we do not know. But if that is consistently the new passing rate and similar to all props, oh no.
  • #24,342
  • Oct 19, 2023 4:23am Oct 19, 2023 4:23am
Quoting Tovip
{quote} I am sorry...I been trying to not ask the question but...... ...what are the owls really about? lol Every time I see it, I can't shake the question off my mind.
I understand your curiosity but this is all I am permitted to say.

Though you might find some hints here
https://garmonblogzia.wordpress.com/...hat-they-seem/
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #24,343
  • Oct 19, 2023 4:35am Oct 19, 2023 4:35am
It is not worth to do a prop challenge to just get one payout (if it is not too high but if it is very high it also subject to get this payout denied). How can anyone start a new challenge except FTMO when the traders knows (s)he is trading against the prop firm ? The more I think about it the more I get the impression to avoid all props. If we had this discussion two years earlier we were just speculating the props will ensure to copy profitable traders so they can do payouts all the time for sure. But that is not the case as MFF has shown it. And MFF was the biggest one out there. If they are not doing A-booking (or nearly zero which is the same effect in the end), how any prop will do any A-booking (except FTMO maybe) ? You are only trading against the house money and you are subject to be a plague if you are profitable trading. I cannot do this having this in my mind. I always would get the impression they want me to loose and are applauding for every failed trade. It is just too bad from the emotional side. You against the prop firm. You really want to fight here when you are in the minor position because you are begging for a payout in exchange for your fee ?
  • #24,344
  • Oct 19, 2023 4:40am Oct 19, 2023 4:40am
Quoting TrAndy1
The recent stats about passing rate from Funded Engineer are very alarming. It means most props cannot survive. So they are forced to play more dirty when it comes to payout. Very alarming. If that is the case for the whole prop industry I would say good night except FTMO traders. You cannot do all b-booking with that kind of low challenge fees and that high passing rate. It may be a flaw for one month we do not know. But if that is consistently the new passing rate and similar to all props, oh no.
Not really
Let's pick the 100K
% Achieving funded: 12.98%
% achieving payout: 27.9%

Let's say 100 traders purchase the 100K challenge for 500 USD. Revenue 50K

13 will get a funded account
From those only 4 will get to a payout

Revenue: 50K
Refund fee: -2K (4 traders)

You still have 48K to divide for 4. This would be average 12K per trader.

No way the average lifetime payout per trader is 12%.

I remember someone saying that if a trader got to 5% lifetime they would look closely at him to know what to do with him. Which means the average lifetime payouts are very low before they lose the account.

P.S. TrAndy don't take this as a criticism but would be easier if you were able to break a little bit your posts. It's quite difficult to read a huge block of text without any paragraph breaks. Sometimes I just jump ahead because I feel demotivated to read so much compact text. Reading in a screen is different from reading in a paper. It's just a comment. Don't take that in a bad way.
  • #24,345
  • Oct 19, 2023 4:42am Oct 19, 2023 4:42am
Quoting TrAndy1
It is not worth to do a prop challenge to just get one payout (if it is not too high but if it is very high it also subject to get this payout denied). How can anyone start a new challenge except FTMO when the traders knows (s)he is trading against the prop firm ? The more I think about it the more I get the impression to avoid all props. If we had this discussion two years earlier we were just speculating the props will ensure to copy profitable traders so they can do payouts all the time for sure. But that is not the case as MFF has shown it....
You're right. But neither is it to play in a casino or buy lottery tickets and, nevertheless, people still do it.

This is a losers game so people buy it with the illusion of being able to receive a lot of money for a little starting fee.
  • #24,346
  • Oct 19, 2023 4:44am Oct 19, 2023 4:44am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} I understand your curiosity but this is all I am permitted to say. Though you might find some hints here https://garmonblogzia.wordpress.com/...hat-they-seem/
I have no idea what you're talking about. When I clicked in that telegram link it said something like private group of such.
  • #24,347
  • Oct 19, 2023 4:55am Oct 19, 2023 4:55am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Not really Let's pick the 100K % Achieving funded: 12.98% % achieving payout: 27.9% Let's say 100 traders purchase the 100K challenge for 500 USD. Revenue 50K 13 will get a funded account From those only 4 will get to a payout Revenue: 50K Refund fee: -2K (4 traders) You still have 48K to divide for 4. This would be average 12K per trader. No way the average lifetime payout per trader is 12%. I remember someone saying that if a trader got to 5% lifetime they would look closely at him to know what to do with him. Which means the average lifetime...
I do not think so. If the passing rate goes up that much it also means that the chance of getting a higher payout is also much higher. Because both go hand in hand.
  • #24,348
  • Oct 19, 2023 5:09am Oct 19, 2023 5:09am
To see how difficult it is nowadays to survive as prop I make an example. So the passing rate at least tripled and the prop average payout was about 3% I was reading.

So that means if the passing rate is much higher the much more profitable traders are trading with the prop firm. So they are also then subject to higher or more payouts. So in case before they loose their funding account they also triple their payout (in sum of all payouts) to 9%, the prop firm is after their fixed cost already broke. Some numbers even show the passing rate is now at around 5% which means (here) it is 5-fold from two years ago (seeing MFF statistics earlier). If then the payout in average as sum of all payouts is also near 5-fold there is no chance that any prop can survive. Even FTMO then can get some problems if that stats maintains.
  • #24,349
  • Oct 19, 2023 5:10am Oct 19, 2023 5:10am
Sorry for my absence (although i am sure people enjoyed it). Been travelling back home.

The funded engineer stats, plus their behavior from an SEO level, show stress. But they are not the only ones.

Anyone notice how most of the MFFX staff have left? Trouble in paradise.
  • #24,350
  • Oct 19, 2023 5:19am Oct 19, 2023 5:19am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} I have no idea what you're talking about. When I clicked in that telegram link it said something like private group of such.
Aaaah the Telegram is a channel of Tom Hougaard, nothing to do with the owls
I posted a link to his "School run strategy" for trading DAX that lddd was asking about: https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...8#post14621858
But I forgot you first have to request the access to his channel here: https://tradertom.com/live-trading/#anchor-signals
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #24,351
  • Oct 19, 2023 5:39am Oct 19, 2023 5:39am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} Aaaah the Telegram is a channel of Tom Hougaard, nothing to do with the owls I posted a link to his "School run strategy" for trading DAX that lddd was asking about: https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...8#post14621858 But I forgot you first have to request the access to his channel here: https://tradertom.com/live-trading/#anchor-signals
Toms strategies are garbage, there is no edge here. His edge comes from his Money Management like scaling into winning trades. And maybe also from his followers entering into the same direction after he already entered a trade. That is all. Forget about his "secret" strategies, there is nothing special about his strategies.
  • #24,352
  • Oct 19, 2023 5:43am Oct 19, 2023 5:43am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} Toms strategies are garbage, there is no edge here. His edge comes from his Money Management like scaling into winning trades. And maybe also from his followers entering into the same direction after he already entered a trade. That is all. Forget about his "secret" strategies, there is nothing special about his strategies.
Agree
  • #24,353
  • Oct 19, 2023 5:50am Oct 19, 2023 5:50am
Quoting TrAndy1
It is not worth to do a prop challenge to just get one payout (if it is not too high but if it is very high it also subject to get this payout denied). How can anyone start a new challenge except FTMO when the traders knows (s)he is trading against the prop firm ? The more I think about it the more I get the impression to avoid all props. If we had this discussion two years earlier we were just speculating the props will ensure to copy profitable traders so they can do payouts all the time for sure. But that is not the case as MFF has shown it....
Also agree. I'm sure what's left is just a casino and always has been but they've been forced to show their hand. The marketing for trader talent has been exposed for a fraud and misrepresentation, this I also include FTMO unless they show A booking evidence of all profitable traders which they won't.

It's gone from being an amazing opportunity for aspiring professional traders to a junkies smack house looking for the next victim to mug off. Very sad.
  • #24,354
  • Edited 6:06am Oct 19, 2023 5:50am | Edited 6:06am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} Toms strategies are garbage, there is no edge here. His edge comes from his Money Management like scaling into winning trades. And maybe also from his followers entering into the same direction after he already entered a trade. That is all. Forget about his "secret" strategies, there is nothing special about his strategies.
I never said his strategies are secret or special in any way. I don't trade them but I don't think they are complete garbage either. And statistically they might have an edge. On a short history but there is some. Unlike with most other strategies I have ever seen.
Yes, scaling into winners and being mentally strong to cut the losers is what makes his trading profitable in the first place. But that applies to almost any other trading strategy on short time scales. I have never seen a strategy (below say 1-4h TF) that would have a noticeable edge on it's own. It is ALWAYS about the associated risk and money management.

EDIT: I was playing around with backtesting of various strategies on indices (not DAX, I prefer US) and various types of breakouts in a predefined time range seemed best in the long run. But again - hard to believe Tom's strategies would be secret when he trades them publicly online every day in front of 30k of other traders
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #24,355
  • Oct 19, 2023 6:36am Oct 19, 2023 6:36am
Quoting TrAndy1
Remember just before I made roughly +10% profits for my funded accounts on several payouts in sum I got kicked out from Bespoke. If they have similar stat numbers it could be explained why they are forced to do so. If the prop cannot survive at the 10% level it means that even with 2% passing rate you latest get red flagged by the prop when you do 25% in gains from multiple payouts together of one funded account. So it is not nice to trade against the prop, it just leaves a bad feeling the more you win the more they want you to get rid off. And...
If everything is as you say Andy with your "Bespoke" experience, you should not be letting them get away with it. If you don't pursue them through some official means, it just gives them the confidence to continue with their mode of operation. In the UK there is the "Trades Description Act 1968" which is used to ensure goods and services are as advertised, there are also a number of consumer protection agencies you could raise the issue with. I understand you just want to get on with your trading and it will likely be a a bit of hassle but some of these companies need a serious shake down for some of their underhand tactics. I daresay an email to the FCA explaining the situation will not hurt at this stage either. I'm sure they are already looking at a number of firms anyway.
  • #24,356
  • Oct 19, 2023 6:41am Oct 19, 2023 6:41am
Quoting FX-DON
{quote} If everything is as you say Andy with your "Bespoke" experience, you should not be letting them get away with it. If you don't pursue them through some official means, it just gives them the confidence to continue with their mode of operation. In the UK there is the "Trades Description Act 1968" which is used to ensure goods and services are as advertised, there are also a number of consumer protection agencies you could raise the issue with. I understand you just want to get on with your trading and it will likely be a a bit of hassle but...
You are right of course. But I do not think that will help me to get my 800k funded accounts back. It would be a long fight then to request any payouts more if they would deny them after I continued to make some more profits. If English would be my first language I would consider thinking of this, but it takes too much time for me.
  • #24,357
  • Oct 19, 2023 6:51am Oct 19, 2023 6:51am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} You are right of course. But I do not think that will help me to get my 800k funded accounts back. It would be a long fight then to request any payouts more if they would deny them after I continued to make some more profits. If English would be my first language I would consider thinking of this, but it takes too much time for me.
Your English is more than adequate to explain the situation, it's a few emails at most initially, probably takes longer to post here. Copy the emails to "Bespoke" and this at least gives them an option to respond to you properly if they know they are about to sustain some heat. Nothing ventured nothing gained ! Only people who have genuinely been wronged can at least attempt to right these wrongs. They may just back pedal rather fast right now and don't think they want to be under an official microscope.
  • #24,358
  • Oct 19, 2023 7:19am Oct 19, 2023 7:19am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} You are right of course. But I do not think that will help me to get my 800k funded accounts back. It would be a long fight then to request any payouts more if they would deny them after I continued to make some more profits. If English would be my first language I would consider thinking of this, but it takes too much time for me.
You should talk to tradernok
  • #24,359
  • Oct 19, 2023 7:27am Oct 19, 2023 7:27am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} You should talk to tradernok
I think he would discard it.

Andy received the refund fees with his first payout and he received all payouts after that (they first paid and then kicked him out).
Any prop can terminate the contract at any time without providing the reasons. I thin NOK already said that no part is obliged to work with the other forever.
  • #24,360
  • Oct 19, 2023 7:29am Oct 19, 2023 7:29am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} You should talk to tradernok
I cannot write to him, it is locked for me when I go to this twitter website.
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