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  • #14,021
  • Edited 8:48pm Feb 18, 2023 9:31am | Edited 8:48pm
Yes, I always analyze this way when looking at the props..... If I have $10,000 personal account of which I can lose 100%, what is the equivalent at the prop firm, what are they charging me for that and how many times do I have to flip it?
Use MFF as an example.....the equivalent to a $12K personal account would be their 100K eval....
they charge $475 if you use the 5% discount. I must earn 67% (8% with 12% DD) in phase 1 and 41%(5% with 12%DD) in phase 2.....
so trading my $475 investment on my own would result in growth to $1,118 after the 2 stages (11% of the 10K) ......
I now get my $475 refunded plus I've made $160 in phase 1 bonus, $200 in phase 2 bonus, so I am already up $360 and I now have the equivalent of a $12,000 personal account.
I hate to sound like a broken record, but this is why the eval is THE ONLY MODEL one should be using.......FTMO, TFTP, TFF all offer the same bang for your buck, not quite as good as MFF but everyone should understand the concept.
If you prefer the express route as opposed to reinvesting profits, for under $5K, one can take the largest challenge offered at MFF, FTMO, TFTP and TFF, have $1 million AUM and with MAX LOSS have the equivalent of $106K personal account.
Reinvest the refunded challenge fees and repeat.........$2 million AUM or equivalent of $212K personal account.
Challenge fees are refunded again, you now have a $212K personal account at NO COST TO YOU!!!!!!!!
None of the new companies that have no history of payout or the unlimited time or the 1 step eval or the instant funding, etc, etc, etc are going to magically get you funded. The firm isn't the holy grail, you are, so find the best value, clear and concise rules, proven payout history and just f*****in' trade.
Saturday morning training over.......
  • #14,022
  • Feb 18, 2023 10:13am Feb 18, 2023 10:13am
Quoting Doubla
{quote} Here we go again. Having payouts to pay for additional accounts I like to give the new prop firms a go. Those that "seem" to stack up rule conditions wise. Anyway Took out a 500k account with Gutstofail. Good conditions, no silly rules etc. Guess what. First trade GOLD. Tried to trade with 10 lots. My standard for plus 100k accounts. No go.??? 500k account with 50:1 leverage. The most the platform would allow was/is 1 lot. Yes you read that correctly. Contacted chat. had to wait all day for them to come on line. Hello Started trading new...
Thanks you saved me a $1000 I knew this company was a scam from day one. Gutstofail should be Gutstobescammed
  • #14,023
  • Feb 18, 2023 10:20am Feb 18, 2023 10:20am
Hey guys I am with FTMO for years and succesful with them the last year but I want another funding firm. I have tried MFF and the spreads and slippage was a JOKE and I tried Fedelcrest a total scam company. I tried a few others as well and no one can touch FTMO yet.

I am not saying FTMO is great but they are at least plausable and realistic to a real account. I just hate their 10 day minimim rule and the platform does freeze from time to time but otherwise they are the best.

I am concidering Finotive can anyone that has used FTMO give me a comparaion on the spreads and executions / slippages specifically on Indexs and stock CFDs?


Thanks in Advance
  • #14,024
  • Feb 18, 2023 10:42am Feb 18, 2023 10:42am
I don't post here much anymore because of the amount of nonsense going on in the prop space and the people who comment on it, ultimately its growing and as more newbies come in, I have lost interest in the conversation, I was never a believer that 2k a week from a prop account will buy me a lambo, a rolex and a live in hooker. Alas, most seem to believe thats a possibility these days.

I generally have a rule of thumb about anything in life, and in my old age, I will share it with you. If you do not know what something is, then either learn what it is or move on from it. There is no reason to make grand statements on the internet about something we know nothing about, if we do not know something, it should be put forth as a question for someone who may know. This is the key to knowledge and power.

If trading conditions, like most things in life are too good to be true, they probably are, and in the case of almost all prop firms, the trading conditions are better than real conditions.

Let fundingtalent remain a lesson learned by the industry. If you weren't here when it happened, find out about what happened and how it happened.
  • #14,025
  • Feb 18, 2023 11:29am Feb 18, 2023 11:29am
Quoting Capablanca
They were the ones "wrong" when compared with competition. They just aligned now.
-My memory often fails me in my old age, but I am pretty sure that I was added to their mailing list when using their support chat. Maybe this is normal practice, but I am not sure.

Quoting Capablanca
I know this also happen in other firms but it's a really retarded thing. Instead of accepting that trader finished today, they're saying that he has to do 2 trades of 0.01 lots in the next 2 days. What additional information are they gathering with that ? Absolutely zero.
-Yes. If I recall correctly, one firm's excuse for this had to do with responsibility and deterring gambling behavior. Anytime someone else is claiming to protect you from yourself in terms of financial loss, it is usually an excuse for something else and/or very much unwanted in my experience.
  • #14,026
  • Feb 18, 2023 11:30am Feb 18, 2023 11:30am
Quoting Takisd
I don't post here much anymore
-I and many others really value your input. I hope that you continue posting here.
  • #14,027
  • Feb 18, 2023 1:40pm Feb 18, 2023 1:40pm
I second that. Hi Takisd, I very much hope you decide to continue posting here. I listen to precious few individuals on this Forum. With you being top of the list.
  • #14,028
  • Feb 18, 2023 4:13pm Feb 18, 2023 4:13pm
Quoting fxValue
{quote} Thanks you saved me a $1000 I knew this company was a scam from day one. Gutstofail should be Gutstobescammed
Maybe it's just me but I thought it was rather obvious that with a name like that someone was taking the piss. Having said that, this year does seem like it'll be quite pivotal for this industry. Literally every day some retard (like the one above) is launching a new firm and promoting it on Instagram. Goes without saying this bubble will have to burst at some point.
  • #14,029
  • Feb 18, 2023 6:20pm Feb 18, 2023 6:20pm
Quoting Takisd
I don't post here much anymore because of the amount of nonsense going on in the prop space and the people who comment on it, ultimately its growing and as more newbies come in, I have lost interest in the conversation, I was never a believer that 2k a week from a prop account will buy me a lambo, a rolex and a live in hooker. Alas, most seem to believe thats a possibility these days. I generally have a rule of thumb about anything in life, and in my old age, I will share it with you. If you do not know what something is, then either learn what...
I value most of your statements posted here.

For funded accounts and eveluation accounts, what profit percentage one should stop trading on a daily basis.

Wehave in general spoke about loss percent of 1.5 to 2 % a day as threshold.
Intraday only.
  • #14,030
  • Feb 19, 2023 12:38am Feb 19, 2023 12:38am
Quoting navk
{quote} I value most of your statements posted here. For funded accounts and eveluation accounts, what profit percentage one should stop trading on a daily basis. Wehave in general spoke about loss percent of 1.5 to 2 % a day as threshold.
Of my 5% DD's I am willing to go to 3% but generally i stop at less. To pass its def 3% because its necessary to pass using my strategies but anyone on live i recommend no more than 1%, which gives you 12 days on MFF 10 days on FTMO and 8-14 on everyone else.
  • #14,031
  • Edited 5:41am Feb 19, 2023 5:09am | Edited 5:41am
Quoting forexbali
I know the owner of a forex brokerage firm quite known in Europe. I have an idea to propose prop programs directly via a broker. Anyone can help me to define the perfect program that could be a win-win for both, the trader, and the prop firm? I should cover all the aspect so if the profit of the prop firm should come from the fees, or from the profit sharing etc etc Hard to make a business plan.. but I just post here if somebody have some idea
Hello Forexbali, and Brokers (who like to living in this buissness

my Think Tank,

The Importand Thing is, we Trade not against our valued prop firm. Absolute condition !

Instant Funding 100k Account !
Between 50k - 500 k
ECN/STP !
Leverage 1:30

100k : Cost 6k DD Begin 5k 85/15 Payout up to 95/5

DD = 5k Stopout 95k. Account Closed 6k you Lost and can do pay 6k again.

Account growth to 111 k Absolut DD 105k you becomes 6k Back Yore Account 111k then goes to 106k and over.
You have also In the Begin 5k DD And a Following Daily Drawdown up to 20k after up Scale !

This is a Win Win Win Setup for a konstant Trader+Propfirm+Broker

You are a Beginner, make a Challenge after Demo Konsistenz, 99$ around the Globe and Learn.
I Trade 7 Years and Lost Lost Lost...... 2016 and now Fintech in the Right Moment !


and this with cTrader, hey Andrew B., Ingmar M. and others, is this a Setup for you !?
You have it all Infra Leverage Investoren Teams go Man`s go !!

Or you out of Buissnes for Sure. I am a Idiot and stupid i grow a small Account Big with all this Prop Firms !?
The Retail Broker Dream was a Dream, which did not exist ! A Bubble !

I understand that this hurts gentlemen and ladies it did us also the Poors this carrot was held in front of the nose. The big leverage investors looked on grinning and all those who participated rubbed their hands, shouldered on millions of bubble accounts up to 25k most 2k.
The Leverage Investors could have handed over the money 20 years ago, they said then. Now they are forced by the socialists because the big levers are gone.
A lot of money is now free, and the propfirms are shooting out of the ground with all the newly branded MT4 B-Book broker legacy licenses, just continuing where they left off. B-Book said to me, no, you win every Week you must go. Real

Anonymus13
  • #14,032
  • Feb 19, 2023 5:17am Feb 19, 2023 5:17am
http://www.blufx.co.uk/ is down.
Temporarily or another one biting the dust ? Let's see.
  • #14,033
  • Feb 19, 2023 5:17am Feb 19, 2023 5:17am
From TFT Discord

These investigations have concluded. We will continue to monitor the countries mentioned as they are high-risk areas proven to have large volumes of traders who are committing fraud and cheating. There is no action to completely ban these countries at this time. If you have received a judgment that you are not happy or don't agree with they are final at this time. We have resolved 100's of cases. Paid out plenty of people in these countries and will continue to. If you are not happy with our service or product I would highly advise that you exit the community. This platform is going to another level and we're taking the real traders with us. All of you trying to make a quick buck with your schematics are not welcome here. I am personally no longer commenting on these matters. We are focused on improving the product and enhancing this experience to become number 1. You are either with us or against us. Decide now.
  • #14,034
  • Feb 19, 2023 11:26am Feb 19, 2023 11:26am
Hi All,

I would appreciate your input on below two questions. I've searched high and low and I have not found a solid answer on these.

1) Does anyone know any prop firms (mentioned in this thread or not) that have index options and specifically SPX options in the included instruments for a prop challenge?

2) Does anyone know any FX brokers that also offer options, such as index options? So far I think I found Saxo and Avatrade but as a US citizen I can't open an account (to trade options) with them unfortunately. Is anyone aware of any others, ideally open for US clients to trade options.

I am aware of prop firms that specifically have options trading and equities, but I believe you would need to be hired by them in some capacity and would need to pass a Series 57 exam/license first.

Thank you in advance.
  • #14,035
  • Feb 19, 2023 11:34am Feb 19, 2023 11:34am
Quoting navk
{quote} I value most of your statements posted here. For funded accounts and eveluation accounts, what profit percentage one should stop trading on a daily basis. Wehave in general spoke about loss percent of 1.5 to 2 % a day as threshold.
Friend, I am using this EA (attached). Such EA's has been mentioned on this thread but someone recommended this one and it works good. In my experience, better to set 1% (that is already 20% of what you are allowed) and if it's hit today, stop trading, close your platform and re-analyse your strategy. Come back again tomorrow. I think most us underestimate the mental challenges of prop firm trading. Problem I have found is that one can very easily forget one's rules and start revenge trading if one experience a nasty loss. It's human nature
Attached File(s)
File Type: ex4 CAP Equity Guard EA.ex4   115 KB | 314 downloads
  • #14,036
  • Feb 19, 2023 3:18pm Feb 19, 2023 3:18pm
Quoting Anonymus13
{quote} Hello Forexbali, and Brokers (who like to living in this buissness my Think Tank, The Importand Thing is, we Trade not against our valued prop firm. Absolute condition ! Instant Funding 100k Account ! Between 50k - 500 k ECN/STP ! Leverage 1:30 100k : Cost 6k DD Begin 5k 85/15 Payout up to 95/5 DD = 5k Stopout 95k. Account Closed 6k you Lost and can do pay 6k again. Account growth to 111 k Absolut DD 105k you becomes 6k Back Yore Account 111k then goes to 106k and over. You have also In the Begin 5k DD And a Following Daily Drawdown...

Thank you for your answer.

This is another important point, "instant funded" against "challange"

As trader as you living with trading for dozen of years, I'm also more attracted by an idea of a good instant funding that to go in the world of this challenges because it is not very clear if the prop firm make so much money just from this "casino game" than the real business to make money making profits.

To discuss so a best program for instant funding seem much more easier. The unique risk in all this business is when a trader go above the max drawdown that can lose even more due to fast markets. But solved this issue, the real difference will make the software to manage the risk, backoffice...

Let's say that the prop firm or broker, can make profits from A. Commissions B. Profit sharing C. Risk is limited to the drawdown below the cost of instant funding

Let's see how could be a program, let's compare to MFF or TFTP:

1. Account size 100.000$
2. Leverage 1:200 - No other limits like EAs, Copying etc. News trading responsible max leverage suggested 1:10
3. Fee
- 5.000$ for a max drawdown of 5%
- 10.000$ for 10% drawdown
- 20.000$ for 20% drawdown.

3. Profit sharing 50% to trader 50% to prop

50% of the trader can be every week possible to withdraw or even daily
50% of the prop will be used to scale up the account in a win-win way

4. Scaling

For the scale up I have these ideas:

SCALE PLAN A:

End of Week or Month: For every 1% profit the account will increased of 10%
Every 1000$ earned (1% of a 100K account) the trader will have 10K more to trade.
The prop will have a risk of $500 more that are covered however by the 50% profit share.

A 10% profit so will end with double the account from 100.000$ to 200.000$

In this scenario: Prop firm profit is for now only the 5000$ fee because the profit share of 50% can be lost at any time
for the scale up risks if the trader fail all the prof profits share are lost

This plan is like MFF, not so attractive for a goof prop-broker trader friendly. MFF and other can accept this just because
they make money with commissions, slippage and other mark ups.

SCALE PLAN B:

End of Week or Month: For every 1% profit the account will increased of 5%
Every 1000$ earned (1% of a 100K account) the trader will have 5K more to trade.
The prop will have a risk of $250 more that are covered however by the 50% profit share ($500)

A 10% profit so will end with increase of the account from 100.000$ to 150.000$

In this scenario: Prop firm profit is for now only the 5000$ fee and 25% profit share net earning
(5000$ profit share less 2500$ of additional risk on a 150K account).

Already better. Instead to create a plan C I will comment on this now.

The prof firm could refund 5000$ fee to the trader if the trader choose on of this options:

1. Lock the the drawdown to the balance and keep so the profit as buffer, is pratically the same for the trader
but if he lose his account doesn't feel like the prop firm made him lose even the fee of 5000$ that however was his drawdown paid
It's just something psychological

2. Profit share will be upgrade to 75% to the trader 25% to prop firm, better than MFF

I remember that my idea is only if the broker will offer the lowest spreads on the market with commission also the best

Also the 25% profit of the prop firm will be a buffer for unwanted losses above the max drawdown.
I don't really think that the business is to copy or "replicate" good traders with leverage.
I think that the business could be to collect top traders, scalpers wanted, to generate high volumes and male profit from this 25%, small commissions
on high volumes, and keep a standard and reputation as best fills, best spread, best over all.

What do you think?

Instant Funding it's much easier to comment of the much more complicate phase 1, phase 2 challenge business.
in holiday till end of November
  • #14,037
  • Feb 19, 2023 4:47pm Feb 19, 2023 4:47pm
Quoting fxValue
Hey guys I am with FTMO for years and succesful with them the last year but I want another funding firm. I have tried MFF and the spreads and slippage was a JOKE and I tried Fedelcrest a total scam company. I tried a few others as well and no one can touch FTMO yet. I am not saying FTMO is great but they are at least plausable and realistic to a real account. I just hate their 10 day minimim rule and the platform does freeze from time to time but otherwise they are the best. I am concidering Finotive can anyone that has used FTMO give me a comparaion...
If you don't want the 10 minimum days : E8 , MFFX and TFT are the best.
  • #14,038
  • Feb 19, 2023 6:51pm Feb 19, 2023 6:51pm
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Personal vs CTI.PNG Size: 24 KB

Quoting forexbali
{quote} Thank you for your answer. This is another important point, "instant funded" against "challange" As trader as you living with trading for dozen of years, I'm also more attracted by an idea of a good instant funding that to go in the world of this challenges because it is not very clear if the prop firm make so much money just from this "casino game" than the real business to make money making profits. To discuss so a best program for instant funding seem much more easier. The unique risk in all this business is when a trader go above the...
An instant funding program, just like all of the others already in existence, offers no benefit over trading one's own account if the fee is equal to or greater than the DD being offered.....actually it offers a 10 fold disadvantage......

Why would any intelligent person pay $500 for a $500 DD or $5K for a 5K DD and then give up 50% on top.....Instant funding is designed for the gullible and naive, when you plug the numbers at say a 5%ers, Lux, or CTI you wind up with upwards of 10-15 TIMES in a personal account after 10 "scales" with the instant funding model....

If a trader does not want the pressure of the time limit or profit target of the challenges, they simply do not need a prop firm, trade your personal account and PRETEND it is an instant funding firm......you will be way better off
  • #14,039
  • Feb 19, 2023 8:35pm Feb 19, 2023 8:35pm
I'm not speaking of any specific plan but sometimes for the sake of taking advantage of a good scaling plan, it may merit putting up with some unsavory conditions and rules imposed by the funding company in an instant funding program.
  • #14,040
  • Feb 19, 2023 9:20pm Feb 19, 2023 9:20pm
Folks...
who among our best firms allow expert advisors and have the best spreads/executions during news? on the fx majors... audusd, eurusd, usdjpy, gbpusd.
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