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Volman meets Burke or My journey with PA

  • #361
  • Oct 5, 2022 11:02am Oct 5, 2022 11:02am
Quoting spzd
{quote} Cheers
You're welcome:
And see how price tried to bounce back after the three hour New York session.
Pity SB couldn't make a video for us of how he would have played today's sp500 session
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #362
  • Oct 5, 2022 11:43am Oct 5, 2022 11:43am
Quoting turnip15
{quote} You're welcome: And see how price tried to bounce back after the three hour New York session. Pity SB couldn't make a video for us of how he would have played today's sp500 session {image}
I think taking their info, Burke or whoever, and using it and figuring the play yourself focusing on something that can be repeated is the best way. Hands on learning.
Mark ... Everything you have been told is a LIE
  • #363
  • Oct 5, 2022 1:29pm Oct 5, 2022 1:29pm
I have been immersed in learning PA for 2 months. Many 16 hour days, a few longer. Took a few days off the last couple weeks and have slowed way down the last few days, mostly to recharge. Have come a long way, but still a good ways to go. With NFP coming I will take the rest of this week and week end to do some deep study of the SP500 MES.

I would like to become as proficient as I possibly can with the SP500. This instrument is looking to be very profitable.
Mark ... Everything you have been told is a LIE
  • #364
  • Oct 5, 2022 3:25pm Oct 5, 2022 3:25pm
Quoting spzd
{quote} I think taking their info, Burke or whoever, and using it and figuring the play yourself focusing on something that can be repeated is the best way. Hands on learning.
Yes -from experience of late, I find that I am gradually finding elements of SB to improve my current approach to give an overview of whatever I am lookng at, to construct a narrative of past, present and projected destination. Logic instead of guesswork.
Less poking about in the dark and greater confidence in myself. This thread and a couple of others help tremendously. But I do feel that the biggest struggle is with oneself. I agree with you about study - lots of charts etc - oh well, nowt on TV anyway
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #365
  • Oct 5, 2022 6:14pm Oct 5, 2022 6:14pm
Quoting turnip15
Advice needed please kind people. Here is a Euro chart I marked up as an experiment to follow earlier today. I chose levels going back a day and "Gap" levels ( in-between sessions level) as a trade guide to levels to watch. my levels Burke friendly or have I missed anything? Thanks {image} {image}

Hi turnip,

Mate I am not in touch with the other indices & metals charts, but this forex chart query you posted earlier on the EURUSD looks a familiar pattern to me from Forex
which I usually call just a Fake'N'Flip market behaviour (planned imo lol).

You can't know it's a fake at the time, sorry, only after the price resumption back below your Gap High Between Sessions line.

The market ran down after Franky open, a quick reversal and then off it went "above" the Gap High Line (in a known-only afterwards F'N'F).

I assume to take out the two prior 'targets' blue circles (on the yellow line) Asia to the LEFT which apparently was all price wanted to take in that move
as it missed the BRN up at parity 1.0000 by a mere 5 pips.

I have been caught a few times before with these fakes (hunts ?) while price then returns to its intended direction and I keep telling myself to have more patience
though as traders we learn these lessons from real trades (me ) or we study past historical charts for these repeating Market Mechanical Behaviours (me also )

All the best readers & posters, and I enjoy the non-forex charts as well, for my own education cheers.

.
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  • #366
  • Oct 5, 2022 7:02pm Oct 5, 2022 7:02pm
Quoting TimeTells
{quote} Hi turnip, Mate I am not in touch with the other indices & metals charts, but this forex chart query you posted earlier on the EURUSD looks a familiar pattern to me from Forex which I usually call just a Fake'N'Flip market behaviour (planned imo lol). You can't know it's a fake at the time, sorry, only after the price resumption back below your Gap High Between Sessions line. The market ran down after Franky open, a quick reversal and then off it went "above" the Gap High Line (in a known-only afterwards F'N'F). I assume to take out the...
Would Fake 'n' Flip be the same/similar to pump and dump?

In the process of studying past CFD SP500 charts as a proxy for my futures charts (easier to scroll back making it easier to take screen shots). Not sure yet how many back days I will need. Big downside is 5-minute charts only go back to May 2021 (Hope I have an understanding long before then. That's still a lot of days to scroll back and screen shot.).

One thing I do know is that I am voluntarily going down the crash course learning method. Jump in and learn how to trade that time frame as you go along and study.

Take care Pete

As always it is a pleasure

Mark
Mark ... Everything you have been told is a LIE
  • #367
  • Oct 5, 2022 7:25pm Oct 5, 2022 7:25pm
Quoting spzd
{quote}
Would Fake 'n' Flip be the same/similar to pump and dump? In the process of studying past CFD SP500 charts as a proxy for my futures charts (easier to scroll back making it easier to take screen shots). Not sure yet how many back days I will need. Big downside is 5-minute charts only go back to May 2021 (Hope I have an understanding long before then. That's still a lot of days to scroll back and screen shot.). One thing I do know is that I am voluntarily going down the crash course learning method. Jump in and learn how to trade that...

Hi Mark,

Yes & No. In a way I think. Yes in the pure visual aspect maybe.

But no in the sense that when I read about Pump And Dump it was related to stocks and in fact stock fraud in some sense, co-ordinated mischief.

The Fake'N'Flip (all assumption, as I don't know anyone from the industry other than traders) is a visual occurance to me that I bunch in with the many ways the currency market has to operate to be functional and also provide us with the platform to all trade.

This sentence now will be a little cryptic, but has to be that way as without any empirical information of "why", I then always ask myself
"who is taking the opposite side to all our trades if we/retail are only taking the most logical trades based on our own varied methods".

So the F'N'F to me is either a shake-out of built up orders that are sitting in the "correct intended" ultimate direction, that need to either be closed down OR "new" orders enticed in the opposite (fake) direction so as to balance the trading ledgers for "someone".

But in the end, without actual knowledge I just put all these behaviours into a simple category I call the Market Mechanics
(and I put "patterns" in the same category which are just the repeating behaviours of those mechanics).

One thing I do notice though is these Fake'N'Flips which occur often occur around the Franky/London open period
(as in Asia I believe the market is merely setting up a new high & low for the day and other sessions to play with).

As I am asleep in the New York session I can only smile/laugh at the antics there when I get up in the morning and see what THAT session has provided .

All the best pal
  • #368
  • Edited 9:19pm Oct 5, 2022 8:43pm | Edited 9:19pm
Quoting spzd
I have been immersed in learning PA for 2 months. Many 16 hour days, a few longer. Took a few days off the last couple weeks and have slowed way down the last few days, mostly to recharge. Have come a long way, but still a good ways to go. With NFP coming I will take the rest of this week and week end to do some deep study of the SP500 MES. I would like to become as proficient as I possibly can with the SP500. This instrument is looking to be very profitable.
Again I ask a question why you don’t utilise volume data if you’re going to trade MES.
I spend 6 hours a day studying SP500 movements on ESZ22 (E Mini) and also check out it’s little sister MES during NYO.
I watch almost every reasonable move very closely like pump n dumps. The only reason they exist is because a move occurs and other traders don’t take the bait. The markets needs participation by other traders to sustain its move. When others fail to join the move, it dumps. That’s it, not big players trading against the smaller guy which is mostly a just fairy tale.
Market orders destroy any big trader if they are backed by the herd, that’s who we need to join.
Seriously on MES, watch the volume to see if it’s a false move, if it’s less than 500 contracts per minute, do nothing.

The tools available today are incredible, why think like a caveman by only focussing on old Japanese candle stick charts and patterns which are 50 / 50 at best.

You are on the best market

PS. The sister market which MES market follows is controlled by HFT traders so any strategy you decide to use will need to consider those bastards. My own strategy is designed to trade against them solely.
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #369
  • Oct 6, 2022 2:56am Oct 6, 2022 2:56am
Quoting TimeTells
The Fake'N'Flip is a visual occurance to me that I bunch in with the many ways the currency market has to operate to be functional and also provide us with the platform to all trade.


Quoting TimeTells
"who is taking the opposite side to all our trades if we/retail are only taking the most logical trades based on our own varied methods".
WE ARE. OUR STOPS. Instead of wasting time drawing lines on the chart you have to study how market works. Then you will never ask yourself that kind of questions because it is crystal clear who, how and why.

And what you mean "most logical"? You are using drawing tools, historical ohcl data and fake tick data to make MOST LOGICAL entries?
How the heck it can be? Tell me please what the DATA you have? Open, Close, High and Low of small colored rectangles? You think it is "data"? It is not a data. Just colored rectangles. And then you add colored lines you think now "not a data" became "data"? Why? It was not a data. And it is not a data even if you have outstanding drawing skills.
Observer effect
  • #370
  • Oct 6, 2022 3:32am Oct 6, 2022 3:32am
Quoting ryuryu
"who is taking the opposite side to all our trades

WE ARE. OUR STOPS.

Hi ryu, fascinating.

Mate I am trading at the moment but I am running you up a full reply & chart to help you.


While, quickly, from my (stated) crytpic question to myself in my post you quoted above ...

"who is taking the opposite side to all out trades"


Your answer is WE ARE. OUR STOPS.

So can I ask, and specifically to JUST this one question


Who is the WE that you mention in the 'WE ARE" and when did they put their "our stops" right where I am going to trade in the next 5 minutes or next half hour.
  • #371
  • Oct 6, 2022 3:57am Oct 6, 2022 3:57am
Quoting ryuryu
{quote} {quote}

Instead of wasting time drawing lines on the chart you have to study how market works.


Hi ryu, no urgency for your reply.

The trade I indicated I was preparing in my last post to you has just been completed.

And to be honest it didn't matter to me who was taking the other side of my trade, as long as I get paid out.

There no waiting for a volume signal to ring to say liquidity available.

I mainly use qualitative data.


But essentially the WHOLE trade was taken based on nothing more than the Market Mechanics I have alluded to in my posts.

In this trade I used JUST an Inflection Point and Horizontal Lines (all known in advance from historical CANDLES to the LEFT of price)

Hope this helps your understanding.

.
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  • #372
  • Oct 6, 2022 4:11am Oct 6, 2022 4:11am
Quoting TimeTells
{quote} Hi Mark, Yes & No. In a way I think. Yes in the pure visual aspect maybe. But no in the sense that when I read about Pump And Dump it was related to stocks and in fact stock fraud in some sense, co-ordinated mischief. The Fake'N'Flip (all assumption, as I don't know anyone from the industry other than traders) is a visual occurance to me that I bunch in with the many ways the currency market has to operate to be functional and also provide us with the platform to all trade. This sentence now will be a little cryptic, but has to be that way...
This is partly why I will always use my channel as a major arbiter in going into a trade because I often find ( presently) that I get into a trade that accidentally (for me) co-incides with a flip or pump trade. great stuff on this thread, and very help full people,which adds to my confidence levels.
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #373
  • Oct 6, 2022 4:13am Oct 6, 2022 4:13am
Oh dear - I just noticed a troll from many other threads poking about here
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #374
  • Oct 6, 2022 5:18am Oct 6, 2022 5:18am
Quoting TimeTells
{quote} Hi ryu, no urgency for your reply. The trade I indicated I was preparing in my last post to you has just been completed. And to be honest it didn't matter to me who was taking the other side of my trade, as long as I get paid out. There no waiting for a volume signal to ring to say liquidity available. I mainly use qualitative data. But essentially the WHOLE trade was taken based on nothing more than the Market Mechanics I have alluded to in my posts. In this trade I used JUST an Inflection Point and Horizontal Lines (all known in advance...
About time you stopped trading that move Pete. It just doesn’t fit the narrative. No volume, no fancy memberships to obtain ‘data’ which as we know is the only way to trade.
Trading the same move everyday can appear like conspiracy magic to those that want to appear to be super intelligent operating on a higher level but whenever you post a chart Pete, it contains the same move, every time.
A repeatable, observable, provable move.
No need Pete to interact with a dreamer.

Andy.
  • #375
  • Oct 6, 2022 7:03am Oct 6, 2022 7:03am
I seem to have had some interesting visitors.

I am going to say this right up front here.

I like the method I have chosen. It is simple. But challenging at the same time.

I look at trading and the markets beyond the money and the numbers. I know it is all about the numbers, whether volume or price or level and in my own crude way I collect data to help me determine probabilities. It is also much more than this. It is, in its own way, an art form. Something leaning towards the abstract. Or perhaps modern dance.

It is also a philosophical adventure. With the main philosophical discussion being, what really creates and moves price. I lean hard to the "artificial" (whether a group of people or an actual artificial sentient entity is a side debate - at least in my head lol) faction.

The moral of the story is still I have no use for volume.

All I ask is that those who I disagree with, and you know who you are, to not be such a nuisance that I have to do the ban thing.
Mark ... Everything you have been told is a LIE
  • #376
  • Oct 6, 2022 8:07am Oct 6, 2022 8:07am
Quoting TimeTells
{quote} Hi turnip, Happens all the time mate. Just that it doesn't happen everytime (which is what tricks traders I reckon and has other gurus therefore concluding it can't work, and imho sadly they miss the beauty of such market repetitions). Both Mark & Kev (Blue) have rekindled the S Burke info sessions, which incorporate (and as Stacey says has been going on in markets for 100 years) the 3-level pushes (which are fractal) and then where Stacey talks about them holding price up there (or down) for an extended period of time before the vertical...

Light bulb moment for me.
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #377
  • Oct 6, 2022 8:09am Oct 6, 2022 8:09am
Quoting spzd
The best decision I have ever made in my trading history (and I have been doing this part time for almost 30 years) is adapting Stacey Burke's method. All FREE. All the info he has put out the last three years - SAME. A very viable method that is completely wash, rinse, repeat. Time HOD/LOD BRN Basic entry using pin-hammer and engulfing bars. All easily tradable off the M15 chart. This method truly is simplicity at its best. Then you go and trade it live the first time and realize you need to touch up on chart reading. (My excuse to the wife is...
This post deserves "bumping" up in my very humble opinion of course.
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #378
  • Oct 6, 2022 8:11am Oct 6, 2022 8:11am
Quoting RickM
{quote} Again I ask a question why you don’t utilise volume data if you’re going to trade MES. I spend 6 hours a day studying SP500 movements on ESZ22 (E Mini) and also check out it’s little sister MES during NYO. I watch almost every reasonable move very closely like pump n dumps. The only reason they exist is because a move occurs and other traders don’t take the bait. The markets needs participation by other traders to sustain its move. When others fail to join the move, it dumps. That’s it, not big players trading against the smaller guy which...
Hey Rick,

Why is it so imperative that I use volume?

I like what I am doing. I have been working towrd making what I am doing a reality for a few years. Why would I suddenly change course right at the end of a long-sought goal.

We see the market in such diametrically opposing ways I would not know where to start. My thinking may be like a caveman to you, but this (my) method goes far beyond just old Japanese candle sticks.

Thanks for stopping by

Quoting ryuryu
{quote} {quote} WE ARE. OUR STOPS. Instead of wasting time drawing lines on the chart you have to study how market works. Then you will never ask yourself that kind of questions because it is crystal clear who, how and why. And what you mean "most logical"? You are using drawing tools, historical ohcl data and fake tick data to make MOST LOGICAL entries? How the heck it can be? Tell me please what the DATA you have? Open, Close, High and Low of small colored rectangles? You think...
Hello. Don't know your name, but you seem to work in tandem with Rick at times so I will call you Little Ricky.

While we waste, as you call it, our time drawing lines - we actually are studying how the market works. It also seems our definitions of data vary some.

I also know that you come across very vile and angry many times. I will not tolerate that.
Mark ... Everything you have been told is a LIE
  • #379
  • Oct 6, 2022 8:24am Oct 6, 2022 8:24am
Quoting spzd
{quote} Hey Rick, Why is it so imperative that I use volume? I like what I am doing. I have been working towrd making what I am doing a reality for a few years. Why would I suddenly change course right at the end of a long-sought goal. We see the market in such diametrically opposing ways I would not know where to start. My thinking may be like a caveman to you, but this (my) method goes far beyond just old Japanese candle sticks. Thanks for stopping by {quote} Hello. Don't know your name, but you seem to work in tandem with Rick at times so I will...
Just a quick aside.

My waste of time horizontal lines, O, H, L, C, candle sticks combined with my Neanderthal thought process netted me 22 points premarket and I am done trading and will now study.
Mark ... Everything you have been told is a LIE
  • #380
  • Oct 6, 2022 8:26am Oct 6, 2022 8:26am
Quoting spzd
{quote} Hey Rick, Why is it so imperative that I use volume? I like what I am doing. I have been working towrd making what I am doing a reality for a few years. Why would I suddenly change course right at the end of a long-sought goal. We see the market in such diametrically opposing ways I would not know where to start. My thinking may be like a caveman to you, but this (my) method goes far beyond just old Japanese candle sticks. Thanks for stopping by {quote} Hello. Don't know your name, but you seem to work in tandem with Rick at times so I will...
Hi spzd

I wish you the best.
My point is trading on Futures is expensive and the only reason to do so is have access to volume data. Otherwise its cheaper to trade S&P 500 with CFD's and not bother paying for something you don't need.

I C Markets has good spreads on the S&P, and zero data fees unlike Futures where you are paying about $100 a month for access to a good platform and data plus fees just for pushing a buy button. As an example, last night I was trading ESZ22 (E mini S&P) where I took well over 60 trades. At 4pm this afternoon, AMP futures withdrawn $640 from my account to pay for those trades.

Thats a real pain in the backside and the only reason I am happy to pay is I manage to profit enough to pay a wage.

Cheers
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
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