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Trading Made Simple(r)

  • #7,321
  • Edited 2:40pm Jan 31, 2022 1:48pm | Edited 2:40pm
Quoting RiskLove
Hi Robinhood. Thanks for the great thread. I see you recommend "phanthoms gift" as a book to read and I was wondering if you implemented Rule 2. From Phanthom of the Pits, in your trading. He talks about a 3-2-1 structure in his book for a total of three entries. I'm just curious to see where you would add to a position if any at all. I'm testing it with the (signal+1bar) and (signal+2bars) as my addon entries but so far havent been having much success with it. The initial entry is great. It's the next two that I'm trying to improve.
I read that book over 20 years ago so I don't really remember too much about it, so I can't comment it what's in it at the moment. But I really like that book A LOT.

You have to remember that The Phantom was a "Pit Trader" who traded in the trading pits in Chicago. They didn't have charts in the pits (hell, I knew more about technical analysis than they did because they knew almost nothing about it and I traded using live online charts), many of them just bought at or around "Pivot Point Numbers". They bought the numbers from the same guy each morning, and many of those guys only bought and sold at or around those points because they were like magnets because everyone knew what they were.

They would often build a trade by adding contracts as the momentum built, basically they fed off of each other's emotions and many of them just yelled all day long.

I was at the CME (Chicago Mercantile Exchange) one day where many of the trading pits were located (the others were at the CBOT and the NYMEX). There was a pit, I think it was Live Hogs, and there were only 2 traders in it. They got into a fist fight, then when they were done, they had to get up and go back to trading with each other, otherwise, neither of them could execute trades that were hand signaled in to them, by brokers, for their customers. LOL!

It's a well known fact that many of those pit traders were either alcoholics or drug addicts, or both...with a bit of a gambling addiction thrown in for good measure.

Whenever I visited my brokers there, we ALWAYS went to a bar that was close by the exchange after the markets closed at 3PM Central Time. And the men's bathroom was a like a drug dealer's paradise where traders bought cocaine and snorted it in the stalls.

And don't even get me started the mobsters who traded in the pits!

As they say, those were the good ole days!

BTW, my back-testing has always shown that you are best off by putting on your full position at the beginning and not adding to it, and also exiting the whole position all at once.
Always a Student, Never a Master - Emulate What Works
  • #7,322
  • Jan 31, 2022 2:57pm Jan 31, 2022 2:57pm
Interesting story. I've always wondered how it was even possible to trade that way. Good to have a sneak peak behind the scenes.

So far that's what my back testing is bringing me to the same conclusion. Thank you.
  • #7,323
  • Jan 31, 2022 3:07pm Jan 31, 2022 3:07pm
I have a theory about adding to a trade. I even built the robot to handle it. But never had the time to try it. It goes:

You take a trade with all the normal signals. But this trade need to be a bit more certain than normal. A good continuing trade perhaps. You take the trade at H1. At the close of every bar you measure if the close is higher (in Long trade) than the former bar. If that is the case then you switch to M15. And there you add on every time the M15 bar is higher than the former M15 bar. Because this means that the pair is still trending. That would be maximum 3 addons. Now if the new H1 bar is again higher than the former one you repeat the process.

I don't know if this is every H1 bar or only the first 2 or 3 H1 bars. I don't know much, because I have not tested it or developed it. This is just an idea. I haven't read it in a book, so nobody else has tested it.
MetaTrader 4 - so many advantages.
  • #7,324
  • Edited 3:23pm Jan 31, 2022 3:12pm | Edited 3:23pm
Quoting RiskFighter
I have a theory about adding to a trade. I even built the robot to handle it. But never had the time to try it. It goes: You take a trade with all the normal signals. But this trade need to be a bit more certain than normal. A good continuing trade perhaps. You take the trade at H1. At the close of every bar you measure if the close is higher (in Long trade) than the former bar. If that is the case then you switch to M15. And there you add on every time the M15 bar is higher than the former M15 bar. Because this means that the pair is still trending....
So watch the pair for signals at H4 or D. Take the trade at H1. And add on at M15 whenever it is still trending.

Hmm - I am trying out the RH strategy on demo this week anyway. Why don't I try it out!
MetaTrader 4 - so many advantages.
  • #7,325
  • Jan 31, 2022 3:18pm Jan 31, 2022 3:18pm
I know a trader who is a multi millionaire - made by trading, and that is proofed. Add on is a vital part of his strategy. He has a Telegram channel where he trades live - with a Hugh amount of real money for everybody to watch and it therefore is very sure that he does add on to certain trades every day. I have watched it many times. But he is a naked chart trader and I cannot use his wisdom for anything, cause I am a robot trader.
MetaTrader 4 - so many advantages.
  • #7,326
  • Jan 31, 2022 3:28pm Jan 31, 2022 3:28pm
Quoting RiskFighter
I have a theory about adding to a trade. I even built the robot to handle it. But never had the time to try it. It goes: You take a trade with all the normal signals. But this trade need to be a bit more certain than normal. A good continuing trade perhaps. You take the trade at H1. At the close of every bar you measure if the close is higher (in Long trade) than the former bar. If that is the case then you switch to M15. And there you add on every time the M15 bar is higher than the former M15 bar. Because this means that the pair is still trending....
I think you're correct. Usually by the second bar after the signal its too late to get in and avoid any retracements. So the first bar AFTER the signal candle closes is where would be the best place to add, on a lower time frame.

I've got a lot of testing before coming with an answer for this.
  • #7,327
  • Jan 31, 2022 3:37pm Jan 31, 2022 3:37pm
Quoting RiskFighter
I know a trader who is a multi millionaire - made by trading, and that is proofed. Add on is a vital part of his strategy. He has a Telegram channel where he trades live - with a Hugh amount of real money for everybody to watch and it therefore is very sure that he does add on to certain trades every day. I have watched it many times. But he is a naked chart trader and I cannot use his wisdom for anything, cause I am a robot trader.
Can you share how he structures his addons?

In the Phanthom book. He suggests adding 3 total entries in a pyramid formation. (ex. 150-100-50) With both addons combined are the same size as the initial entry. This in theory allows you to be wrong on smaller positions but when you're right, you're right on double your entry size. Curious to see how others might structure them.
  • #7,328
  • Jan 31, 2022 4:06pm Jan 31, 2022 4:06pm
Quoting RiskLove
{quote} Can you share how he structures his addons? In the Phanthom book. He suggests adding 3 total entries in a pyramid formation. (ex. 150-100-50) With both addons combined are the same size as the initial entry. This in theory allows you to be wrong on smaller positions but when you're right, you're right on double your entry size. Curious to see how others might structure them.
But if you get into a long trend - say 15 bars, then you can add on for at least 10 bars if they are positive. Maybe a volume indicator should be part of the signal.

Trader Tom - is his nick name. You can easily find him on Youtube. But be aware, there are many fake profiles. He has no hair on his head. Tom makes money by trading. He then teach his disciples to trade - for free. He never ever takes money for anything he does.

His method for add on? Yes very simple - whenever he feel for it. He is a master in recognizing bar patterns on the naked chart. From that he knows what the bulls and the bears are thinking and what they will do. And there are times were he goes crazy in adding. But of cause - he trades while 1,000 people are watching and sometimes he burn the fingers. That is part of the game even for the best.
MetaTrader 4 - so many advantages.
  • #7,329
  • Edited 4:45pm Jan 31, 2022 4:17pm | Edited 4:45pm
Quoting RiskFighter
I know a trader who is a multi millionaire - made by trading, and that is proofed. Add on is a vital part of his strategy. He has a Telegram channel where he trades live - with a Hugh amount of real money for everybody to watch and it therefore is very sure that he does add on to certain trades every day. I have watched it many times. But he is a naked chart trader and I cannot use his wisdom for anything, cause I am a robot trader.
I have no doubt that what you say is true, and I do think that it does make sense for certain types of traders. Ones that have truly developed the skill (or a system) to do it more profitably more often than not. But that just hasn't ever been the case for me...and I wrote computerized mechanical trading systems along with optimal stops and profit targets that I sold to others for many years.

I have a saying (that I made up)...

"Just because Michael Jordan teaches you how to play basketball doesn't mean that you will ever be able to play basketball like Michael Jordan"

So the question becomes: Can this trader teach others to do it more profitably way more often than not? Otherwise, he's just a Michael Jordan.
Always a Student, Never a Master - Emulate What Works
  • #7,330
  • Jan 31, 2022 9:44pm Jan 31, 2022 9:44pm
Quoting Eod
{quote} {file} here it is

Hi, Ive been using this trading system and like its simplicity. Also i like smTMMS-RobinHood DB_2.2.

Has anyone got the RobinHood DB got a version this with Alerts built into.

Thanks
  • #7,331
  • Edited 7:43am Feb 1, 2022 2:06am | Edited 7:43am
Quoting RobinHood
{quote} I have no doubt that what you say is true, and I do think that it does make sense for certain types of traders. Ones that have truly developed the skill (or a system) to do it more profitably more often than not. But that just hasn't ever been the case for me...and I wrote computerized mechanical trading systems along with optimal stops and profit targets that I sold to others for many years. I have a saying (that I made up)... "Just because Michael Jordan teaches you how to play basketball doesn't mean that you will ever be able to play...
I do agree. It seems that some very few can learn from him. The majority cannot. I for once cannot, and i never thought i could. I followed him for a while because we are from the same country and because his telegram Channel and YouTube videos are cosy. AND because whatever you do, then you are always picking up something. That is why I look at the market and strategies most of my waken hours.
MetaTrader 4 - so many advantages.
  • #7,332
  • Feb 1, 2022 9:15am Feb 1, 2022 9:15am
Can I ask that anyone who is trading this with good results to share their additional confluences they are using pls??

I have been testing using the entry method as described in post 1, with 1:1 R/R, SL based on 2 bars back/swing points if not too far away.

I have also added 1 TF higher, for confluence ensuring either exact same criteria in post 1 is met or trend looks to be turning, e.g. Bars turn red to blue or blue to red.

Still get caught in quite a few bad trades..........

Whats everyone else doing in addition? Checking 3 timeframes? Using S/R, using Fib retractment levels?

Thanks.
  • #7,333
  • Feb 1, 2022 9:50am Feb 1, 2022 9:50am
Quoting nmuscles
Can I ask that anyone who is trading this with good results to share their additional confluences they are using pls?? I have been testing using the entry method as described in post 1, with 1:1 R/R, SL based on 2 bars back/swing points if not too far away. I have also added 1 TF higher, for confluence ensuring either exact same criteria in post 1 is met or trend looks to be turning, e.g. Bars turn red to blue or blue to red. Still get caught in quite a few bad trades.......... Whats everyone else doing in addition? Checking 3 timeframes? Using...
You could learn wychoff, or apply Multitimeframe Analysis. From top ---> down. Check D1 first, then H4, entry M15/M30-
  • #7,334
  • Feb 1, 2022 9:57am Feb 1, 2022 9:57am
Quoting nmuscles
Can I ask that anyone who is trading this with good results to share their additional confluences they are using pls?? I have been testing using the entry method as described in post 1, with 1:1 R/R, SL based on 2 bars back/swing points if not too far away. I have also added 1 TF higher, for confluence ensuring either exact same criteria in post 1 is met or trend looks to be turning, e.g. Bars turn red to blue or blue to red. Still get caught in quite a few bad trades.......... Whats everyone else doing in addition? Checking 3 timeframes? Using...
Post your entries on your trades and I'm sure Robinhood will critique them.

With ~7 indicators, I don't think there is a need to add anymore. The only "extra" indicator I added was the next higher TF RSI. So, if I am trading the 4hr, I add the Daily RSI to my 4hr chart.
Remember, the market never lies. It is only we who lie to ourselves.
  • #7,335
  • Feb 1, 2022 10:25am Feb 1, 2022 10:25am
Quoting nmuscles
Can I ask that anyone who is trading this with good results to share their additional confluences they are using pls?? I have been testing using the entry method as described in post 1, with 1:1 R/R, SL based on 2 bars back/swing points if not too far away. I have also added 1 TF higher, for confluence ensuring either exact same criteria in post 1 is met or trend looks to be turning, e.g. Bars turn red to blue or blue to red. Still get caught in quite a few bad trades.......... Whats everyone else doing in addition? Checking 3 timeframes? Using...
This method is from Robin and if he can be a winner with, then we should also. I think that Robin is the one to answer your question. Because the method is straight forward.

I wait to trade a signal until the value has passed the close of the former bars. Robin wrote this somewhere. I also read that he is not especially watching to trade only with the trend. If the entry signals are present, then he take the trade. I intend to test this exactly as described in post #1.

You should keep a journal and show it here on the page. Then we can easier look into what might be the problem. When and in which direction did you take trades and what were the result.
MetaTrader 4 - so many advantages.
  • #7,336
  • Edited Feb 2, 2022 9:55am Feb 1, 2022 11:55am | Edited Feb 2, 2022 9:55am
Let me throw some random thoughts out about trading.

There is no Holy Grail of trading so quit looking for it NOW.

The BIG secret in trading is that there is no BIG secret, so quit looking for it NOW.

There is no perfect trading method, just find some ways to get in and out of trades that CONSISTENTLY WORK. Such as: There are Continuation Trades on EVERY chart in EVERY time frame on ANYTHING that is actively traded. Stocks, Forex, Commodities, Futures, Metals, Crytpos, etc., etc., etc.

You are going to make the most money during trends, so figure out a way to get in early...and RIDE it! And if you are wrong, GET OUT quickly.

You are going to lose money during choppy periods, so figure out a logical method(s) to place a close stop. AND, actually literally place them, for every single trade you ever make. Trust me, adopting that habit will save your ass over and over again.

Think of making trades like a baseball player, only instead of hitting a ball you are placing trades. Many, many, many, many trades. He only has to get on base 3 times out of 10 and he's a superstar. Try to realize that that's also all you have to do, IF you follow what I wrote above.

Resign yourself to the fact that you can't consistently buy at the bottom, nor exit at the top. The best you can do is to consistently take a chunk out of the middle, and learn to be content with that.

Don't watch the financial new channels. Those talking heads are wrong way more often than they are right, and very often what they are spouting is likely because they have some underlying agenda. They are doing the same thing to you but with financial news that the cable news channels are doing, which is trying to make you lean to the left or lean to the right. NEITHER of them "pitch straight down the middle".

Also, REALLY try to ingrain this into your mind..."Striving for excellence motivates you; striving for perfection is demoralizing."

More to come
Always a Student, Never a Master - Emulate What Works
  • #7,337
  • Feb 1, 2022 12:11pm Feb 1, 2022 12:11pm
Quoting RiskFighter
{quote} I wait to trade a signal until the value has passed the close of the former bars.
This brings up a question that I have and I would like to see what others do.
Do you wait until the current value has passed the close of the previous bar, or the high or low of the previous bar?
  • #7,338
  • Feb 1, 2022 12:24pm Feb 1, 2022 12:24pm
Quoting RobinHood
Let me throw some random thoughts out about trading. There is no Holy Grail of trading so quit looking for it NOW. The BIG secret in trading is that there is no BIG secret, so quit looking for it NOW.
of course there IS!

the BIG SECRET is called ANNUAL TREND!

they can only tickle your balls, if you trade it... but who does that?
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #7,339
  • Feb 1, 2022 12:28pm Feb 1, 2022 12:28pm
Quoting senkyoshi
{quote} This brings up a question that I have and I would like to see what others do. Do you wait until the current value has passed the close of the previous bar, or the high or low of the previous bar?
Yeah, I started to implement that.

Once the set-up (the candle that tells me to take a trade) closes, I then wait for a candle to break the high or low of the set-up candle before entering.

I sometimes place a buy/sell stop at that level with a stop loss and take profit in place in case something happens when I am sleeping, etc.

I can't push this enough, don't strategy hop. You can make money with this method (and many others) but like Robinhood has said, "learn like you are trying to become a rocket scientist"
Remember, the market never lies. It is only we who lie to ourselves.
  • #7,340
  • Feb 1, 2022 12:42pm Feb 1, 2022 12:42pm
Quoting RobinHood
Let me throw some random thoughts out about trading. There is no Holy Grail of trading so quit looking for it NOW. The BIG secret in trading is that there is no BIG secret, so quit looking for it NOW. There is no perfect trading method, just find some ways to get in and out of trades that CONSISTENTLY WORK. Such as: There are Continuation Trades on EVERY chart in EVERY time frame on ANYTHING that is actively traded. Stocks, Forex, Commodities, Futures, Metals, Crytpos, etc., etc., etc. You are going to make the most money during trends, so figure...
Please be more sharp. The question is: Did you develop a method for traders to be profitable or do we have to add our own confluences? That is what nmuscles ask. If so, then he ask people what they do to make the method profitable.
MetaTrader 4 - so many advantages.
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