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  • #7,181
  • Jan 13, 2022 6:44am Jan 13, 2022 6:44am
Thank you RobinHood! I was struggling with mt SL's, now I'm not! Thank you so much!

Green pips!
  • #7,182
  • Jan 13, 2022 10:16am Jan 13, 2022 10:16am
Do you only use an exit signal to exit the trade in profit, or do you use a fixed risk-return?
  • #7,183
  • Edited 11:59am Jan 13, 2022 11:03am | Edited 11:59am
Quoting Given1988
Do you only use an exit signal to exit the trade in profit, or do you use a fixed risk-return?
I am not sure who you are asking the question, but I will tell you my opinion.

Personally, I only ever exit when the indicators tell me to as you never know how far a trade can go.

So how do I know when the indicators are telling me to exit?

There are many, many ways the indicators can tell you, but you have to decide which way(s) you are going use as there is no one perfect way to exit every trade using indicators.

For example...

1. When the RSI dips below the 50 Purple Line.
2. When the 2 ma's in the upper window cross.
3. When either of the Stochastics cross below the 50 Purple Line.
4. When the HMA changes color.
5. When either or both Stochastics is green or blue and one or both change back to grey, or when they are red or orange and one or both change back to grey.
6. When an important trendline is violated.
7. When a certain trading pattern breaks out to the opposite direction of your trade.
8. When the Heiken Ashi and/or the Synergy_APB change to the opposite color.
9. When a previous swing point gets violated.
10. When "2 bars back" gets violated.
11. Just before big reports or big announcements, like the the Fed chairman speaking.
12. Even just sometimes slow times of the day (if you are trading a short time frame) or 5 minutes before the Daily Close (before the spreads get too wide).
13. On or near holidays and/or weekends.
13. When any 2 (or more) combinations of the above say to exit at the same time.

As you can imagine, there are many, many, many, possible combinations.

I am not going to say my favorite way or ways to exit a trade because then someone will then try to code it and turn what I have created into a mechanical trading system which was not my intention when I created this thread. I am trying to "teach you to trade" using multiple methods and your own mind, and not just give you a trading system.

Lastly, my favorite way to enter a trade is a "Continuation Trade"....And, the most reliable one is the first one after the ma's cross over.
Always a Student, Never a Master - Emulate What Works
  • #7,184
  • Jan 13, 2022 11:46am Jan 13, 2022 11:46am
Quoting RobinHood
{quote} I am not sure who you are asking the question, but I will tell you my opinion. Personally, I only ever exit when the indicators tell me too as you never know how far a trade can go. So how do I know when the indicators are telling me to exit? There are many, many ways the indicators can tell you, but you have to decide which way(s) you are going use as there is no one perfect way to exit every trade using indicators. For example... 1. When the RSI dips below the 50 Purple Line. 2. When the 2 ma's in the upper window cross. 3. When either...
Thank you very much for explaining
Your advice is always gold
  • #7,185
  • Jan 13, 2022 2:33pm Jan 13, 2022 2:33pm
Robinhood,

Thank you for all the help so far. I do have a question though because, for some reason, my head can't wrap my head around it.

I understand if we trade the 4HR TF, to check the Daily TF to confirm the trend. If unsure, check Weekly TF.

But for some pairs, I get confused. For example, GBPCAD, 4HR is flat (RSI is below 50), Daily is showing a downtrend but the RSI is at 51, Weekly is up and RSI is right at 50. I feel like with all the pairs out there, just avoid this pair.

Or GBPNZD. 4HR has crossed over 7 bars ago, but the daily TF just started showing a downtrend (but the RSI is still above 50) and weekly is showing an uptrend.

Do you feel like if we wait for the higher TF to turn into our favor, the 4HR has already made the move? I apologize for the newbie question. I guess I am trying to find a better way in my head to confirm the direction of the trend. I almost want to remove all the indicators from the Daily TF but the RSI and if it is above/below the 50, that'll tell me the trend to follow on the 4HR
Remember, the market never lies. It is only we who lie to ourselves.
  • #7,186
  • Jan 13, 2022 3:27pm Jan 13, 2022 3:27pm
Quoting stiffdogg06
Robinhood, Thank you for all the help so far. I do have a question though because, for some reason, my head can't wrap my head around it. I understand if we trade the 4HR TF, to check the Daily TF to confirm the trend. If unsure, check Weekly TF. But for some pairs, I get confused. For example, GBPCAD, 4HR is flat (RSI is below 50), Daily is showing a downtrend but the RSI is at 51, Weekly is up and RSI is right at 50. I feel like with all the pairs out there, just avoid this pair. Or GBPNZD. 4HR has crossed over 7 bars ago, but the daily TF just...
Just my 10 cents. To gauge the trend one would probably be better off looking at whether obvious extremes have been taken out (as well as HHs, LLs) and/or whether price was flat for a long time before 'trend' emerged.
  • #7,187
  • Jan 13, 2022 5:09pm Jan 13, 2022 5:09pm
Quoting stiffdogg06
Robinhood, Thank you for all the help so far. I do have a question though because, for some reason, my head can't wrap my head around it. I understand if we trade the 4HR TF, to check the Daily TF to confirm the trend. If unsure, check Weekly TF. But for some pairs, I get confused. For example, GBPCAD, 4HR is flat (RSI is below 50), Daily is showing a downtrend but the RSI is at 51, Weekly is up and RSI is right at 50. I feel like with all the pairs out there, just avoid this pair. Or GBPNZD. 4HR has crossed over 7 bars ago, but the daily TF just...
I completely understand your frustrations. I used to have them sometimes trading the 4 hr. Forex too. BUT, I finally wised up and started trading Daily charts and taking guidance from the Weekly chart. So you might want to consider doing that also.

1. You don't NEED to trade a bunch of different pairs. Why not just pick the best trending 1, 2, 3, or 4 pairs?? It's a much smarter and easier way to trade the Forex.

2. I DON'T TRADE UGLY charts. Look at the Weekly GBPCAD chart. That's one butt ugly chart and so you should not be trading it.

3. When you wait for the for the higher time frame to confirm, yes, the lower time frame will have always had to have made a move first, BUT, these methods only make money during trends, and so it is easier to make money trading the lower time AFTER the higher time frame starts trending.

4. You should look at it the opposite way from the way you do. Instead of trading the lower time frame and waiting for the higher time frame to turn (if it' hasn't already), you should wait for the higher time frame to start trending, and THEN go trade the lower time frame. It's the same thing, but a totally different mindset.

Lastly, I don't have all the right answers. I just give my opinions, and sometimes I change them too!
Always a Student, Never a Master - Emulate What Works
  • #7,188
  • Jan 13, 2022 6:00pm Jan 13, 2022 6:00pm
Quoting RobinHood
{quote} I completely understand your frustrations. I used to have them sometimes trading the 4 hr. Forex too. BUT, I finally wised up and started trading Daily charts and taking guidance from the Weekly chart. So you might want to consider doing that also. 1. You don't NEED to trade a bunch of different pairs. Why not just pick the best trending 1, 2, 3, or 4 pairs?? It's a much smarter and easier way to trade the Forex. 2. I DON'T TRADE UGLY charts. Look at the Weekly GBPCAD chart. That's one butt ugly chart and so you should not be trading it....



This makes total sense and I greatly appreciate you still taking the time to help me out.

I have this problem that I feel like I have to watch a bunch of pairs to catch every move. So, over time when the handful of pairs I watch aren't making moves, I start adding others which is detrimental to me mentally. It's a curse.

It's funny that you said I should go to the Daily, I have been looking at Daily charts all evening. I use to trade 5-15M, so I thought 4HR would be a good medium but after looking at the Daily's for the last 4-5 hours, I do like how they move.

And you are absolutely correct on the GC Weekly chart. It's been in a range for damn near 6 years even more so the last 2-3 years. This makes sense because I remember Emmanual posted this a while back:

"When Monday market open at my end, I scan through my watchlist 20 pairs Weekly charts and look for new setups and if there is already an established trend after a recent CROSSOVER, I will drop down to Daily. If Weekly shows that price bars HA candles are small and trapped within its HMA and 5EMA, I skip the pair. I wait until there is a new price move outside the HMA and 5EMA.
Then I scan through all my daily charts and see if there are new CROSSOVER setups or CONTINUATION setups. If there is any, I simply open my positions.
If Daily shows an established trend after a recent CROSSOVER, I'll wait on H4 for setups."

More of a top-down approach.

So, if you look at the USDCAD Weekly, you'll see it just crossed over to the downside and all indicators point to a downtrend. Daily is already in an established downtrend. 4HR is going up and in a stand-by pattern for a cross back down.

Again, I appreciate you helping me out.
Remember, the market never lies. It is only we who lie to ourselves.
  • #7,189
  • Jan 14, 2022 6:36am Jan 14, 2022 6:36am
Quoting stiffdogg06
{quote} This makes total sense and I greatly appreciate you still taking the time to help me out. I have this problem that I feel like I have to watch a bunch of pairs to catch every move. So, over time when the handful of pairs I watch aren't making moves, I start adding others which is detrimental to me mentally. It's a curse. It's funny that you said I should go to the Daily, I have been looking at Daily charts all evening. I use to trade 5-15M, so I thought 4HR would be a good medium but after looking at the Daily's for the last 4-5 hours, I...
You're welcome.

A couple of observations about the USDCAD...

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: USDCAD.PNG Size: 77 KB


1. On the Weekly chart, price basically went down to and bounced at/near the lower trendline, so that's not a good sign for the shorts right now.

2. The way I enter (if I was ignoring that trendline) would be to wait for this current weekly bar to close, and then enter if/when the next bar takes out the low by a few pips. This is a very important rule for me when I trade anything...Forex, stocks, futures, commodities, etc.

3. Plus, the smTMMS Oscillator has not CLOSED below zero yet.

Being patient and waiting for these things to happen (using any time frame) is one of the hardest parts of trading.

For me, it always seems that a market wants punish me for breaking my own rules...strangely enough.

And yeah, I don't care who it is, we have all done it many, many times. But you have to learn to stop.
Always a Student, Never a Master - Emulate What Works
  • #7,190
  • Jan 14, 2022 6:52am Jan 14, 2022 6:52am
Quoting RobinHood
{quote} You're welcome. A couple of observations about the USDCAD... {image} 1. On the Weekly chart, price basically went down to and bounced at/near the lower trendline, so that's not a good sign for the shorts right now. 2. The way I enter (if I was ignoring that trendline) would be to wait for this current weekly bar to close, and then enter if/when the next bar takes out the low by a few pips. This is a very important rule for me when I trade anything...Forex, stocks, futures, commodities, etc. 3. Plus, the smTMMS Oscillator has not CLOSED below...
Funny you posted that USDCAD trendline. After I made that post, I drew that exact trendline after I sat down for the night and starting going through charts (I enjoy it)

And that is what's cursing me. Be patient and letting the trade come to me especially those 4HR/Daily TF's. I had to delete the MT4 app from my phone. I work in a secure area with no cell phone access, so we leave our phones in the lobby. I'd go out every few hours and check the trades... Sometimes I'd exit trades if I am in a good profit even though the indicators aren't telling me to.

I've passed 2 Prop Firm challenges with this method and working on the 3rd which will be the final one I will trade with. I just need to trust my SL spots and the indicators on what they are telling me.

Is it Sunday evening yet?
Remember, the market never lies. It is only we who lie to ourselves.
  • #7,191
  • Edited 9:15am Jan 14, 2022 8:28am | Edited 9:15am
Quoting stiffdogg06
{quote} Funny you posted that USDCAD trendline. After I made that post, I drew that exact trendline after I sat down for the night and starting going through charts (I enjoy it) And that is what's cursing me. Be patient and letting the trade come to me especially those 4HR/Daily TF's. I had to delete the MT4 app from my phone. I work in a secure area with no cell phone access, so we leave our phones in the lobby. I'd go out every few hours and check the trades... Sometimes I'd exit trades if I am in a good profit even though the indicators aren't...
There's a saying in trading...

Too Many Traders "Eat Like a Bird and Shit Like an Elephant" meaning...they take small profits and large losses.

One of the most renowned commodity traders ever told me that he didn't care how often he was wrong, just so as long as he always lost small.

He also told me that you have to learn to be very patient while waiting for the right trades to properly set-up (he only used a few ma's, a few trading patterns and trendlines). He told me that he always envisioned himself "Like a Lizard Waiting on a Rock" when waiting for just the right time to enter a trade (he only traded daily charts).

Another pretty famous commodity trader told me that he had made 1,000's of trades in his life, but just one trade made him REALLY rich (by that point in his career, relatively speaking...because he held on for so long). He said it was the hardest thing in the world to not "ring the cash register" when there was over a million dollars of profit in the trade (this was a wheat trade that he did in 1974). * He was one of the many guys that I paid to teach me how to trade like he/they did.

You can read some interesting stuff about him below, and he also offers some good trading advice in the interview:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...-9c712d8fd8b9/

BTW, that's commendable that you have passed 2 prop firm challenges so far.
Always a Student, Never a Master - Emulate What Works
  • #7,192
  • Edited 10:50am Jan 14, 2022 9:41am | Edited 10:50am
Awesome. Thank you for all that.

Granted, the challenges were for $5k accounts. I am currently in a $100k challenge using this method only. Hopefully, I'll pass it and become funded, 80/20 profit split. The problem with these prop firms, is there profit goals are outrageous which is why most fail. 8-10% in 30 days. If you could get 10% monthly, I'd be a billionaire hedge fund manager...

I apologize for all the questions. I've read all 300+ pages and have been editing the word document that was posted throughout the thread but some of the information gets lost in the chaos of trying to learn.

Trading the 4hr & Daily TF's definitely taste patience and it's been hard.

Also, another question. I saw you like "Zen In The Markets". Why do you like that book? And what is your opinion on Mark Douglas material?
Remember, the market never lies. It is only we who lie to ourselves.
  • #7,193
  • Edited 1:12pm Jan 14, 2022 11:54am | Edited 1:12pm
Quoting stiffdogg06
Awesome. Thank you for all that. Granted, the challenges were for $5k accounts. I am currently in a $100k challenge using this method only. Hopefully, I'll pass it and become funded, 80/20 profit split. The problem with these prop firms, is there profit goals are outrageous which is why most fail. 8-10% in 30 days. If you could get 10% monthly, I'd be a billionaire hedge fund manager... I apologize for all the questions. I've read all 300+ pages and have been editing the word document that was posted throughout the thread but some of the information...
To be honest, I read that book nearly 30 years ago and I don't remember now why I liked it so much, I just pulled it off of my bookshelf and browsed through it.

The first thing I noticed was that I had marked about 1/2 the book with yellow highlighter, and that's pretty rare for me to do to a whole book. I do this so that if/when I want to read them again, I only read the parts that I thought were important instead of having to read the whole book again to find the important parts.

I guess the takeaway is that there's lots of good stuff in the book.

Mark Douglas wrote 2 books that I have read. "The Disciplined Trader" and "Trading in the Zone".

I remember liking "The Disciplined Trader" more than I liked the other one. But both books are very good and should be read by all traders in my opinion.
Always a Student, Never a Master - Emulate What Works
  • #7,194
  • Jan 16, 2022 11:03am Jan 16, 2022 11:03am
After banging my head against the wall and researching all weekend about what I could do that didn't change the method in regards to confirming with the higher TF.

I've decided to stop switching TF's and just add the higher TF RSI to my trading chart (i.e. On my 4HR, I have the Daily RSI. On my Daily TF, I have the Weekly RSI.) RH stated he WILL NOT trade against the RSI on the higher TF, so I figured I'd see how this works.

Now, this may not work for you, but when I look at the higher TF and see only a few indicators pointing in the direction of the trade, I question myself and get paralysis by analysis. I am too OCD to enter a trade when all 7 indicators do not match.

Basically, all I do is if the higher TF (Daily or Weekly) RSI is above 50, I just wait for the 4HR or Daily Trading Chart to show me a trade entry. Does it work every time? Of course not. But this just helps me better visualize the higher TF trend.

Here is a chart marking off the some of entries on the 4HR & Daily Charts.
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Daily.jpg Size: 204 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: Untitled.jpg Size: 220 KB
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 Advanced MTF RSI.mq4   11 KB | 344 downloads
File Type: ex4 Advanced MTF RSI.ex4   35 KB | 355 downloads
Remember, the market never lies. It is only we who lie to ourselves.
  • #7,195
  • Jan 16, 2022 12:08pm Jan 16, 2022 12:08pm
Quoting stiffdogg06
After banging my head against the wall and researching all weekend about what I could do that didn't change the method in regards to confirming with the higher TF. I've decided to stop switching TF's and just add the higher TF RSI to my trading chart (i.e. On my 4HR, I have the Daily RSI. On my Daily TF, I have the Weekly RSI.) RH stated he WILL NOT trade against the RSI on the higher TF, so I figured I'd see how this works. Now, this may not work for you, but when I look at the higher TF and see only a few indicators pointing in the direction of...
That's an interesting way to see the RSI from the higher time frames. Well done!

I did it a little bit differently, because after so long of watching the charts be a certain size, I didn't want to change them.

Here's how I did it so you can see the indicator, BUT it not be too distracting from we are used to looking at...

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: MTF RSI Added.PNG Size: 92 KB
Always a Student, Never a Master - Emulate What Works
  • #7,196
  • Jan 16, 2022 1:27pm Jan 16, 2022 1:27pm
Quoting stiffdogg06
After banging my head against the wall and researching all weekend about what I could do that didn't change the method in regards to confirming with the higher TF. I've decided to stop switching TF's and just add the higher TF RSI to my trading chart (i.e. On my 4HR, I have the Daily RSI. On my Daily TF, I have the Weekly RSI.) RH stated he WILL NOT trade against the RSI on the higher TF, so I figured I'd see how this works. Now, this may not work for you, but when I look at the higher TF and see only a few indicators pointing in the direction of...
I did exactly the same for a period, higher TF RSI overlaid on my normal indicators to confirm direction. I found it worked well and gave me clearer signals, i have a similar issue to yourself, getting cold feet when everything on HTF didn't match my direction.

I'm currently playing with moving averages for my direction confirmation but may well revert back to the HTF RSI as it was nice and clear to work with.

Paul.
  • #7,197
  • Jan 16, 2022 4:27pm Jan 16, 2022 4:27pm
Quoting UkSmurfy
{quote} I did exactly the same for a period, higher TF RSI overlaid on my normal indicators to confirm direction. I found it worked well and gave me clearer signals, i have a similar issue to yourself, getting cold feet when everything on HTF didn't match my direction. I'm currently playing with moving averages for my direction confirmation but may well revert back to the HTF RSI as it was nice and clear to work with. Paul.
Yeah, I tried multiple 200, 50, 20, 144 EMA's, SMA's, MTF MA's. I didn't like them, so I thought of a different way that was better suited for my eyes.
Remember, the market never lies. It is only we who lie to ourselves.
  • #7,198
  • Jan 17, 2022 2:53am Jan 17, 2022 2:53am
Interesting discussion on using HTFs. It's also interesting that as time goes on, most of these FF threads show traders trying to improve things by adding this or that. I prefer going as simple as possible, hence using Big E's system at its simplest.

So here's a question - would you buy this?
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: GBPJPY H4.png Size: 23 KB
  • #7,199
  • Jan 17, 2022 2:58am Jan 17, 2022 2:58am
Quoting Spudfan
Interesting discussion on using HTFs. It's also interesting that as time goes on, most of these FF threads show traders trying to improve things by adding this or that. I prefer going as simple as possible, hence using Big E's system at its simplest. So here's a question - would you buy this? {image}
To answer my question, I like to look at the bigger picture, also in its simplest form. Trusting my eyes as the best indicator.

Would you buy this pair?

I posted three charts here, all using plain candles. First H4, then D1, then the monthly.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: GBPJPY H4 2.png Size: 16 KB
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: GBPJPY D1.png Size: 19 KB
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: GBPJPY MN1.png Size: 17 KB
  • #7,200
  • Edited 10:46am Jan 17, 2022 7:01am | Edited 10:46am
Quoting Spudfan
{quote} To answer my question, I like to look at the bigger picture, also in its simplest form. Trusting my eyes as the best indicator. Would you buy this pair? I posted three charts here, all using plain candles. First H4, then D1, then the monthly. {image}{image}{image}
I find it rather perplexing that you would say this (and post the charts above) considering that you've posted lots of charts ALL with numerous indicators that look similar to this chart (below) that you posted in this thread (below)... AND all within the past 30 days and as recently as 3 or 4 days ago. Then, you tell everyone that these things are REQUIRED to trade.

Guppy's Multi-Moving Average (GMMA) | Page 9 | Forex Factory

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: NZDCAD H4 pinch example.png Size: 49 KB
Always a Student, Never a Master - Emulate What Works
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