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Price action at the core = family members' discussion project

  • #1,881
  • Mar 9, 2021 11:23pm Mar 9, 2021 11:23pm
And afterwards ......


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  • #1,882
  • Edited 1:23am Mar 22, 2021 1:12am | Edited 1:23am
Hi,
I have followed threads related to George from the main thread to the Real or Algo. I appreciated the knowledge that everyone shared which is invaluable. Especially George, the truth he shared has opened a new perspective of the market for me. There are many things that need to be studied and research deeply to be able to understand clearly. But with time, I’m sure that I will get there.
Pardon me for posting here since I cannot post in the real or algo thread. Unfortunately, the thread seems to be closed soon. Thank you again for George, moodybot, bluesteele, rickm, and others.

Best regards,
Build
  • #1,883
  • Apr 8, 2021 7:15am Apr 8, 2021 7:15am
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  • #1,884
  • Apr 17, 2021 5:33am Apr 17, 2021 5:33am
Quoting simnz
{quote} By sharing and teaching, I have improved my trading tremendously. By doing so and not seeking any attention, I use my boredom to improve my trading by sharing experts contents. I am still a student and I do share my notes and observations without any intention of proving anybody right or wrong. My entire focus is on practice. All my posts are devoted to experiential learning . You have acquired a lot of expertise relating to trading by volume. I would love to learn from you because you are good at explaining it too.
Have you all forgotten about your trading by volume technique?
I am still waiting to learn from you.
Practice makes a person perfect
  • #1,885
  • Apr 17, 2021 7:29am Apr 17, 2021 7:29am
Quoting simnz
{quote} Have you all forgotten about your trading by volume technique? I am still waiting to learn from you.
To understand how to trade efficiently with any Volume strategy, you need to know who's at war.

If volume is currently being used by a banker to control market speed and direction, who do they fear?
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #1,886
  • Apr 17, 2021 8:18am Apr 17, 2021 8:18am
Quoting RickM
{quote} To understand how to trade efficiently with any Volume strategy, you need to know who's at war. If volume is currently being used by a banker to control market speed and direction, who do they fear?
How can we find out who is controlling the volume?
Practice makes a person perfect
  • #1,887
  • Edited 5:03pm Apr 17, 2021 2:51pm | Edited 5:03pm
Quoting simnz
{quote} How can we find out who is controlling the volume?
We only see numbers, we then need a strategy to be able to interpret what that data means.
But when we see a large 1000 lot contract being executed, someone with big money has made a decision.
My decision is based on who is winning the war.

Who actually is the big player fighting?
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #1,888
  • Apr 17, 2021 9:02pm Apr 17, 2021 9:02pm
Quoting RickM
{quote} We only see numbers, we then need a strategy to be able to interpret what that data means. But when we see a large 1000 lot contract being executed, someone with big money has made a decision. My decision is based on who is winning the war. Who actually is the big player fighting?
I read somewhere that OTC Fx and options volume data is not consolidated at a known central point. It is done but for the eyes of the big boys with the central data collector masquerading as some sort of an institution, as per US practice of having cartels.

How about CFD data for assets other than currencies?

CFD is a derivative of futures and gives a lot of leeways to manipulate it through B books.
Not only Liquidity Providers (big boys) or Broker-cum-market makers can manipulate the prices.
But volume data may be coming from a consolidator of volume set up by Liquidity Providers.
Or is the data from futures volume?
Do you have any idea about it?
Market Makers like CMC Markets and IG, both PLCs, make huge profits as is reflected in their balance sheets.
Both don't need Liquidity Providers.
Practice makes a person perfect
  • #1,889
  • Edited 2:25am Apr 18, 2021 2:03am | Edited 2:25am
Quoting simnz
{quote} I read somewhere that OTC Fx and options volume data is not consolidated at a known central point. It is done but for the eyes of the big boys with the central data collector masquerading as some sort of an institution, as per US practice of having cartels. How about CFD data for assets other than currencies? CFD is a derivative of futures and gives a lot of leeways to manipulate it through B books. Not only Liquidity Providers (big boys) or Broker-cum-market makers can manipulate the prices. But volume data may be coming from a consolidator...
Futures data is the way to go - it moves in sync with CFD currency's

However, we need to be able to see inside a candle to know whether there is an imbalance of Bids or Sells and whether a block from a big player is causing absorption.
Normal volume while good, most times offers little clues to what's about to happen.

Here is a few Gold candles on a bearish move.
Chart 1 - Offers us nothing really because price could keep on dropping bearish - No signal.
Chart 2 - Hang on a second, we can see an Bid imbalance (yellow numbers) as price runs into a block from a big player creating some absorption signals -

BUY

Its all about Volume of the Bids & Asks, not just Volume of a raw candle without content.
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Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #1,890
  • Apr 18, 2021 11:18am Apr 18, 2021 11:18am
Quoting RickM
{quote} Futures data is the way to go - it moves in sync with CFD currency's However, we need to be able to see inside a candle to know whether there is an imbalance of Bids or Sells and whether a block from a big player is causing absorption. Normal volume while good, most times offers little clues to what's about to happen. Here is a few Gold candles on a bearish move. Chart 1 - Offers us nothing really because price could keep on dropping bearish - No signal. Chart 2 - Hang on a second, we can see an Bid imbalance (yellow numbers) as price runs...
Which indicator is this? Commercial?
Practice makes a person perfect
  • #1,891
  • Apr 18, 2021 12:22pm Apr 18, 2021 12:22pm
Quoting simnz
{quote} Which indicator is this? Commercial?
obviously yes
he mentioned it several times before
  • #1,892
  • Apr 18, 2021 2:07pm Apr 18, 2021 2:07pm
Quoting simnz
{quote} Which indicator is this? Commercial?
The only real tools that offers a trader a edge are the ones that offer the ability to be able to see the breakdown of liquidity.
We can't see that in currency markets but some markets work in sync like the future's markets which does allow us to see the complete picture.
The footprint indicator can show us what's happening at this moment, the DOM can show us show where the big players are stacking their orders.

But you still need a strategy to deal with this overload of data.
First you must ask yourself two questions.

Who's at war with the big players?
Why is liquidity so thin?
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #1,893
  • Apr 18, 2021 6:07pm Apr 18, 2021 6:07pm
I, personally, have traded with and without external data for years. With both strategic approaches, it's not about how well someone does WITH the data, what's important is to understand what trading is like without it. It's not about the profits and statistics, it's about how the person compresses their learning to 'trade like the big boys' but without the necessity for artificial confidence. I understand what RickM is saying. You're watching a card game and you see the way they're involving their hands. But most people come at trading from a 'victim mindset' because ... "XYZ" reason. It is implied that the trading game is weighted to one side, however, this is a belief. And the belief turns into a view that justifies the "plan" someone tries to implement.

The natural cautionary tale here is to understand it is NOT your game you are playing, it is someone else's. So "their rules" are not yours. For eg - If you look at what part of the year you are in, this tells you what the big players are seeking. Every player has a plan and a deadline for that plan. Most people assume that other participants are just a trader with a personal goals plan. "We" the people always look at it through the view of "making money", but these players already have money, so they don't do it for that reason. One needs to think like something that is nothing like you. Eg - Paired Deltas from a country's GDP and the bonds OF that country tell a good story of what I have just mentioned. So technically, you don't "need" external data that is of a paid basis. You just need common sense that is of a financial world style of thinking - this is what most 'normal' people do not have. They want to do "this" and "this" and then try and make money. RickM has found a way for himself to work with the data he obtains. Good. But as I have said before, if you look TOO close at the game you THINK is being played, you get too attached to HOW you think you are doing what you're doing. And since it is not your game, you have little control of anything but your end of the process. One needs to commence thinking in terms of VALUE not in terms of daily profit %'s alone. Trading is a WORLD not just a way to siphon money out of the world economy.

Peter

PS - A Value trader will always outlast a data trader because to be a value trader one must generate primary data via real world + implied data. The big players do it for results not money. I have learned this NOT from a book, website or any other source, but over many many years of trading and observing. So as I have spoken about many times, a trader needs to layer their trading or they will find they have painted themself into a corner.
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #1,894
  • Apr 18, 2021 6:50pm Apr 18, 2021 6:50pm
Quoting PeterCaleb
I, personally, have traded with and without external data for years. With both strategic approaches, it's not about how well someone does WITH the data, what's important is to understand what trading is like without it. It's not about the profits and statistics, it's about how the person compresses their learning to 'trade like the big boys' but without the necessity for artificial confidence. I understand what RickM is saying. You're watching a card game and you see the way they're involving their hands. But most people come at trading from a 'victim...
Peter

I am a day trader that needs to earn a certain amount of funds every single day. I have no time for value concepts.

Live market data offers me a chance to have clarity and vision, to see what cards big players are playing.
I can see the massive size limit orders being placed on the market by big players to prevent price from continuing bullish or bearish. They will sit their absorbing all orders till price is expelled.
They will attempt to ensure their orders density is always greater than the aggressive market orders that are attack them.

Other times, they will attract price up to these large orders then remove them before they can be touched.
Either way, we can see them play their cards and be rewarded very quickly.

Is it easy, hell no.

But I need no preparation or forward planning before I start trading for the day. It’s candle data by candle data without any concern to current trading conditions. They can be established as I trade.

Edit- A strong cup of coffee is essential for my trading day which lasts for around 4 hours as I expect to take 60-90 trades if I am reading the market with a E.

Peter you should for just one day feel the market pulsing as the Bids or Asks are attacked relentlessly from aggressive market orders, before being eliminated from the market.

In that brief moment in time, it’s astonishing.
Life is good.
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #1,895
  • Apr 18, 2021 6:51pm Apr 18, 2021 6:51pm
Quoting PeterCaleb
I, personally, have traded with and without external data for years. With both strategic approaches, it's not about how well someone does WITH the data, what's important is to understand what trading is like without it. It's not about the profits and statistics, it's about how the person compresses their learning to 'trade like the big boys' but without the necessity for artificial confidence. I understand what RickM is saying. You're watching a card game and you see the way they're involving their hands. But most people come at trading from a 'victim...
RickM has provided a method to read the other people's cards.
As you said, as long as you play other people's games with no pressure, you are in a better position to play the game.
Day traders depend on data.
I am not clear as to who is a value trader?
Can a day trader be a value trader?
Practice makes a person perfect
  • #1,896
  • Apr 18, 2021 7:01pm Apr 18, 2021 7:01pm
Quoting RickM
{quote} Peter I am a day trader that needs to earn a certain amount of funds every single day. I have no time for value concepts. Live market data offers me a chance to have clarity and vision, to see what cards big players are playing. I can see the massive size limit orders being placed on the market by big players to prevent price from continuing bullish or bearish. They will sit their absorbing all orders till price is expelled. They will attempt to ensure their orders density is always greater than the aggressive market orders that are attack...
Spoofing is so commonly being resorted to as you can notice it particularly during index trading.
Big boys do it brazenly and openly and yet they can get away with it.
Yet, if small guys try to match their wits, they are given a warning.
A UK judge could see this anomaly and so took a lenient attitude towards the small guy .
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51286623
Practice makes a person perfect
  • #1,897
  • Apr 18, 2021 7:29pm Apr 18, 2021 7:29pm
Quoting simnz
{quote} Spoofing is so commonly being resorted to as you can notice it particularly during index trading. Big boys do it brazenly and openly and yet they can get away with it. Yet, if small guys try to match their wits, they are given a warning. A UK judge could see this anomaly and so took a lenient attitude towards the small guy . https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51286623
Yes, that’s is what we are up against.

My focus would be trading with what’s just occurred seconds ago on a footprint chart but keep a eye on their orders ahead on the DOM.

Still, I am just talking about tools that may or may not offer a trading edge to other traders, they work fantastically for me.

George used different tools to achieve his good trading results but as much as I tried a year ago, he wouldn’t listen to me in a voice conversation about an alternative approach to trading his exhaustion setups. I feel his strategy missed the important concepts only volume could bring too the table.

Each to their own.
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #1,898
  • Apr 18, 2021 11:43pm Apr 18, 2021 11:43pm
For me, volume and Tick data are the cherry on top, although can be used to determine many things. I'm not trying to change anyone's minds. Just saying - if your game is too much their game, then there is a shelf life to what is being done on your side of the equation.


Peter
Real Trading is not gambling.
  • #1,899
  • Apr 23, 2021 12:57pm Apr 23, 2021 12:57pm
Quoting PeterCaleb
For me, volume and Tick data are the cherry on top, although can be used to determine many things. I'm not trying to change anyone's minds. Just saying - if your game is too much their game, then there is a shelf life to what is being done on your side of the equation. Peter
And someone said you gonna paste
  • #1,900
  • Apr 26, 2021 2:11am Apr 26, 2021 2:11am
momentum on М15 -1H plus rebound from Fibonacci 127 .. everything is simple when the price is in a range
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