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Real or Algo

  • #1,341
  • Mar 16, 2021 12:26pm Mar 16, 2021 12:26pm
Quoting bilal1947
Tools to know where are more orders: Open interest, seasonality, Cot analysis i have forecasted it on 10th March {image} and today it happened like this https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...2#post13454552
I remember that call just when it was going up.
  • #1,342
  • Mar 16, 2021 12:27pm Mar 16, 2021 12:27pm
Quoting almo
{quote} I could be very wrong with my interpretation of what Bwilliam was trying to say....so take this with a grain of salt
This is my point - there is nothing BW brings to the table.

If you have something to add, then go ahead .
No and I don't wnat to go back to your posts - usual coward's answer.

If you have nothing to add, the say that also. At least we will know where we stand with all this rambling.

Edit: There must be a language problem. Insanity is when you do the same thing over & over and expect a different result.
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #1,343
  • Edited 1:15pm Mar 16, 2021 12:45pm | Edited 1:15pm
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} Ok You trade EU. Can you and did you call EU fall(almost 70pips) TODAY, RIGHT NOW? A simple yes or no.
can i try BWilliam?

As a "George student" i clearly saw the herd mentality resistence on those tops, green line in the image

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So i was expecting a break, and that the price reached a previous swing above, the orange box, before falling down (opposite if it took out the lows first)
But it stopped a little bit below.
The target idea blocked me to see the reality of this action?
Looks like, cause i was expecting the price to take away at least one of those 2 swings.

Am i close to it?
Or some of these concepts taken from George are preventing me from seeing something else?....
From my point of view here the herd area worked, but the idea of the target, seen like in George's idea, failed (not completely in any case, cause price was very close to those swings); but the idea of the target like you previously said worked ("The difference between algo level and targets or SR or SD is it reflects the "fair" valuation of the asset. Excursions at targets is the deviation from this value).

In any case i wouldn't have known for how many pips it would have dropped, but the 3 little orange boxes were my targets, a coming back to the fair valuation of the asset.

So in the case of this price action for me the edge was below-above the herd area,
but i guess its not what you want to say, since this kind of price action is only 1 pattern, and its not always there
  • #1,344
  • Mar 16, 2021 12:55pm Mar 16, 2021 12:55pm
This is a fun discussion. I'm a little fuzzy as to the point, but someone mentioned the E$, which I traded early this morning (along with the EA). I had exited my G$ short trades last night/really early this morning when they hit my target at 1.3838. You gotta have targets, and the only way to get targets is with TA. TA does not work. You make it work. If you can't make it work, you have failed, or more likely, given up way too soon.

Anyway, on the the E$. My single trade on the E$, exactly from my trading notes, is this: "E$ down -- MS down, N down, TA down. Entry sell @ 1.1934, targets 1.1900, 1.1889, 1.1857, 1.1846." So, in my trading world the target was not that bounce point at 1.1882, but I used my targets to take profits and reposition for the next entry. The lower targets are still available and I am seeking them out, and as soon as an entry presents itself, I'll have them. The bankers will not draw a straight line to targets, so the path to targets is marked by stops, pauses, retracements, and continuations. But, just because the targets where not hit today, does not make them wrong. As long as they are on the bankers charts, they are still targets.

So, I don't get the discussion about edge. There is not edge present in the charts. The edge is you and how you use the charts. And most importantly, trade to targets, use your head (your edge) and stick with your plan until PA, TA, or structure say otherwise. The is not rocket science. It's much harder that rocket science.
  • #1,345
  • Mar 16, 2021 1:02pm Mar 16, 2021 1:02pm
Quoting GEfx
The edge is you and how you use the charts.
The Edge is You and how you use the charts.

- ABSOLUTELY NAILED IT
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #1,346
  • Mar 16, 2021 1:07pm Mar 16, 2021 1:07pm
Quoting almo
{quote} Shabs, give him a chance to respond please. I feel like we are about to make some serious progress and potentially a final answer to "Real or Algo"
Not going to happen anytime soon.................1,345 posts later we are no closer to a breakthrough.

Plenty of others have shown their proof though.
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #1,347
  • Mar 16, 2021 1:09pm Mar 16, 2021 1:09pm
Quoting GEfx
stick with your plan
Observer effect
  • #1,348
  • Mar 16, 2021 1:45pm Mar 16, 2021 1:45pm
Quoting Shabs19
{quote} Not going to happen anytime soon.................1,345 posts later we are no closer to a breakthrough. Plenty of others have shown their proof though.

Your right on that - he said it was bedtime when he signed off, so .....maybe a response 8 hrs from now?


Truth be told - I don't expect to hear anything else on this topic. Unfortunately that also means no final answer re: Real or Algo. There is some hope yet - Moodybot was mentioning something about enlightenment. Hopefully he may have something to say.
  • #1,349
  • Mar 16, 2021 3:12pm Mar 16, 2021 3:12pm
Quoting TimeTells
{quote} Yes, Paul has contacted me with a quote on the FTMO thread. So I replied to Paul using a quote from Moody, so that Moody would see my post. All should be okay soon enough.
Hi Pete

Yep, I blocked him, first one on this thread which I didn't want to do, apart from BW and that doesn't count!
He has zero boots on the ground time in this thread and I didn't like his attitude to you.
Whether he supports Real or Algo you know I couldn't careless, each to their own and I welcome their experience/expertise even if I disagree which as you know I mostly do.

As Kevin pointed out to me in a Pm regards the Algo, once you know you know, trying to explain it is near impossible and I would say after 10,000 + hrs screen time we stop looking at the charts and look straight through them at who/what is sending that data down to our terminal. Who is the faceless entity presenting that data, why has the data moved in that way, why has that top not been taken out, why did they stop exactly on a low, why did they visit an area creating a triple top...why why why!.

Several thousand threads on various forums and very few, if any, can bring success from TA alone.
There isn't one thread a newbie can head to and profit from the start, and remain profitable, not one.

But there is something else and that's the psychological aspect to trading and that can only be learned with screen time, no other way to do it.
The market absolutely sets traps for traders, continuously on all time frames and all charts, we both look for the areas that other traders would be drawn into, and that is really the secret. Identify the trap and trade accordingly.
Look through the screen and picture that dude/entity trying to catch you out with a juicy breakout that as we know looks to nail pending orders, close out those on the wrong side, retrace closing the pending orders, new direction orders opened, reverse back into original breakout direction. Oh, we had the direction right all along... yep, but the trader lost pending order, opened opposite direction orders twice and price did head back into original analysis direction. Complete head f*^k.
And all from money been pumped and dumped by the institutions, with all time frames doing the same moves....real...my arse!

Once people start thinking and stop being led around then the chart opens up a whole new pathway.

If you want Paul reinstated to post, let me know and I'll unblock.

Andy
  • #1,350
  • Mar 16, 2021 3:13pm Mar 16, 2021 3:13pm
Quoting almo
{quote} Your right on that - he said it was bedtime when he signed off, so .....maybe a response 8 hrs from now? Truth be told - I don't expect to hear anything else on this topic. Unfortunately that also means no final answer re: Real or Algo. There is some hope yet - Moodybot was mentioning something about enlightenment. Hopefully he may have something to say.
Enlightenment was in response to Paul's post regards Pete which I didn't like.
  • #1,351
  • Mar 16, 2021 4:06pm Mar 16, 2021 4:06pm
Thanks Pete.

Paul unblocked.
  • #1,352
  • Mar 16, 2021 4:06pm Mar 16, 2021 4:06pm
Quoting moodybot
{quote}
Enlightenment was in response to Paul's post regards Pete which I didn't like.

Cheers Andy. Mate I live by Ruiz's 2nd agreement. My follow up post to Paul (not my first lol) was done under that Ruiz umbrella .


I'd like to see what Paul will bring to your thread.

Another view, the same view. Extra clarity. And ryuryu's chart template I see this morning (showing TA I reckon, at last, I can see can be successfully used by ryuryu) has me understanding there is no one way, just our own way.

It's all charts. I love seeing them all.

And every one I've seen here, fits snugly inside George's original target view imo (not his tma view, that was only ever 2% and he said that, and is why I agree with BW that 'sometimes' TA, well tma lol, is an illusion that does not serve a trader well).


Everyone calls what they do 'something'. Those that 'see' what they do can repeat it daily.

Ok Paul, good luck.
  • #1,353
  • Mar 16, 2021 4:06pm Mar 16, 2021 4:06pm
Quoting moodybot
Several thousand threads on various forums and very few, if any, can bring success from TA alone. There isn't one thread a newbie can head to and profit from the start, and remain profitable, not one.
First off I want to thank everyone who participated in the discussion above. I read through every post.

Andy's comment here is spot on.

I wrote it simply as TA and FA is useless garbage.

We both mean the same thing.

Imv if there's going to be any progress in the discussion the topic should be on the efficacy of TA and FA. And not whether the price painted on our chart is real or algo.

However, going by the response by the TA and FA crowd it's best not to carry on with this discussion. Perhaps it make sense if this discussion is carried out in smaller groups with like minded individuals who seek real answers. Imv this is not possible with a thread discussion on FF. It will simply degenerate into arguments, name-calling, personal attacks the usual drama that defeat the purpose of discussion.

I have written everything possible on this thread. There's no possibility to go any further.

I can only tell you that, in my case, I made this difficult decision to discard completely TA and FA that's written in that thousands of threads on this forum. In short, previously I was exactly like you. I would have written the same post you wrote.

This discussion made me realise I should not have written all those things that I wrote on this thread and George threads. After reading the response on here I realise my mistake today, that's 2 years too late. I should not meddle in things that is none of my business. However, nothing is too late. I can do the next correct thing. Stop writing about this anymore. Full stop.

Cheers
BW
Know what you trade
  • #1,354
  • Mar 16, 2021 4:07pm Mar 16, 2021 4:07pm
Oh, done already, you are a champ Andy, cheers


And, imo, BW a champ also from that latest post.


It's Forex folks, we talk, we post, we get nowhere, AND we get somewhere. Trade well, trade safe
  • #1,355
  • Mar 16, 2021 4:13pm Mar 16, 2021 4:13pm
No one really gets what I post with the target posts, I can tell . I read and smile, this place has fun.

Algo or Real. Just do it, & see it, your own way imo.


.
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  • #1,356
  • Edited 4:43pm Mar 16, 2021 4:16pm | Edited 4:43pm
Forex Big Interbank Networks: Electronic Brokering Services (EBS) and Reuters Dealing 3000-Spot Matching

https://www.wikizero.com/en/Electronic_Broking_Services

Small Interbank Networks : Currenex, HotspotFx, Integral, FxAll have bought LavaFX (part of Citibank), etc. there are more.

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Not to forget Medium & Small sized Banks coming into the picture. These are working with many algos to provide smooth data which in turn passes down to the Retail Market Makers, Retail ECN's, Institutional Speculators & Hedgers.

We (Retail Traders) are below all the above in the Food Chain. No wonder we get slaughtered. They are all in the business of forex transactions, the market is decentralised, not run by one person, one bank, one institution, one single algo, but only to us at the bottom of the food chain, it will definitely seem so.

Any wonder why the vast majority of retail, small banks & institutions get screwed over ? Reatil make up a very small portion of this business, we do not have any influence or importance to the big boys. We only exist in our brokers books and whatever they feed us with us, we trade with.
But with all the inter-connections electronically we maybe only milliseconds behind the actual market price, so it seems like a single feed.
It is an aggregated feed, price matching so fast, it would go unnotoced.

Do you really think retail traders with 0.1 lots are worth going after and tricking them into false Supply & demand, fake-outs , etc. makes a blind bit of difference to their profit margin ?
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #1,357
  • Mar 16, 2021 4:38pm Mar 16, 2021 4:38pm
Quoting moodybot
{quote} Hi Pete Yep, I blocked him, first one on this thread which I didn't want to do, apart from BW and that doesn't count! He has zero boots on the ground time in this thread and I didn't like his attitude to you. Whether he supports Real or Algo you know I couldn't careless, each to their own and I welcome their experience/expertise even if I disagree which as you know I mostly do. As Kevin pointed out to me in a Pm regards the Algo, once you know you know, trying to explain it is near impossible and I would say after 10,000 + hrs screen time...
Hi Andy,

First of all Merry Xmas everyone!

On a serious note, I think the majority of those reading this thread already have a very clear opinion and there are small chances to switch from one side to another.

I believe that there is an algo governing the markets and this algo is in fact the tool used by the big players in order to control the price. Before they used coffee shops, later they used bloomberg chat rooms, I bet that today they communicate somewhere in clouds. They got caught before, they will get caught now, it is just a matter of time.

I read with interest and an open mind the vast majority of posts, many of them written by experienced traders. Still, i am convinced that there is an algo.

For instance, if we look at eurcad today, we see a heavy drop of 100 pips in 4 hours, without retracement basically. And then, suddenly, the price stopped and stayed for 6,7 hours in a range of 12 pips. It was like you drive with 300km/h, push the brake and instantly you are at 2km/h. No inertial move, nothing. So how is this possible? Who is buying and who is selling in that 12 pips range. And why the range holds? This is not the retail, come on. This are the big boys keeping the price in there.

But for this they need to cooperate, right? That's the algo in my opinion.

Cheers,
B
On ignore list of scammers, deceivers and low IQ individuals. Exclusively
  • #1,358
  • Mar 16, 2021 4:49pm Mar 16, 2021 4:49pm
Quoting TimeTells
No one really gets what I post with the target posts, I can tell . I read and smile, this place has fun. Algo or Real. Just do it, & see it, your own way imo. . {image}
That’s random mate!
  • #1,359
  • Mar 16, 2021 4:55pm Mar 16, 2021 4:55pm
Quoting Shabs19
Do you really think retail traders with 0.1 lots are worth going after and tricking them into false Supply & demand, fake-outs , etc. makes a blind bit of difference to their profit margin ?
I have written in my earlier post this exact same thing. I agree with Shabs 100%.

I understand why Shabs think there's contradiction in my writing. Fact is I have not written about my philosophical understanding of this market. And I'm not about to do that. Do understand that I have a financial education background. Imv your personal background play a large role that determine your market philosophy. In this we are all different.

Cheers
BW
Know what you trade
  • #1,360
  • Mar 16, 2021 5:09pm Mar 16, 2021 5:09pm
Quoting GEfx
You gotta have targets, and the only way to get targets is with TA.


Yes, and no lol, imho.

But this circular stuff. Or statement & reply is not helping readers I guess.

Again, maybe it is the definition of TA , or how we each interpret its meaning, that is the real issue.

Targets are much clearer than what I call TA anyway.

Who knows lol, trade on I say.
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