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Real or Algo

  • #821
  • Mar 3, 2021 3:25am Mar 3, 2021 3:25am
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} I have written earlier if traders scalp with supposed level2 orderflow why pay for ambiguous proprietary data trade forex instead of join the thousands of futures traders ? The answer for this question is ...
Hi BWilliams

Because forex pairs on the order book move in a narrow and well defined channel - Futures markets has less structure and its liquidity is just terrible.
But here is the little secret but please don't share it with anyone.

Prices on Futures exchange mirror currency markers within 5 seconds and we know the size of the orders there to the unit.
Lets keep it out secret
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #822
  • Mar 3, 2021 3:29am Mar 3, 2021 3:29am
Quoting RickM
Hi BWilliams Because forex pairs on the order book move in a narrow and well defined channel - Futures markets has less structure and its liquidity is just terrible. But here is the little secret but please don't share it with anyone. Prices on Futures exchange mirror currency markers within 5 seconds and we know the size of the orders there to the unit. Lets keep it out secret
There's no need for magic paid proprietary volume data or read the tape magic, just learn the market structure when and where market is rising or falling.
Same looking chart every trading day.

Where does the edge sit on the chart ?
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: gu1.png Size: 13 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: gu2.png Size: 21 KB
Know what you trade
  • #823
  • Mar 3, 2021 4:21am Mar 3, 2021 4:21am
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} There's no need for magic paid proprietary volume data or read the tape magic, just learn the market structure when and where market is rising or falling. Same looking chart every trading day. Where does the edge sit on the chart ? {image} {image}
BWilliams

There is no need for candles either, nor is there a need for price on a chart.
Just trade what you believe in and don't betray yourself by listening to other traders.

If I have to pay for proprietary volume data, its because it offers me an edge. I can see exhaustion occur even before the candle has closed.

Lastly, look at EURUSD, all the money has switched from GU to EU in the last week - crazy volumes on EURUSD
P.S. Nice trade BW
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #824
  • Mar 3, 2021 4:34am Mar 3, 2021 4:34am
BWilliams

Remember two years ago (when you had a different Alias) we talked about the Algo hiding its moves within candles but the line chart actually shows us its intention -

GBPUSD could be a Buy soon
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: GU algo.jpg Size: 221 KB
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #825
  • Mar 3, 2021 4:36am Mar 3, 2021 4:36am
Quoting RickM
Just trade what you believe in and don't betray yourself by listening to other traders.
I agree with this.

Do the hard work research where and when the edge sit on the chart. We only trust empirical evidence that we personally collated. Nobody can hand this to another trader. We can never trust our peoples work. Trust and confidence can only come from ourselves.
Know what you trade
  • #826
  • Mar 3, 2021 6:48am Mar 3, 2021 6:48am
Here is how I see the Algo trade and how the bankers stopped the move.

1.. The Algo pushed up price at the arrow on almost no volume. There is no way it should have gone up
2.. The bankers pulled all volume away from the chart at that first box. They over-ruled the algo.
3.. The Bankers sold hard with large volume keeping the Algo out of the picture.
4.. The Bankers closed out at the bottom leaving the Algo to gain control

Bankers Volume over rules the Algo - that is just the way it is.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: gu iiiiii.jpg Size: 264 KB
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #827
  • Mar 3, 2021 7:22am Mar 3, 2021 7:22am
RickM, or it's just bankers communicating with each other. The PA is a classic pole formation, which is a continuation formation. Then, a pullback to the midpoint of the last leg, and a push back to the bottom. I traded this on the break of the grey box, entered a second position on the .5 retrace, with a target of the bottom. Still watching it for the next move. I wasn't thinking about volume or an algo, just bankers doing what they do, how they do it.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: g$.gif Size: 44 KB
  • #828
  • Mar 3, 2021 7:35am Mar 3, 2021 7:35am
Practise 10,000 times the same thing until it becomes habit. Same thing. That's the secret to trade with an edge.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: gu1.png Size: 13 KB
Know what you trade
  • #829
  • Mar 3, 2021 7:51am Mar 3, 2021 7:51am
Quoting BWilliam
Practise 10,000 times the same thing until it becomes habit. Same thing. That's the secret to trade with an edge. {image}
Exactly. We've all seen this happen a million time. Nothing new is happening right now from what I saw on charts 15 years ago. But seeing things develop, experience developing strategies and contingencies, etc takes time and practice.

I've been focused on the G$ and GA since last week, applying what I've practiced to both pairs. Looking for selling opportunities on the G$ and been buying the GA for an hour now. My focus is on the charts for the G$ and the A$, which follows to the GA. It's the bankers conversations on the G$ and the A$ that lets me read opportunities on the GA. I've largely ignored everything else.
  • #830
  • Mar 3, 2021 9:02am Mar 3, 2021 9:02am
Quoting RickM
Here is how I see the Algo trade and how the bankers stopped the move. 1.. The Algo pushed up price at the arrow on almost no volume. There is no way it should have gone up 2.. The bankers pulled all volume away from the chart at that first box. They over-ruled the algo. 3.. The Bankers sold hard with large volume keeping the Algo out of the picture. 4.. The Bankers closed out at the bottom leaving the Algo to gain control Bankers Volume over rules the Algo - that is just the way it is. {image}
So, this all-powerful algo CAN be challenged by those with the biggest pots of money. Can the bankers over rule the algo at will, or is it just a quick smash n grab? Interesting Rick.

Oh BW....just reveal your alias..u know you want to !
  • #831
  • Edited 10:41am Mar 3, 2021 10:24am | Edited 10:41am
Quoting Danger-Mouse
So, this all-powerful algo CAN be challenged by those with the biggest pots of money. Can the bankers over rule the algo at will, or is it just a quick smash n grab? Interesting Rick.
Nope the banks billions is no match for the algo. Notice I've been buying in the direction of the algo code, getting the protection. Those bank traders who sold into the algo the whole day got smashed as usual. The Algo is after their billions not retail traders peanut scrap. That's why the attrition rate among Bank traders is so high. The algo level is 1.3930 that triggered the algo into action. All done and dusted in 1 hour.
Know what you trade
  • #832
  • Mar 3, 2021 10:37am Mar 3, 2021 10:37am
The notion of the algo persists. I was wondering if the forex algo is, in fact, the precursor of SkyNet, the AI that was featured in the Terminator movie series. It is just a matter of time that the algo turns its attention away from forex to making killer robots. But on a serious note, could someone please tell me how this algo is suppose to work? Who built it? Where does it run in this decentralized forex world? How is it funded (where does it get its money to place trades)? Who funds it? Can you show me the accounting/financial tracks it leaves, such as a statement of operations or a funding statement? Or is the idea of an algo just a mental model that is used to attribute unknown PA?
  • #833
  • Edited 11:13am Mar 3, 2021 10:55am | Edited 11:13am
Quoting RickM
Here is how I see the Algo trade and how the bankers stopped the move. 1.. The Algo pushed up price at the arrow on almost no volume. There is no way it should have gone up 2.. The bankers pulled all volume away from the chart at that first box. They over-ruled the algo. 3.. The Bankers sold hard with large volume keeping the Algo out of the picture. 4.. The Bankers closed out at the bottom leaving the Algo to gain control Bankers Volume over rules the Algo - that is just the way it is. {image}
RickM, check your volume data.... What volume was transacted to drive the price up from day low in 1 hour?

The algo code magically stop not beyond 1.40060.

This number is important for this trading week. Market will either trade above or below it. If I were a swing trader I look to sell the rally tops.
Know what you trade
  • #834
  • Mar 3, 2021 11:04am Mar 3, 2021 11:04am
Quoting GEfx
The notion of the algo persists. I was wondering if the forex algo is, in fact, the precursor of SkyNet, the AI that was featured in the Terminator movie series. It is just a matter of time that the algo turns its attention away from forex to making killer robots. But on a serious note, could someone please tell me how this algo is suppose to work? Who built it? Where does it run in this decentralized forex world? How is it funded (where does it get its money to place trades)? Who funds it? Can you show me the accounting/financial tracks it leaves,...
I too wants to know how the algo is formed. I wonder where the price feeds are obtained from? From central banks??

But without the existence of us humans, the algo serves no function. Hence, it is in my perception that, one human or one organization, is the one that started up these algo - which started up from a simple single idea (i.e stemming from barter trading). And the algo that we see today are the constant printing lines of the price chart that forms the zig-zags on our charts. The forming of printing lines requires a mathematical equation or derivation (i.e in its simplest form or idea , if 1+1 then it will = 2 or y=mx+c ).

However, this is just my nonsense idea. Hoping to learning more from you all!

Cheers
Zyzel
Always Learning. I am no Master
  • #835
  • Mar 3, 2021 11:13am Mar 3, 2021 11:13am
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} Nope the banks billions is no match for the algo. Notice I've been buying in the direction of the algo code, getting the protection. Those bank traders who sold into the algo the whole day got smashed as usual. The Algo is after their billions not retail traders peanut scrap. That's why the attrition rate among Bank traders is so high. The algo level is 1.3930 that triggered the algo into action. All done and dusted in 1 hour.

Ahh,,so the poor wee bank traders with their billions alas are no match for this big powerful algo? The algo writer must be sitting on multiple trillions by now ? I wonder who they could be? Do we wheel out the usual suspects? The Rothschilds ..... The Illuminati ... Top Secret Area 51 Experiment?
You are as mysterious as your aliases LOL
  • #836
  • Mar 3, 2021 11:16am Mar 3, 2021 11:16am
Quoting Zyzel
{quote} And the algo that we see today are the constant printing lines of the price chart that forms the zig-zags on our charts. The forming of printing lines requires a mathematical equation or derivation (i.e in its simplest form or idea , if 1+1 then it will = 2 or y=mx+c ).
OK lets start with this. The candles that we see on our charts represent financial transactions. Someone is buying and someone is selling. The candles are NOT formed by a software program. That is not what is happening, and thinking this is harmful to anyone's trading success.

This is probably a good place to dispel another idea, that retail trades are evident in the charts. They are not. Your retail trades happens in the server of your brokers office, not on the forex. It's important to know where things are happening, along with why. I wanted to clear that up because I suggested in an earlier post that retail traders could flicker a candle. We can not.

Still looking forward to understanding how this algo works. Good trading everyone!
  • #837
  • Mar 3, 2021 11:26am Mar 3, 2021 11:26am
Quoting GEfx
This is probably a good place to dispel another idea, that retail trades are evident in the charts. They are not. Your retail trades happens in the server of your brokers office, not on the forex. It's important to know where things are happening, along with why. I wanted to clear that up because I suggested in an earlier post that retail traders could flicker a candle. We can not.
I was shocked when I read that. Omg!
Know what you trade
  • #838
  • Mar 3, 2021 12:12pm Mar 3, 2021 12:12pm
Quoting GEfx
{quote} OK lets start with this. The candles that we see on our charts represent financial transactions. Someone is buying and someone is selling. The candles are NOT formed by a software program. That is not what is happening, and thinking this is harmful to anyone's trading success. This is probably a good place to dispel another idea, that retail trades are evident in the charts. They are not. Your retail trades happens in the server of your brokers office, not on the forex. It's important to know where things are happening, along with why. I...
Hi GEFx

Very interesting indeed.

So is it wise to take this notion that the banks or the algo are not there to hunt the stop hunts of the retail traders - which I have read in many places in the forum that gives the narrative that the stop hunt is done to provide them with liquidity?

Thanks for your insights, GEFx

Cheers and green pips to you.
Zyzel
Always Learning. I am no Master
  • #839
  • Mar 3, 2021 12:36pm Mar 3, 2021 12:36pm
To gain profits big player needs liquidity and guarantees. Stops are guarantees of liquidity.
Observer effect
  • #840
  • Mar 3, 2021 12:48pm Mar 3, 2021 12:48pm
Quoting Zyzel
{quote} So is it wise to take this notion that the banks or the algo are not there to hunt the stop hunts of the retail traders - which I have read in many places in the forum that gives the narrative that the stop hunt is done to provide them with liquidity?
That is correct. The banks are not thinking about retail stops. They know the prices that will inflict pain/decision making/prompt action by other institutional traders and they will move the market to or beyond those price levels to make their point. But no one is thinking about our trading in the big picture. It just is not happening. However, it is a very handy piece of information to understand where they will push price to prompt a decision, and watch what happen to your trade, or make a trade, when they get there. It's critical to understand: you are not trading with bankers. You are trading alongside the wake they form when they are trading. It's their PA and liquidity not ours. So to put a fine point on it, if your stop is hit, the money does not go into the pocket of a bank. It goes into the pocket of another retail trader or the broker. Period.
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