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The5ers - Trading & Growth Program

  • #221
  • Sep 7, 2020 2:14pm Sep 7, 2020 2:14pm
Quoting LuXing
{quote} Allowed leverage is currently 1:5. European financial supervising authorities are pretty strict and allow a maximum leverage of 1:30. Using only 30% of that, is using 1:10 leverage really unreasonable ? LuXing
Seriously I don't understand what is your motivation to spread misleading nformation. It is clear you haven't been a trader with the 5ers, otherwise you would know all our accounts are set to 100:1, and you would understand what exposure is.

You want to trade high leverage accounts? Are you good at it? Can you make consistent profits witth high leverage trading? If you are. Good for you, you should probably be trading 6 figures account of your own. Right?
We are Forex traders - Come trade with us
  • #222
  • Sep 7, 2020 2:28pm Sep 7, 2020 2:28pm
Quoting tradista
{quote} OK, now I understand why some guys feel really happy to profit 20 bucks on a 10K account...
Easy to mock at things out of context. I can tell you by seeing thousands of traders, 99% of traders that use the maximum exposure allowed, are the ones that blow their accounts in days. Yes we had few that had passed. With one or very few trades. Where they consistent? They had blew the PM account as fast as they had received it.
We are Forex traders - Come trade with us
  • #223
  • Edited 5:10pm Sep 7, 2020 2:56pm | Edited 5:10pm
Quoting The5ersTF
{quote} Easy to mock at things out of context. I can tell you by seeing thousands of traders, 99% of traders that use the maximum exposure allowed, are the ones that blow their accounts in days. Yes we had few that had passed. With one or very few trades. Where they consistent? They had blew the PM account as fast as they had received it.
That's probably because they started to see no significant profit after a few weeks on such low leverage and began looking to scale up more quickly to make up for their investment of money, time and effort. Had they more room, they'd probably be able to sustain their accounts while still motivated to stay on track.

I understand you being extremely cautious with your money as an investor but, for me, such extremely high risk control measures make sense when managing accounts in the six, seven figures - and indeed those are measures that I've seen in my professional circles. but come on... on a 50K account? What is the average monthly withdrawal of your more consistent traders, 200, 500 dollars - not counting the half dozen outliers who might manage to break the 1 or 2K mark from time to time, after a year of ups and downs ? Hardly enough to pay the average rent on any first-world country. So what's the point ? Now, show me a 500K program to start with and I'll be the first to take your side on that risk management approach, because that certainly makes sense, and the reward also makes sense.

Of course, if your goal is to indirectly "teach" people extreme patience and discipline and how to slowly grow their/your account over time (make this several months/years) then, 5ers is the perfect learning experience I would say, they'll be trading like the "pros" that's for sure, wih tiny leverage and tiny risk, but I'm not sure many will stay for the long run, as there's no incentive for many months on end.
Anyway, just wanted to clarify my position. Again, not intending to critize or offend, but you are offering a program to the public so it should be possible to discuss it, right? and one of the main points in my view is to understand if it's worth the the time and the hard work, or not.

That concludes my reasoning on this subject.
  • #224
  • Sep 7, 2020 3:24pm Sep 7, 2020 3:24pm
Quoting The5ersTF
{quote} Seriously I don't understand what is your motivation to spread misleading nformation. It is clear you haven't been a trader with the 5ers, otherwise you would know all our accounts are set to 100:1, and you would understand what exposure is. You want to trade high leverage accounts? Are you good at it? Can you make consistent profits witth high leverage trading? If you are. Good for you, you should probably be trading 6 figures account of your own. Right?
Gil,

There's really no reason to be on the defensive.
Please correct me, but I don't think I am spreading misleading info at all.

A $ 13.000 evaluation account allows "maximum buying power" of 0.65 standard lots, which works out buying or selling 65.000 currency units. Buying (a max of) 65.000 currency units with a bank roll of 13.000 is 1:5 leverage in my book.

Apparently I don't understand what exposure and leverage is.
Leverage of 1:100 would allow a trader to buy 100 times as much as his real bank rol: a $ 13.000 account would allow the trader to buy or sell ($ 13.000 * 100 leverage) = 1.3m units /100.000 units per standard lot = 13 lots.
Ludicrous of course, but that's 1:100 leverage.

It might be true that all of the 5%-ers accounts are set to 1:100 leverage from the broker side, but that's totally irrelevant:
the rules clearly state that the trader can only use 1:5 leverage by capping the maximum open lot size to 0.65.

It's not a question whether I want to trade high leverage accounts and/or whether I am good at it or not.
My broker allows me up to 1:500 leverage and I have shown with screenshots that I occasionally use 1:10.
No point in discussing all that. Bottom line is that future 5%-ers have a 1:5 max leverage rule.
That's not for all traders, that's all.

LuXing
Wisdom begins in wonder
  • #225
  • Edited Sep 8, 2020 12:20am Sep 7, 2020 4:44pm | Edited Sep 8, 2020 12:20am
The maximum lotsize with 100:1 leverage and a 13000 account balance is 13 lots.

The5ers maximum lotsize is 0.65 lots with a 13000 account balance.

The5ers gives 13 / 0.65 = 20 times less leverage than 100:1.

100 / 20 = 5

The5ers leverage = 5:1

LuXing doesn’t spread misleading information.

With a 500 USD account and 500:1 leverage you have almost the same buying power as with the 52000 USD account from The5ers.
Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.
  • #226
  • Sep 7, 2020 9:49pm Sep 7, 2020 9:49pm
Hi Guys,

Are you a consistently profitable trader? Congratulation!

Don't worry about the limit lot size. With $550 (fee) you can trade 0.65 lot (after move SL to BE you can open another 0.65 lot, etc). Just make profit 7% of 13k evaluation account within 6 months, you'll be funded 52k.

Because you are a consistently profitable trader, step by step, you'll be funded $1.280.000 and now you can trade with 64 lots.

So, from $550, you can trade with 64 lots. Is it fair enough?

Think BIG and Grow Rich!
  • #227
  • Sep 7, 2020 10:17pm Sep 7, 2020 10:17pm
Quoting tradista
{quote} Sure, but 1.5% of a 52K account is above 7 lots on a 10 pips stop-loss for EU, so same issue but with bigger account size! {image} Of course, the account must be leveraged to at least 1:50, which I think might be the issue, haven't done the exact math, but I'd say they are using super-low leveraged accounts, below 1:25, that's why you can't really have more than 0.5% exposure at any one time.
In the interest of being fair, because trading is dynamic and there are so many different ways to approach the market. This post kind of proves Gil's point. There will always be someone who wants to push the boundary if he were to increase the exposure.

When I first brought up the 5:1 exposure as the reason I couldn't join 5%ers, for me, even at 0.50% risk per trade, my downside risk didn't really change, but my upside was capped. I found 10:1 margin being the area where, if I'm risking 0.50% risk per trade (I trade 1hr, 4hr, daily) to maintain with the total 4% risk, and moving in my SL to free back up the margin, that at least the max exposure didn't inhibit my upside growth. And I am quite conservative.

Now you are saying the account probably really needs at least 50:1, someone else will say they need 100:1, and I see some people on FTMO saying they think 5% max daily DD is too low(which is a form of limiting exposure since it doesn't compound daily). And next time some other beginner will come along and say "I need 500:1!", haha. It's just the truth. Someone will always want to push the boundary that is set by the firm.

I think people should remember that they also allow trading on a live account, during news AND over the weekend. Holding over the weekend is something we weren't allowed to do when I worked in-house at a previous firm. When you need negative balance protection, that isn't free. It can come with huge deposits to the regulatory body, as deposits for more margin in the event of a weekend black swan. Margin isn't free, someone is covering the money you can't put up. So I can understand why 50:1 wouldn't work while he is allowing someone to potentially have 1.28 million in capital, and they are holding over the weekend. Again, I'm playing a little devils advocate to be fair, cause I still 100% believe 5:1 is way too limiting, but I also can understand why 50:1, while still may seem small to some, may still be a bit much in the overall risk. That's why I asked about having an option with higher max exposure in exchange for removing the ability to hold trades over the weekend.

The only thing we can say, and request to Gil is consider it. We're bartering with him because we all want to work with his firm. So while it may seem annoying to you Gil, in its own way, its a compliment. I'm sure you have a lot more people failing than succeeding and you are trying to stop that. But on the other hand, maybe, just maybe, another reason you are missing out on some good traders is because that exposure is keeping them away.
The best strategy is a profitable one.
  • #228
  • Sep 8, 2020 12:59am Sep 8, 2020 12:59am
Quoting LuXing
{quote} the rules clearly state that the trader can only use 1:5 leverage by capping the maximum open lot size to 0.65. It's not a question whether I want to trade high leverage accounts and/or whether I am good at it or not. My broker allows me up to 1:500 leverage and I have shown with screenshots that I occasionally use 1:10. No point in discussing all that. Bottom line is that future 5%-ers have a 1:5 max leverage rule. That's not for all traders, that's all. LuXing
I think you have been around this discussion already when I clarified what distinguish exposure and leverage.
Let me recap that: Exposure is unrealized trades with risk. With The5ers we encourage rigging risk, so whenever you be trailing your SL beyond breakeven you free the exposure of that trade. This lets you add more positions while holding winning -runners. Practically you can get much higher than 5:1 like that. This is why we set most of the traders with 100:1.

The basic Risk reasoning here, is to be controlled while your trades are at potential risk, once it is no longer a risk at potential, you can add more.
We are Forex traders - Come trade with us
  • #229
  • Sep 8, 2020 1:05am Sep 8, 2020 1:05am
Quoting tradista
{quote} I understand you being extremely cautious with your money as an investor but, for me, such extremely high risk control measures make sense when managing accounts in the six, seven figures - and indeed those are measures that I've seen in my professional circles. but come on... on a 50K account?
So we are not that far apart with how we see risk. With our program with only two milestones leaps, you are on 6 figures' account. I would not want to change the trading terms for our traders once their account size being escalated. If you were thinking you stay on a 50K forever on this program, you have missed the best part of it.
We are Forex traders - Come trade with us
  • #230
  • Sep 8, 2020 1:27am Sep 8, 2020 1:27am
Quoting AnRan
{quote} The only thing we can say, and request to Gil is consider it. We're bartering with him because we all want to work with his firm. So while it may seem annoying to you Gil, in its own way, its a compliment. I'm sure you have a lot more people failing than succeeding and you are trying to stop that. But on the other hand, maybe, just maybe, another reason you are missing out on some good traders is because that exposure is keeping them away.
AnRan

When I established The5ers, I had in mind two things. The first one came from my own personal learning experience. I remember days and months of frustrations for trying to figure out why the trading strategy I do work on backtesting, work for my mentors, work for my colleagues but not for me. Success for me came only when I had deployed a solid risk management, that had forced for realistic results with patience and humble expectations. IMHO the RM we are suggesting for traders participating on our fund, is the one I had to struggle to find.

The second thing I had in mind, is how can comply with as many trading styles possible. I know it is not possible and realistic to say ALL strategies, "MOST" or "MANY" would be more realistic to wish for.

I know for sure we are missing some good traders because of our requirements. There always be false-positive.
I can tell you we are always looking for new models, and we put a lot of thoughts in search to cater to more trading styles.

I truly appreciate you guys are challenging our parameters. So thank you for your contribution.
We are Forex traders - Come trade with us
  • #231
  • Sep 9, 2020 2:00am Sep 9, 2020 2:00am
Part 1 Scalping Supply & Demand Zones in Forex Trading Webinar - Forex for Beginners

The markets are ever-changing. Every day the market adopts different behavior characteristics. Trading the daily bias allows traders the agility for fast updating the market view due to its impulsive changes.
Besides analysis and bias, day trading has many more advantages. Being out from the market at the end of the trading session, has a positive effect for the trader’s lifestyle, in terms of less pressure, defined working hours, faster learning and improvement curve, and much more.
In the upcoming series of webinars, we will dive deep into how to analyze day trading opportunities based on Order flow/supply and demand and price action concepts.

Inserted Video


Enjoy!
We are Forex traders - Come trade with us
  • #232
  • Sep 9, 2020 5:32pm Sep 9, 2020 5:32pm
Quoting AnRan
{quote}@LuXing, well said. And is that PinYin for 旅行？
Yes Sir, it is.
Ongoing preparations for part II (overseas vs overland)...
Trade safely.

LuXing
Wisdom begins in wonder
  • #233
  • Sep 10, 2020 10:08am Sep 10, 2020 10:08am
Forex Trading Room September 10, 2020

Here's today's recording Forex Trading Room Session.

In today's trading room session, We scanned the markets and took trades on EUR/USD, USD/CHF, and USD/CAD. 3 winning trades and 1 losing trade.


Enjoy!
We are Forex traders - Come trade with us
  • #234
  • Sep 10, 2020 11:49pm Sep 10, 2020 11:49pm
I have a question regarding how you guys enforce the stop-loss order. Being a scalper its not always possible to put stop loss while triggering trade. Do you guys have any time limit by which the stop loss has to be put per position? Or does it have to be at the time the order is opened?

The 1.5% risk exposure is fine but for ppl like me who are managing the trades real-time and scalping the market it is a challenge the put the stop loss right at the start of the order but making sure the exposure doesn't cross the 1.5% mark is manageable.
  • #235
  • Sep 10, 2020 11:55pm Sep 10, 2020 11:55pm
Quoting daytradrfx
I have a question regarding how you guys enforce the stop-loss order. Being a scalper its not always possible to put stop loss while triggering trade. Do you guys have any time limit by which the stop loss has to be put per position? Or does it have to be at the time the order is opened? The 1.5% risk exposure is fine but for ppl like me who are managing the trades real-time and scalping the market it sometimes a challenge the put the stop loss right at the start of the order but making sure the exposure doesn't cross the 1.5% mark is manageable....
Hi "N"

Maybe with tools like this one:
https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...ge-trade-panel

Cheers!
  • #236
  • Sep 11, 2020 12:02am Sep 11, 2020 12:02am
Quoting daytradrfx
I have a question regarding how you guys enforce the stop-loss order. Being a scalper its not always possible to put stop loss while triggering trade. Do you guys have any time limit by which the stop loss has to be put per position? Or does it have to be at the time the order is opened? The 1.5% risk exposure is fine but for ppl like me who are managing the trades real-time and scalping the market it is a challenge the put the stop loss right at the start of the order but making sure the exposure doesn't cross the 1.5% mark is manageable.
You get up to two minutes to set a proper sl
We are Forex traders - Come trade with us
  • #237
  • Sep 11, 2020 1:26am Sep 11, 2020 1:26am
Quoting Viktory
{quote} Hi "N" Maybe with tools like this one: https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...ge-trade-panel Cheers!
Thanks man!
  • #238
  • Sep 11, 2020 6:51am Sep 11, 2020 6:51am
Part 2 - Scalping Forex Webinar - Price Action Toolset For Day Traders: Day trading Flags and Poles

The markets are ever-changing. Every day the market adopts different behavior characteristics. Trading the daily bias allows traders the agility for fast updating the market view due to its impulsive changes.
Besides analysis and bias, day trading has many more advantages. Being out from the market at the end of the trading session, has a positive effect for the trader’s lifestyle, in terms of less pressure, defined working hours, faster learning and improvement curve, and much more.
In the upcoming series of webinars, we will dive deep into how to analyze day trading opportunities based on Order flow/supply and demand and price action concepts.

Inserted Video
We are Forex traders - Come trade with us
  • #239
  • Sep 12, 2020 7:48am Sep 12, 2020 7:48am
Part 3 - Scalping Forex Webinar - High probability retracement technique and Price Action Confirmation

The last part of our Scalping Forex Webinar - High probability retracement techniques and the only Price Action Confirmation Chart Pattern you should know.

The markets are ever-changing. Every day the market adopts different behavior characteristics. Trading the daily bias allows traders the agility for fast updating the market view due to its impulsive changes.

Besides analysis and bias, day trading has many more advantages. Being out from the market at the end of the trading session, has a positive effect for the trader’s lifestyle, in terms of less pressure, defined working hours, faster learning and improvement curve, and much more.

In the upcoming series of webinars, we will dive deep into how to analyze day trading opportunities based on Order flow/supply and demand and price action concepts.

Inserted Video
We are Forex traders - Come trade with us
  • #240
  • Sep 13, 2020 5:03am Sep 13, 2020 5:03am
What You Should Know About the Canadian Loonie Dollar (CAD)

If you want to trade the Canadian Loonie Dollar (CAD), this article will make you some order regarding the Canadian currency and economy

For the full article
We are Forex traders - Come trade with us
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