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Attachments: Analysis and Trading based on Envelopes, Waves, Cycles
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Analysis and Trading based on Envelopes, Waves, Cycles

  • #4,081
  • Aug 28, 2020 3:45pm Aug 28, 2020 3:45pm
Quoting OAPDave
{quote} If only I could get you interested in the New Plan ? hahaha
Which Plan ?
  • #4,082
  • Aug 28, 2020 3:47pm Aug 28, 2020 3:47pm
GMR 4 H
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  • #4,083
  • Aug 28, 2020 3:49pm Aug 28, 2020 3:49pm
Quoting parisboy
{quote} Which Plan ?
All things : Shares
  • #4,084
  • Aug 28, 2020 3:49pm Aug 28, 2020 3:49pm
GMR 60 mn
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  • #4,085
  • Aug 28, 2020 3:51pm Aug 28, 2020 3:51pm
GMR 30 mn
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  • #4,086
  • Aug 28, 2020 3:57pm Aug 28, 2020 3:57pm
Quoting parisboy
GMR 30 mn {image}
Just price action, levels and Envelopes and throw in Flds and no worries about time as it would not be our enemy
  • #4,087
  • Aug 28, 2020 3:58pm Aug 28, 2020 3:58pm
GMR 1 mn
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  • #4,088
  • Aug 28, 2020 5:43pm Aug 28, 2020 5:43pm
Hi Paris boy,
A few yrs ago I had a Mentor who showed me the idea of "space- time". One example of that is a range chart ( time axis based on price), or a tick chart ( time function more related to volume )...etc.
Attched is a 15min EUR showing the horrendous spike on 27 aug. There seems to be very little visual structure in that chart.
Compare it to the 600 range chart , with channels drawn in. The spike movement becomes highly tradable by simply using rules based on channels.

Question for you is : Does your method handle spikes ok , or is it possible that your method works better, in a spike environment, on these "Space- time" charts . ( in this case , for me, the range chart. )
Cheers Roelof
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: eur 15 min.png Size: 31 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: 600 range.png Size: 41 KB
  • #4,089
  • Aug 29, 2020 9:23am Aug 29, 2020 9:23am
Quoting rhk
Hi Paris boy, A few yrs ago I had a Mentor who showed me the idea of "space- time". One example of that is a range chart ( time axis based on price), or a tick chart ( time function more related to volume )...etc. Attched is a 15min EUR showing the horrendous spike on 27 aug. There seems to be very little visual structure in that chart. Compare it to the 600 range chart , with channels drawn in. The spike movement becomes highly tradable by simply using rules based on channels. Question for you is : Does your method handle spikes ok , or...
rhk, thank you for your interest

it is an interesting question - indirectly treated see Chart Shift and Phase of Transition.

First we have to define :

- what is precisely a "spike"
- what do you mean exactly by "handling spikes"

I have opinions on both subjects , what are yours

By the way my opinion is that the methodology can "handle spikes" (more or less) if we refer to my definition and that no, the methodology does not work "better" in a "spike environment"
  • #4,090
  • Aug 29, 2020 10:08am Aug 29, 2020 10:08am
hi parisboy,
I am completely new to Hurst's work I've been reading The Profit Magic... for a couple of days now. I don't know if anyone else got this from it but I find it a relatively hard text to understand. I will drop those questions one at a time if I fail to figure them out.
The most pressing issue for me right now is, when he is explaining how to construct the envelopes, he only mentions how to construct the bands. He doesn't mention what he uses as the midpoint for the envelopes. What should I use?
  • #4,091
  • Edited 11:25am Aug 29, 2020 11:12am | Edited 11:25am
Quoting leah.cim
hi parisboy, I am completely new to Hurst's work I've been reading The Profit Magic... for a couple of days now. I don't know if anyone else got this from it but I find it a relatively hard text to understand. I will drop those questions one at a time if I fail to figure them out. The most pressing issue for me right now is, when he is explaining how to construct the envelopes, he only mentions how to construct the bands. He doesn't mention what he uses as the midpoint for the envelopes. What should I use?
leah.cim You need to use a Centered Moving Average as a midpoint (centerline for the Envelopes)

at the time when Jim Hurst wrote Profit Magic his readers had no computers. Hence Hurst advised his readers to draw manually a "centerline" in the middle of the data flow.

In the 90's Brian Millard showed how you can use Centered Moving Averages as "templates " to build Envelopes

https://kupdf.net/download/millard-b...7208da9835_pdf
Attached File(s)
File Type: pptx 6 BUILDING YOUR ENVELOPES 16.pptx   4.5 MB | 692 downloads
File Type: pdf Channel analysis.pdf   2.8 MB | 603 downloads
  • #4,092
  • Aug 29, 2020 11:41am Aug 29, 2020 11:41am
Quoting parisboy
{quote} leah.cim You need to use a Centered Moving Average as a midpoint (centerline for the Envelopes) at the time when Jim Hurst wrote Profit Magic his readers had no computers. Hence Hurst advised his readers to draw manually a "centerline" in the middle of the data flow. In the 90's Brian Millard showed how you can use Centered Moving Averages as "templates " to build Envelopes https://kupdf.net/download/millard-b...7208da9835_pdf {file} {image}

Thank you. It works perfectly.
  • #4,093
  • Aug 29, 2020 1:12pm Aug 29, 2020 1:12pm
Quoting rhk
Hi Paris boy, A few yrs ago I had a Mentor who showed me the idea of "space- time". One example of that is a range chart ( time axis based on price), or a tick chart ( time function more related to volume )...etc. Attched is a 15min EUR showing the horrendous spike on 27 aug. There seems to be very little visual structure in that chart. Compare it to the 600 range chart , with channels drawn in. The spike movement becomes highly tradable by simply using rules based on channels. Question for you is : Does your method handle spikes ok , or is it possible...
EURUSD Spike
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: SPIKE EURUSD 29 AOUT 2020.jpg Size: 60 KB
  • #4,094
  • Edited 2:03pm Aug 29, 2020 1:45pm | Edited 2:03pm
Quoting rhk
Hi Paris boy, A few yrs ago I had a Mentor who showed me the idea of "space- time". One example of that is a range chart ( time axis based on price), or a tick chart ( time function more related to volume )...etc. Attched is a 15min EUR showing the horrendous spike on 27 aug. There seems to be very little visual structure in that chart. Compare it to the 600 range chart , with channels drawn in. The spike movement becomes highly tradable by simply using rules based on channels. Question for you is : Does your method handle spikes ok , or is it possible...
Envelopes parameters before and after the Spike

Parameters have DOUBLED hence you have a CHART SHIFT (OAPDave @TM)
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: SPIKE EURUSD ENVELOPES PARAMETERS BEFORE THE SPIKE.jpg Size: 63 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: SPIKE EURUSD ENVELOPES PARAMETERS AFTER THE SPIKE.jpg Size: 64 KB
  • #4,095
  • Aug 29, 2020 3:09pm Aug 29, 2020 3:09pm
Quoting 1deaman
{quote} hello! I'm struggling to create an envelope on tradingview, is there any indicators or source code for this?
As Alain said...read the thread it is a goldmine of information.

I posted TV code 5 or 6 pages back so you clearly haven't don't much searching.
  • #4,096
  • Aug 29, 2020 11:38pm Aug 29, 2020 11:38pm
Quoting parisboy
{quote} rhk, thank you for your interest it is an interesting question - indirectly treated see Chart Shift and Phase of Transition. First we have to define : - what is precisely a "spike" - what do you mean exactly by "handling spikes" I have opinions on both subjects , what are yours By the way my opinion is that the methodology can "handle spikes" (more or less) if we refer to my definition and that no, the methodology does not work "better" in a "spike environment"
Parisboy,
I 'm basically saying that I think your method applied to range charts might be a great way to be able to trade ( inside) spikes in a structured way.
The reason I say this is that I view all channels (dynamic and constant ) as an expression of interacting cyclic movements.
I sometimes wonder why a range chart should , at times, move to the structure of a channel.?? ( it can be quite profound )
My Mentors' theory was that Time was a kinda multidimensional thing and that there is such a thing as space/time.

I haven't set up your centered moving average envelopes in Sierra charts, as yet, so cant test this. ( range bar size in my chart was.0006 )
I can see from the charts u shared , that the parameters after the spike showed very good structure, offering some great trades.
The spike itself, might be (would be ?) difficult to trade.

I kinda use dynamic cycles in the form of Bollinger Bands and Moving averages interaction. At times , I find they dont work so well , and then the static trendline channels work... And when there is no structure in the Time charts , with either of those, I look to the "space" charts ( range, tick etc ).
News spikes can be a classic time when cycles/structure manifest in the range charts ..????

just sharing some thoughts...in case they might be helpful.
I appreciate the vast and deep knowledge u have shared in this thread.... I love it.
  • #4,097
  • Edited 3:17am Aug 30, 2020 1:56am | Edited 3:17am
Quoting rhk
{quote} Parisboy, I 'm basically saying that I think your method applied to range charts might be a great way to be able to trade ( inside) spikes in a structured way. The reason I say this is that I view all channels (dynamic and constant ) as an expression of interacting cyclic movements. I sometimes wonder why a range chart should , at times, move to the structure of a channel.?? ( it can be quite profound ) My Mentors' theory was that Time was a kinda multidimensional thing and that there is such a thing as space/time. I haven't set up your...
rhk thank you for your thoughts.

let's me elaborate about what is a "spike"

a "spike" is an "extra-ordinary" behaviour of Price Action which generates an acceleration within the Swing.

If we use the Space Time concept you have when the Time is ripe a contraction of Space and Time. Hence the acceleration

Why this contraction ?

IMHO Because of the Return to the Mean Law and of the "Saving Account" concept.

Return to the Mean. With the Time being, Price returns to its mean.

The "45°" Gann Angle is de facto a "mean" - 1 Price Unit x 1 Time Unit. As "mean" and " Moving Averages" became in the 50's more "fashionable" Gann wrote in the last versions of his Trading Courses that the "45° Angle " is a " moving average". Gann was always a top marketing man.

According to Gann Price Action "vibrates" around the 45° Angle (1 Time Unit x 1 Price Unit) where both are "balanced".

When Price Action is ABOVE its (1x1) Angle, Price is in advance relatively to Time. Hence there is a specific moment when Price falls back to regain its balance.

Conversely, When Price Action is UNDER its (1x1) Angle, Price is late relatively to Time. Hence there is a specific moment when Price generates a "Spike" to regain its balance.
  • #4,098
  • Aug 30, 2020 2:36am Aug 30, 2020 2:36am
Squaring Time & Price to balance both ( to reach the Equilibrium Level)
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #4,099
  • Aug 30, 2020 2:37am Aug 30, 2020 2:37am
Gann Squaring Price and Time is a great concept which generates various useful tools.

Let's talk (again) about Cycles

Let's assume that we have determined the Period of the Cycle .

The Period is the distance in Time from one Low to the next.

Let's say we have determined 1 Year, 12 months . Astro guys will be happy because it is related to the Sun

A Cycle has other parameters :

the Amplitude related to Price Action is the height of the cycle from bottom to top.
the Phase Shift related to the positions of other cycles
the Vertical Shift which is the result of the Underlying Trend

Gann has never really taken into account another "Law" : the Return to the Mean

only indirectly.

Price Action returns to its "mean" when Price and Time "square" on the 45° (1 Price Unit x 1 Time Unit) Angle

Price Action oscillates around this "most important Angle" its mean

If Price Action oscillates around another Angle, Jenkins discovered that you just have to consider this Angle as the new 45° (1x1) Angle and translate your previous chart accordingly.

This way you can apply your usual gannish reasonings, principles and angles properties.

But Life is Life and nothing is perfect . Price Action too.

Sometimes Price Action is higher than your 45° Angle , hence Price Action is in Advance relatively to the Time

Conversely Price Action can be lower than the 45° Angle , then Late relatively to the Time

The general idea is to create a kind of saving account (my words) both for Price and Time.

When you initiate a new chart (because Time flows ONLY forward) or a new "cycle" you have various options

if you are in advance you have a credit
if you are late, you have a debit

anyway at the end, there will be a time where you will return to your mean squaring both price and time after compensation of your savings

Then you can open a new saving account starting from zero

This mechanism explains why Cycle periods shorten or lengthen and why at certain Time Price action rushes up or falls down sharply.

It is because both Time and Price have to reach their targets in Price or in Time
  • #4,100
  • Aug 30, 2020 3:27am Aug 30, 2020 3:27am
Gann Angles and Moving Averages
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