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Real or Algo

  • #661
  • Jul 2, 2020 11:22pm Jul 2, 2020 11:22pm
Quoting Viktory
{quote} Thanks to you, Zoltan and Mik for your answers What do you mean by that? What's the difference between "order clusters" and the "edges of order flow"? Where are those located? Cheers!
Zoltan and Rick, correct me if I'm wrong. Order clusters - what's inside the square?

Cheers M
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  • #662
  • Jul 3, 2020 3:10am Jul 3, 2020 3:10am
Quoting deafpostman
{quote} . The irony is this: most of us generally know whats needed; however when sitting at the computer looking for trades, we (newer traders and maybe some old timers) tell ourselves, 'I should do this, get in here, get out there' which would work in many cases, but the 'demon' in us does the exact opposite of what we say....and we lose the trade. We know its time to kick the 'demon' out; but this demon is so intertwined in our personalities, it is not an overnight task. 2 years down, 3 or hopefully less to go. Cheers and thanks to all. Mike
This is everyone's problem and not just in trading. It takes time to know how to tame your emotions and keep cool.
If you have already understood this you have taken the first step to defeat it.
  • #663
  • Jul 3, 2020 4:55am Jul 3, 2020 4:55am
Quoting mik2012
{quote} Zoltan and Rick, correct me if I'm wrong. Order clusters - what's inside the square? Cheers M {image}
Hi Mik2012

Yes, they are order clusters but who created them and why?

The Algo

How did you know where to place your box in the zone almost to the pip?
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Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #664
  • Jul 3, 2020 5:10am Jul 3, 2020 5:10am
Quoting RickM
{quote} Hi Mik2012 Yes, they are order clusters but who created them and why? The Algo How did you know where to place your box in the zone almost to the pip? {image}
This cluster(congestion) is according to Joe Ross .... we take the first bar, all other bars are in the shadow of the first bar .. (either closing or opening) of the remaining bars should be in the shadow of the first bar. As soon as the bar opens and closes above the shadow, the congestion ends
Cheers Mike
  • #665
  • Jul 3, 2020 5:41am Jul 3, 2020 5:41am
Quoting RickM
{quote} Hi Mik2012 Yes, they are order clusters but who created them and why? The Algo How did you know where to place your box in the zone almost to the pip? {image}
@Rick

I didn't understand where is this "triple"?
How did you know where to place your box in the zone almost to the pip?
I don't have the answere to your question above.
  • #666
  • Edited 6:37am Jul 3, 2020 5:41am | Edited 6:37am
Right now we are watching the magic of the Algo trying to fill a Hidden Gap.

This is the top band.

IT CAN'T FILL IT - ITS TRYING SO HARD
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Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #667
  • Jul 3, 2020 6:55am Jul 3, 2020 6:55am
Quoting RickM
Right now we are watching the magic of the Algo trying to fill a Hidden Gap. This is the top band. IT CAN'T FILL IT - ITS TRYING SO HARD {image} {image} {image} {image}
Very nice live action
  • #668
  • Jul 3, 2020 7:07am Jul 3, 2020 7:07am
Quoting RickM
Right now we are watching the magic of the Algo trying to fill a Hidden Gap. This is the top band. IT CAN'T FILL IT - ITS TRYING SO HARD {image} {image} {image} {image}
Hi Rick,

Out of curiosity.

This didn't fill it???
If not, then I must be far off from understanding your vaccuum theory

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Entities should not be multiplied without necessity - Occam's razor
  • #669
  • Edited 9:02am Jul 3, 2020 7:43am | Edited 9:02am
Quoting Frosty85
{quote} Hi Rick, Out of curiosity. This didn't fill it??? If not, then I must be far off from understanding your vaccuum theory {image}
The Vacuum is created in History by a Big player dumping a HUGE order onto the market violently changing direction.
The market remembers, so does the Algo

So now it tried to close the middle Vacuum which was created in August 2015

By now, some traders may have worked out what we are really trading?
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Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #670
  • Jul 3, 2020 11:38am Jul 3, 2020 11:38am
Momentum EC
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  • #671
  • Edited Jul 6, 2020 4:06am Jul 5, 2020 5:25am | Edited Jul 6, 2020 4:06am
In connection with the last posts of George, how do you like this scenario! All MAs are assembled together on H4. Entrance impulse down and jerk up?
I want to supplement my post ... George gave an example of the fifth wave on the M15 .... so here we are now in the fifth wave on the H4
Сheers Mik
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  • #672
  • Jul 8, 2020 9:28pm Jul 8, 2020 9:28pm
Hi all,

This is what I have been able to see for myself on the charts after reading and trying to understand the charts George has posted recently on his thread. There are cycles on each time frame and the market keeps repeating the same waves but in different amount of pips and different number of swings each time. I am trying to use the fib expansion tool to show me when the next swing will be using the 1.27, 1.77 and 2.00 levels. Whilst also using targets to guide me to where price may be going and then to take the reversal. I still need to do a lot of back testing and trying to figure out which swings to use for the fib expansion but I am here to see if anyone has anything to add that may help me and others too. I have attached below 3 different time frames on which I have been able to capture the waves the market is going through every time.

Lastly I would like to say a big thank you to George, Moodybot and Rickm for all your help that you've given me through all your posts.

Kumayl
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  • #673
  • Edited 6:16am Jul 11, 2020 6:02am | Edited 6:16am
Quoting key3
Hi all, This is what I have been able to see for myself on the charts after reading and trying to understand the charts George has posted recently on his thread. There are cycles on each time frame and the market keeps repeating the same waves but in different amount of pips and different number of swings each time. I am trying to use the fib expansion tool to show me when the next swing will be using the 1.27, 1.77 and 2.00 levels. Whilst also using targets to guide me to where price may be going and then to take the reversal. I still need to do...
Hi Key3

"hang on Houston, we have a problem"

The moment we bring fibs, waves into the trading equation, we need to define two issues. What reference point are we using to establish the correct settings and what mathematics are we using to calculate the measurements to confirm this strategy. The problem is we will end up get multiple correct answers for multiple interesting strategy's.
Without George detailing his exact reference points along with his desired fib target readings, you are totally alone and without a strategy.

Personally, I can only give you my take on that chart and describe what I see.

Visually I see patterns and wave components and nothing else.
Now lets see what I get when I break down that chart into mathematics using reference points that seem logical to me, along with some wave formula's.

Last year starting in May, I worked on a project to dismantled George's TMA theory's with the use of wave mathematics in an attempt to either disprove his theory's or confirm his theory's. The fun part was first trying to destroy his TMA model by smashing it into small pieces before I rebuild it and connected all the pieces into a model I hoped would be profitable. I meant no disrespect to George's work because not only is he a great trader, he is a great person. I just wanted to take the mystery out of trading.

What I found was a answer I didn't expect. The TMA model was indeed a flawed model due to using daily averaging in a TMA indicator as a basics for reversal points without considering the current density of market orders hitting passive orders on the chart right now. I asked myself how could I include this current market pressure measurements and bring them into my work and when is it important to use it. While there is probably 100 nice answers, I kept on seeing results describing one model at the top of profit factor results on every calculation.

The most profitable results describes a Single Wave model produced by a single wave formula every single time. Not a Multiple Wave model.
The graph below is GBPJPY from June that was created by my testing EA using a single wave formula within its calculations. I use it to optimize my settings.

Now some traders may now guess where my boundary measurements came from and how I have come to understand the Algo that moves price is being controlled from the past.
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Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #674
  • Jul 11, 2020 9:49am Jul 11, 2020 9:49am
Quoting RickM
{quote} Hi Key3 "hang on Houston, we have a problem" The moment we bring fibs, waves into the trading equation, we need to define two issues. What reference point are we using to establish the correct settings and what mathematics are we using to calculate the measurements to confirm this strategy. The problem is we will end up get multiple correct answers for multiple interesting strategy's. Without George detailing his exact reference points along with his desired fib target readings, you are totally alone and without a strategy. Personally, I...
@RickM
It's nice you found your secret ingredient to success that probably nobody will understand.
I guess it's better to keep it secret otherwise you take out the mistery aspect from how the market really works.

Cheers
  • #675
  • Jul 13, 2020 12:56pm Jul 13, 2020 12:56pm
Quoting RickM
{quote} Hi Key3 "hang on Houston, we have a problem" The moment we bring fibs, waves into the trading equation, we need to define two issues. What reference point are we using to establish the correct settings and what mathematics are we using to calculate the measurements to confirm this strategy. The problem is we will end up get multiple correct answers for multiple interesting strategy's. Without George detailing his exact reference points along with his desired fib target readings, you are totally alone and without a strategy. Personally, I...
Hi Rick,

yes you are correct, without knowing the exact points from where I need to connect the Fibonacci tool it is a useless method to approach as there will be multiple answers. Of course I have been experimenting and using trial and error to find the fib levels that will show me what point price will go to and then reverse. While also asking anyone here, if they know through their own research which points may work best.

From my own findings after reading George’s posts, I believe we need to use the beginning points and the end points of each cycle for the Fibonacci expansion tool, I could be wrong however I have seen it work almost every time, which may mean that I still haven’t found what George is talking about therefore still need to continue researching.

With the Wave theory that is based on George’s findings, I believe I see what he is talking about that there are waves in every single time frame and that is how the market moves up and down to go towards the targets.

I’m not sure I understand why you looked into the TMA True indicator in so much detail, as the main purpose of it was to show when price is in the extreme zone. Showing us that price has moved in a direction with great speed, with momentum, most likely towards a target, and then based on each individual’s findings from their own back testing, to then take the reversal with great accuracy.

Could you show me what you see on the chart that describes ‘a single wave model’ and what does it mean when you say ‘controlled from the past’ in your conclusion?

Kumayl
  • #676
  • Jul 20, 2020 2:58am Jul 20, 2020 2:58am
I'd like to share a rather simplistic but effective way of drawing future boundaries. I am a scalper and use it on 1min charts but you can use it on any tf, just be aware that it can take longer and run into greater DD the larger the tf.

Choose any single, confirmed wave i.e. the wave has to be confirmed by a move in the opposite direction.
Draw a rectangle from left to right, enclosing the wave.
Copy the rectangle and place it alongside the initial one.
You now have your boundary box including the time limit.

There is an extremely high probability that, if price breaks out of the box within the time limit, it will return inside of the box.

Attached is one I scalped earlier. The first image shows the initial low to high box. The second shows the first box copied and placed alongside to give me my boundary and time limit. The third image shows three scalps I made when price popped up above the top boundary while still within the time limit.

I think this very much confirms that something is at work to control price movement but we are all responsible for our own due diligence so please don't just take my word for it, it is a very easy thing to visually backtest.
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  • #677
  • Jul 20, 2020 8:56pm Jul 20, 2020 8:56pm
Quoting key3
{quote} Hi Rick, yes you are correct, without knowing the exact points from where I need to connect the Fibonacci tool it is a useless method to approach as there will be multiple answers. Of course I have been experimenting and using trial and error to find the fib levels that will show me what point price will go to and then reverse. While also asking anyone here, if they know through their own research which points may work best. From my own findings after reading George’s posts, I believe we need to use the beginning points and the end points...
Hi Key3

The TMA True indicator showed me how to find the Single wave that traps the Algo, I have no more use for it now.

I don’t see waves on every time frame. For me that’s falling into the trap of trading patterns on a hutch. Looking a bit deeper, it’s just the Algo taking out targets like we have talked about for 18 months.
The only wave that concerns me is the one that surrounds the Auction Algo at the heart of the order flow zone. A sine wave that phases through the market with components that are historically fixed.

So if the wave is moving through the markets with fixed settings, it’s obviously controlled from the past.
If you want to know what one of the settings is for AUDJPY, it’s 11.
That was the setting all this year, as the wave is not broken which it isn’t- that will be my setting I use tonight and next week.
So I know what the limit of expansion will be tonight,
I just don’t know when till a few minutes out because it can slide along its frequency for hours.

Cheers Rick
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #678
  • Jul 21, 2020 1:08am Jul 21, 2020 1:08am
Quoting RickM
{quote} Hi Key3 The TMA True indicator showed me how to find the Single wave that traps the Algo, I have no more use for it now. I don’t see waves on every time frame. For me that’s falling into the trap of trading patterns on a hutch. Looking a bit deeper, it’s just the Algo taking out targets like we have talked about for 18 months. The only wave that concerns me is the one that surrounds the Auction Algo at the heart of the order flow zone. A sine wave that phases through the market with components that are historically fixed. So if the wave...
Arghhh this is driving me crazy! I have been at this game a very long time (some of us are even older than George ) and I think there are many ways to make money, especially if you are a scalper and are content to take very small bites - on a frequent basis those small bites add up very quickly. I began before there was an 'online' and there was no material available in the UK so I spent holidays in the US sitting on the floors of bookshops reading and buying up any chart and trading books I could lay my hands on.

But it is a very long time since I was as intrigued by anything as much as I am by expansion limiting. It makes so much logical sense I could kick myself for not having seen it for myself. I have so far tried distance from a rolling POC, distance from mtf Opens, Fib expansions........ but although some of them yield rewards, I haven't come up with anything sufficiently consistent as yet. I will crack this if it's the last thing I do (and it may be lol!). Thanks for all the hints so far @RickM.
  • #679
  • Jul 21, 2020 1:15am Jul 21, 2020 1:15am
Quoting RickM
{quote} Hi Key3 The TMA True indicator showed me how to find the Single wave that traps the Algo, I have no more use for it now. I don’t see waves on every time frame. For me that’s falling into the trap of trading patterns on a hutch. Looking a bit deeper, it’s just the Algo taking out targets like we have talked about for 18 months. The only wave that concerns me is the one that surrounds the Auction Algo at the heart of the order flow zone. A sine wave that phases through the market with components that are historically fixed. So if the wave...

Great post Rick

Bet your inbox takes a hammering...
  • #680
  • Jul 21, 2020 6:05am Jul 21, 2020 6:05am
Quoting hepsibah
{quote} Arghhh this is driving me crazy! I have been at this game a very long time (some of us are even older than George ) and I think there are many ways to make money, especially if you are a scalper and are content to take very small bites - on a frequent basis those small bites add up very quickly. I began before there was an 'online' and there was no material available in the UK so I spent holidays in the US sitting on the floors of bookshops reading and buying up any chart and trading books I could lay...
Now that is going back a bit
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
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