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  • #481
  • Apr 16, 2020 10:00am Apr 16, 2020 10:00am
Quoting GMD
{quote} Well I am pretty sure 1% for George Soros must be many millons too But yeah, pro retail traders could be risking 0,01 - 1% per trade.. Doesn't mean you should be trading with SL.. Compounding works the same no matter if you trade millons or just a few bucks
You are not Soros, and you do not have millions and billions of $. We are a retail traders and unless you have enough money to spend on losses, stop loss is very useful for retail traders. My sl saved me a lot throughout years. It helped me not blowing my accounts. But it's your money, you don't want to use SL, that is your choice.
  • #482
  • Edited 10:25am Apr 16, 2020 10:13am | Edited 10:25am
Quoting YYZ
{quote} I do not know what to say. you and such want to guard adult person from another adult person and no one is asking you to do so... ---- I will delete this post , no need to reply if you intended.
Not exactly for guarding.. But I was once a new trader many years ago.

I wasted a lot of time reading peoples posts or threads talking about things they claimed to be experts and making a lot of money... non of this ever proved to be so with real data, real results.. just words

Don't get me wrong, there are many people who start threads for good and honest reasons. But most of this people are so caught up in their own ideas of how trading should be, that they cannot admit they haven't made any profits at all... or if they did, they lost it already..

Same goes for people going around threads talking big time about themselves..

Of course everyone is on their rights to share their thoughts... But like I said, many end up "teaching" others when they are not profitable traders.. Many are here to learn. How can you learn from someone who can't provide a tracking record of their results..
  • #483
  • Apr 16, 2020 10:24am Apr 16, 2020 10:24am
Quoting Techanalyst
{quote} You are not Soros, and you do not have millions and billions of $. We are a retail traders and unless you have enough money to spend on losses, stop loss is very useful for retail traders. My sl saved me a lot throughout years. It helped me not blowing my accounts. But it's your money, you don't want to use SL, that is your choice.
It doesn't matter if I dont have millions or billions... even 1% of my small capital it is a lot of money to me.. Why would I get in a trade to lose money at a fixed price??

If you blow up your account because you use no SL then the problem is about how you manage your capital, how much you risk. Maybe you use high amount of lots per pip.. or perhaps you enter too many positions at a time... Of course you gonna blow up your account like this.. ( I have experienced it if I must be honest.. but learned a huge lesson)
At the moment I am just having fun with very small account with high risk.. Gotta get entertained during Quarantine. But I wouldn't risk so much in normal days.. I rather grow slow and steady.

SL will help you not blowing up your account if you risk a lot... but will also stop you to make it grow.. Again, how can you compound your money if you are constantly losing trades over and over.. (please try to answer me this question)

Idk mate, its been some time that I stopped using SL.. even used wide SL and things got better.. but never coming back to stop loss, ever again.

Anyhow. This is how I think of trading.. my mindset has changed some time ago. I am not into perfect "systems" anymore.. just making my account grow.
  • #484
  • Apr 16, 2020 10:30am Apr 16, 2020 10:30am
Quoting GMD
{quote} It doesn't matter if I dont have millions or billions... even 1% of my small capital it is a lot of money to me.. Why would I get in a trade to lose money at a fixed price?? If you blow up your account because you use no SL then the problem is about how you manage your capital, how much you risk. Maybe you use high amount of lots per pip.. or perhaps you enter too many positions at a time... Of course you gonna blow up your account like this.. ( I have experienced it if I must be honest.. but learned a huge lesson) At the moment I am just...
I use smaller lots and stretch my SL. IT works most of the time especially on higher time frame. If I trade on 4 HR tf or 1 Hr TF, I do tend to use bigger lots, put my SL tight, but it also works most of the time, the main thing is where you enter and put that SL where you are sure it is not going to hit. I do have a good amount of capital in my accounts so not worried about it. But whatever you're comfortable with.
  • #485
  • Apr 16, 2020 10:39am Apr 16, 2020 10:39am
Quoting Techanalyst
{quote} I use smaller lots and stretch my SL. IT works most of the time especially on higher time frame. If I trade on 4 HR tf or 1 Hr TF, I do tend to use bigger lots, put my SL tight, but it also works most of the time, the main thing is where you enter and put that SL where you are sure it is not going to hit. I do have a good amount of capital in my accounts so not worried about it. But whatever you're comfortable with.
Okay thats fair enough. The truth is that if SL didn't work for me, doesn't neccesarily mean it won't work for others... It just happens to be that most of profitable traders I know can provide tracking record of their results, don't use SL at all... Isn't that interesting?

Try to answer me the quesiton I asked before, this:

Quoting GMD
{quote}SL will help you not blowing up your account if you risk a lot... but will also stop you to make it grow.. Again, how can you compound your money if you are constantly losing trades over and over..
For me it doesn't make sense. If you have 100% of your capital, you risk 1% and price reaches your SL.. now you have to recalculate your compounding with 99% capital. Doesn't it make it harder to make the account grow?

Just saying.
  • #486
  • Apr 16, 2020 10:45am Apr 16, 2020 10:45am
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} I'm saying those big guns commit somewhere between 10-50% of capital into one trade idea, ofc in the hundreds of millions upward. On retail Forum, the pros all say commit 0.01-1% for each trade. Big difference. Not sure if anyone realise this.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Soros avarage return.png Size: 19 KB


lets check the fasts, bcos the imagination starting to run real wide here once again....

talking about compounding, what that yearly average 20% in monthly numbers?
approx 1.5% a month on average.
or about 0.4% a week.
or about 0.08% a day.
does that mean one needs to commit 15-50% of equity to be a "big gun" to produce similar returns as a "retail forum pro"?

imagine for a moment the scenario that a retail trader ( or maybe even Soros) working on multiple setups a day...
so that meager less than 0.1% a day can come together from profits of 3-5 or even more entries.
average.
super important word.

if anything, the fund's result teach us not needing to take 15-50% commitment on any idea. at all.
the opposite.
here is also Berkshire/W. Buffett, also very so often used as the example...

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: berkshire dd.png Size: 54 KB


similar results, about 2% a month, on average.
but what is that?
up to 50% dd?!?!
multiple occasions?
how about tight SL?
every forumite noob knows that 20% return with 50% dd is bad! like really BAAAAADDDD!!
so wait!!
why is W.B. or G.S. are called some of the best traders alive?
what makes them so great, shouldn't be great return or ROMaD for the lowly retail pro?

perhaps committing 15-50% to a trade idea is exactly the silly thing that kills way too many forum retail "traders" account?
does anyone need to look up the famous LTCM fund story about Nobel laurate and other "big gun"s doing that sort of risk and with what outcome?

i don't care to argue,
nor looking to pick on the quoted poster or others,
it is good to have a reality check, and instead of feelings look up some facts too!

and for departure, a little food for thoughts:
W.B. and G.S. made huge amount of money on management fees.
on large equity base.
that was happy with 2% a month or less, on average, as a long term return.
perhaps the forum retail pros and traders find it more productive to look options to work on equity where they can be considered super successful with 2% a month, not 500% a day, 100% a month, or try to grow 0,18cent to 10k challenge ( time waste).

PS. just my 2 cents.
if comes to arguing about what i wrote, not a problem, but please only those who can back up their words with something solid. else, kindly don't bother.
happy trading!
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #487
  • Apr 16, 2020 10:48am Apr 16, 2020 10:48am
Quoting GMD
{quote} Okay thats fair enough. The truth is that if SL didn't work for me, doesn't neccesarily mean it won't work for others... It just happens to be that most of profitable traders I know can provide tracking record of their results, don't use SL at all... Isn't that interesting? Try to answer me the quesiton I asked before, this: {quote} For me it doesn't make sense. If you have 100% of your capital, you risk 1% and price reaches your SL.. now you have to recalculate your compounding with 99% capital. Doesn't it make it harder to make the account...
You have a good point and it is true. But think of it this way, if that keeps happening a lot, either trader uses stop loss in a way that he shouldn't, or need to adjust the strategy, finding a better strategy or better way to hit much more profits then losses. So we are talking about fundamentals, technical and sentiments.
  • #488
  • Apr 16, 2020 10:50am Apr 16, 2020 10:50am
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} {image} lets check the fasts, bcos the imagination starting to run real wide here once again.... talking about compounding, what that yearly average 20% in monthly numbers? approx 1.5% a month on average. or about 0.4% a week. or about 0.08% a day. does that mean one needs to commit 15-50% of equity to be a "big gun" to produce similar returns as a "retail forum pro"? imagine for a moment the scenario that a retail trader ( or maybe even Soros) working on multiple setups a day... so that meager less than 0.1% a day can come together from...
Just in time Zoltan! great post!

Forgot to mention about that 15% -50% thing... Just because he makes billions doesn't mean he risks huge amount of his capital... Maybe 1% a month is more than enough to make him many many millions
  • #489
  • Apr 16, 2020 10:57am Apr 16, 2020 10:57am
Quoting Techanalyst
{quote} You have a good point and it is true. But think of it this way, if that keeps happening a lot, either trader uses stop loss in a way that he shouldn't, or need to adjust the strategy, finding a better strategy or better way to hit much more profits then losses. So we are talking about fundamentals, technical and sentiments.
What if there is no such thing as a "good adjustment of Stop Loss"??

For example, remember that GBPCAD trade. You placed your SL for a reason in first place, then adjusted it a bit higher risking more of your capital.. Still hit SL.

Whats the reason it hit SL?

Again, is there a "good" or "perfect" adjustment of Stop Loss? How many times has price reached your SL and then went the direction you wanted?
  • #490
  • Apr 16, 2020 11:07am Apr 16, 2020 11:07am
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} {image} lets check the fasts, bcos the imagination starting to run real wide here once again.... talking about compounding, what that yearly average 20% in monthly numbers? approx 1.5% a month on average. or about 0.4% a week. or about 0.08% a day. does that mean one needs to commit 15-50% of equity to be a "big gun" to produce similar returns as a "retail forum pro"? imagine for a moment the scenario that a retail trader ( or maybe even Soros) working on multiple setups a day... so that meager less than 0.1% a day can come together from...
Gospel truth from a retail forum super pro. Nothing to argue.

Neophytes, bookmark this post and trade accordingly.

0.01% per trade, take note.
Know what you trade
  • #491
  • Apr 16, 2020 11:22am Apr 16, 2020 11:22am
Quoting GMD
{quote} What if there is no such thing as a "good adjustment of Stop Loss"?? For example, remember that GBPCAD trade. You placed your SL for a reason in first place, then adjusted it a bit higher risking more of your capital.. Still hit SL. Whats the reason it hit SL? Again, is there a "good" or "perfect" adjustment of Stop Loss? How many times has price reached your SL and then went the direction you wanted?
My mistake on GBPCAD. Monthly still testing supply zone the green box. Above that red box next supply zone. I enter sell position too quickly and I shouldn't have.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: GBPCADMonthly.png Size: 47 KB
  • #492
  • Apr 16, 2020 11:55am Apr 16, 2020 11:55am
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} Gospel truth from a retail forum super pro. Nothing to argue. Neophytes, bookmark this post and trade accordingly. 0.01% per trade, take note.
funny are you. not.
young padawan, for your viewing pleasure on my profile there is a TE. live. solid broker. solid return.
once you grow up, read that post again.
hope one day you will understand it too.
for your own sake.
in the meantime, just ignore my posts.
i don't call myself forum super pro, never have. but maybe you are.
looking forward your live trading risking 15-50% like the big guns you mention ( whom don't do that, btw!), and lasting for a period beyond a handful days.
intolerantly dishing out BS after BS on this thread and the forum, based on what?
theoretical question, surely not on your results that exist in your dreams.
now go join the bunch of crybabies until you can, cos soon enough you will get to high impact for some noobs believing the smart thing is to risk 15-50% bcos you said so that what the big guns do...no facts but cos that how you feel about, why to use some rational thinking, and hard numbers of available?!...
and once you get high impact, what will be your next excuse to smear anyone who happen to get there too, while upkeeping some lame excuse why cant put a week of live trading up from your millions made?
a waste of time you are, really.
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #493
  • Apr 16, 2020 12:01pm Apr 16, 2020 12:01pm
Impressive results man!

You don't need to share but that is an example of a good TE.
  • #494
  • Apr 16, 2020 12:03pm Apr 16, 2020 12:03pm
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} funny are you. not. young padawan, for your viewing pleasure on my profile there is a TE. live. solid broker. solid return. once you grow up, read that post again. hope one day you will understand it too. for your own sake. in the meantime, just ignore my posts. i don't call myself forum super pro, never have. but maybe you are. looking forward your live trading risking 15-50% like the big guns you mention ( whom don't do that, btw!), and lasting for a period beyond a handful days. intolerantly dishing out BS after BS on this thread and...
Brush a nerve? Ha ha

Anyway, this forum will never change. Gospel truths everywhere. That's why IF you read CAREFULLY, I have never posted my ideas about trading not a single post, keep speculating. Waste time people are diehards and no chance for reverse engineering. Few who get it gets it. End of discussion. Happy trading super pro and stay happy and cheerful always.
Know what you trade
  • #495
  • Apr 16, 2020 12:47pm Apr 16, 2020 12:47pm
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} Brush a nerve? Ha ha Anyway, this forum will never change. Gospel truths everywhere. That's why IF you read CAREFULLY, I have never posted my ideas about trading not a single post, keep speculating. Waste time people are diehards and no chance for reverse engineering. Few who get it gets it. End of discussion. Happy trading super pro and stay happy and cheerful always.
exactly.
this forum never changes. you are an example why. pseudo trader from fantasy island.
a nerve? not me. maybe yours.
diarrhea of words...right...yours again...proof of backing up your talk of BS?
nope. NOTHING!

if anything gospel truth are truly missing from my posts.
i don't tell anyone to trade 18 cents and get a millionaire.
nor that forex is losers game.
not even that it is impossible to make a living from it, but the contrary.

waiting to see some solid proof where you get that those "big guns" of Dalio or Soros wager 15-50% on a trade idea...
keep dreaming noob that someone need to reverse engineer your system that cant trade monopoly money for a month, not to mention years.
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #496
  • Apr 16, 2020 12:59pm Apr 16, 2020 12:59pm
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} exactly. this forum never changes. you are an example why. pseudo trader from fantasy island. a nerve? not me. maybe yours. diarrhea of words...right...yours again...proof of backing up your talk of BS? nope. NOTHING! waiting to see some solid proof where you get that those "big guns" of Dalio or Soros wager 15-50% on a trade idea... keep dreaming noob that someone need to reverse engineer your system that cant trade monopoly money for a month, not to mention years.
You live on forum. I don't.
High impact means everything to you.
Means nothing to me.
Your high impact credibility means everything to you.
Reason for your live te, too obvious.
Discredit fellow posters is what you do.
I ask questions politely, no response is obligated.
Anyone free to write anything no proof is required.
Just be prepared for other members to challenge in civil discourse. Members are adults who decide for themselves.
If live te proof is required for posting pro traders who mostly won't oblige are automatically sidelined, forum lost shutting people up. You, high impact, dominate opinion.
Adhominem and personal attack.
None used by me and post focused on subject of discussion with no personal reference,..... Except super pro trader.
You call bs, nothing else offered.
If I disagree I express it with clarity.
Big difference.

Anyway, best you put me on ignore.
My posts clearly have a negative effect on you somehow.
Do it for your own good.
Know what you trade
  • #497
  • Edited 1:52pm Apr 16, 2020 1:23pm | Edited 1:52pm
Quoting profitfarmer
waiting to see some solid proof where you get that those "big guns" of Dalio or Soros wager 15-50% on a trade idea....
Simple Wikipedia do the trick.

George Soros committed US$10 billion short sale should be in the region of 50% or more of his funds capital in this one trade idea.

"Soros is known as "The Man Who Broke the Bank of England" because of his short sale of US$10 billion worth of pounds sterling, which made him a profit of $1 billion during the 1992 Black Wednesday UK currency crisis."

Another example.

" Soros was believed to have traded billions of Finnish markkas on February 5, 1996, in anticipation of selling them short."

I tried to give a different viewpoint outside the typical retail traders paradigm. I got blasted. Lol
Forum never change.
Know what you trade
  • #498
  • Apr 16, 2020 1:55pm Apr 16, 2020 1:55pm
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} Simple Wikipedia do the trick. George Soros committed US$10 billion short sale should be in the region of 50% or more of his funds capital in this one trade idea. "Soros is known as "The Man Who Broke the Bank of England" because of his short sale of US$10 billion worth of pounds sterling, which made him a profit of $1 billion during the 1992 Black...
How is your trading bro, are you successful?
J12
  • #499
  • Apr 16, 2020 1:56pm Apr 16, 2020 1:56pm
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} Simple Wikipedia do the trick. George Soros committed US$10 billion short sale should be in the region of 50% or more of his funds capital in this one trade idea. "Soros is known as "The Man Who Broke the Bank of England" because of his short sale of US$10 billion worth of pounds sterling, which made him a profit of $1 billion during the 1992 Black...
But this was in 1992, George Soros has a value of $8 billion dollars right now 2020.. Where do you get it was $10 billions of his funds?

Or you are saying the funds from investors he managed at that time was $20 billion and he risked %50 of the capital for this one trade??

I don't know mate.. Give us the link where you get that info.
  • #500
  • Apr 16, 2020 1:57pm Apr 16, 2020 1:57pm
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} Simple Wikipedia do the trick. George Soros committed US$10 billion short sale should be in the region of 50% or more of his funds capital in this one trade idea. "Soros is known as "The Man Who Broke the Bank of England" because of his short sale of US$10 billion worth of pounds sterling, which made him a profit of $1 billion during the 1992 Black...
Read this from the best Forex speculator of all time(extracts from wiki).

Soros's writings focus heavily on the concept of reflexivity, where the biases of individuals enter into market transactions, potentially changing the fundamentals of the economy. Soros argues that different principles apply in markets depending on whether they are in a "near to equilibrium" or a "far from equilibrium" state. He argues that, when markets are rising or falling rapidly, they are typically marked by disequilibrium rather than equilibrium, and that the conventional economic theory of the market (the "efficient market hypothesis") does not apply in these situations. Soros has popularized the concepts of dynamic disequilibrium, static disequilibrium, and near-equilibrium conditions.[57] He has stated that his own financial success has been attributable to the edge accorded by his understanding of the action of the reflexive effect. Reflexivity is based on three main ideas:[57]

  1. Reflexivity is best observed under special conditions where investor bias grows and spreads throughout the investment arena. Examples of factors that may give rise to this bias include (a) equity leveraging or (b) the trend-following habits of speculators.
  2. Reflexivity appears intermittently since it is most likely to be revealed under certain conditions; i.e., the character of the equilibrium process is best considered in terms of probabilities.
  3. Investors' observation of and participation in the capital markets may at times influence valuations and fundamental conditions or outcomes

The concept of reflexivity attempts to explain why markets moving from one equilibrium state to another tend to overshoot or undershoot. Soros's theories were originally dismissed by economists,[199] but have received more attention after the 2008 crash including becoming the focus of an issue of the Journal of Economic Methodology "

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