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Sam Seiden Goes DOWN

  • #341
  • Apr 13, 2020 10:37pm Apr 13, 2020 10:37pm
Quoting Winston Reed
{quote} Very well BW. I learned to trade by doing my own homework and a lot of research. After much trial and error I came across an individual/website that seemed to me to demonstrate true knowledge of markets. I never asked him to prove it nor did I ask him to show me any statements. Although I paid him he wasn't selling a system nor did I have to buy anything special like some fancy indicator. He also didn't make promises of extraordinary wealth or riches. The only thing he offered was an understanding of market behavior, movement and structure....
Clearly we are different.

I agree fully the start of any meaningful trading journey is to learn about market structure.

The big gulf of difference is in our expectation and understanding of market structure. I expect market structure to be objectively quantified due to the nature of risk exposure in this business - that's true knowledge for ME. I have the resources and that's what I pursued and attained.

Subjective, discretionary knowledge about market structure don't cut the ice for Me, it's mere experiential opinion.

Quoting Winston Reed
Finally one thing one can do to start is look at a low time frame chart. Even one minute charts. Price is fractal so the movements on a 1 min or 3 minute chart are no different than on an hourly or H4 chart. Clear your mind of what you know and just observe. Don't dismiss individual bars or candles. This is essentially how many trade futures because they are usually tick charts and can move quite rapidly.
Spot on correct. If the trader sees the same on any and every timeframe, he truly has a genuine grasp about market structure. This is the acid test.

Quoting Winston Reed
Don't dismiss individual bars or candles. This is essentially how many trade futures because they are usually tick charts and can move quite rapidly.
I don't dismiss them. I studied candles in detail and have it objectively quantified. You get the idea the extent I went to.
Know what you trade
  • #342
  • Apr 13, 2020 11:57pm Apr 13, 2020 11:57pm
Quoting Techanalyst
{quote} Nope, got this from somewhere else. Not Sam's quote. I never took Sam's course and never will. He is not inventor of this strategy, so I will not quote him in anyway whatsoever.

Really? More then 20 years this strategy exist? I did not know that.
  • #343
  • Apr 14, 2020 12:47am Apr 14, 2020 12:47am
"The Coronavirus has changed the world.
Jobs are no longer safe. The share markets have crashed.
Retirement funds have fallen. Property prices will now fall.
Traditional investments are failing.

Yet through all of this, the Forex market has prospered. The markets are active and the returns can be staggering".

Check "The Forex Coach" Andrew Mitchem, he's is the Southern Hemisphere's Sam Seiden. This guy markets to the world and peddles his forex crap for exorbitant fees,the SEC needs to bring him down along with all the other snake oil salesmen.
  • #344
  • Apr 14, 2020 1:02am Apr 14, 2020 1:02am
Quoting YYZ
{quote} Really? More then 20 years this strategy exist? I did not know that.
What? This exist since the beginning of economy and finance. Supply and demand.
  • #345
  • Edited 2:09am Apr 14, 2020 1:17am | Edited 2:09am
Quoting Techanalyst
{quote} What? This exist since the beginning of economy and finance. Supply and demand.
No. Supply and demand exist since the beginning of economy and finance.recognizing it on chart is quiet different story...if that is easy no looser and no trading...And Sam always said 101 economy since Adam Smith...

It was his way of recognition S&D: Qualifying levels, DBR , RBD...Wyckoff was doing with volume...Elliot waves...Sam Seiden has his method..he was not only one on patent but everyone knew for Sam Seiden...


So who was before him trading on the same way?
  • #346
  • Edited 5:20am Apr 14, 2020 5:05am | Edited 5:20am
Quoting YYZ
{quote} Really? More then 20 years this strategy exist? I did not know that.
Just do some research ......................

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/ans...and-demand.asp

This was in my economics lesson at school over ** years ago.
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #347
  • Apr 14, 2020 5:34am Apr 14, 2020 5:34am
This is about if Sam Seiden is a real trader, not about do supply & demand zones work.

Sam Seiden is not a trader (according to the article in the OP), he got customers to borrow $60k to learn from him, something he does not understand himself.
All Assets NAS100 GLD BTC AUS JPY GBP All Time Return: 18.9%
  • #348
  • Apr 14, 2020 6:14am Apr 14, 2020 6:14am
Quoting Shabs19
{quote} Just do some research ...................... https://www.investopedia.com/ask/ans...and-demand.asp This was in my economics lesson at school over ** years ago.
No. We are not talking about S&D in general; it is about Sam Seiden's system of recognition of it on chart...

Many traders have their own way with all kind of indicators...
  • #349
  • Apr 14, 2020 6:17am Apr 14, 2020 6:17am
Quoting Phil_GMT
This is about if Sam Seiden is a real trader, not about do supply & demand zones work. Sam Seiden is not a trader (according to the article in the OP), he got customers to borrow $60k to learn from him, something he does not understand himself.
What is your credit to judge about sam seiden's ability to trade? If you are better then him then you can otherwise is not right to do so...

Do you have evidence that he is not trader or he was not trader?

Losers always attack successful traders because they cannot believe that someone else is successful just because they are not.
  • #350
  • Apr 14, 2020 6:27am Apr 14, 2020 6:27am
Quoting Phil_GMT
This is about if Sam Seiden is a real trader, not about do supply & demand zones work. Sam Seiden is not a trader (according to the article in the OP), he got customers to borrow $60k to learn from him, something he does not understand himself.
I really do not know if Sam Seiden was trader or not, I am not aware if he has ever disclosed details of his own trading records, and whether he does or does not understand his own methods, but there are plenty of free videos of him on FX street, explaining his strategy. So you can make your own mind up.

The article mentions only the mis-selling practices using unsubstantiated claims about earnings and the harrassment of individuals who would dare to make a complaint to the authorities. The patent they had was mis-used to justify their courses had some kind of approval frmo the FTC.

The FTC are not pursuing the cost or value of the courses sold or whether Supply & Demand works or not. They are not going to refund money that people lost either purchasing the course or the trading losses. The individuals themselves probably would have to pursue this at their own cost.

I am sure OTA will defend the charges & produce all their endorsements from previous clients who did find value and succeeded with their courses.
A lot of people use reviews of a product or service before they make up their mind before purchasing anything, especially off the internet.

I am not defending OTA, I have no interest, in fact I tried to deter a good friend of mine who did enrol with OTA, Also I have been to one of their free classes, many years ago, so I speak with knowledge of their methods to persuade people to sign up.

I don't know if you have heard of Greg Secker ? Same style as OTA
https://www.theguardian.com/business...ch-or-could-he
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #351
  • Apr 14, 2020 6:36am Apr 14, 2020 6:36am
Quoting YYZ
{quote} No. Supply and demand exist since the beginning of economy and finance.recognizing it on chart is quiet different story...if that is easy no looser and no trading...And Sam always said 101 economy since Adam Smith... It was his way of recognition S&D: Qualifying levels, DBR , RBD...Wyckoff was doing with volume...Elliot waves...Sam Seiden has his method..he was not only one on patent but everyone knew for Sam Seiden... So who was before him trading on the same way?
Every institutional traders and every bank traders and so on. No Sam did not event S&D trading method. It has been around in economics, on charts forever.
  • #352
  • Apr 14, 2020 6:38am Apr 14, 2020 6:38am
Quoting YYZ
{quote} No. We are not talking about S&D in general; it is about Sam Seiden's system of recognition of it on chart... Many traders have their own way with all kind of indicators...
It is not about "Sam's system", he has no system of S&D, he did not invent that at all.
  • #353
  • Apr 14, 2020 7:14am Apr 14, 2020 7:14am
why do folks that never have dug deep into SS / OTA strategy and used it and used it... so disparaging ? All we as people do is beat up on eachother.... Supply & Demand works...OTA works hard to get it right and support their students. All you haters.... missing the boat. NO disrepect meant... Forex Fac.... lame....It Works!! Yes ... costly... & yes some elderly shouldn't buy in. Im 70+ if they can't use a computer and be fluid... they shouldn't try to get a hit... one last time. I would agree that some of the cool aid... shouldn't be served to the elderly. I use it daily ... online classes with some the most experience traders in the country. there are thousands in a 1hr class... classes all day 5 days and intermittement sat/sun..... People (not the majority) make huge duckits!! Its' not an overnite process... BUT it works!!!
Best to you ALL
ps..SS... is a good person and dedicated instructor. Speak from hence you Know!!
  • #354
  • Apr 14, 2020 7:26am Apr 14, 2020 7:26am
Quoting Techanalyst
{quote} Every institutional traders and every bank traders and so on. No Sam did not event S&D trading method. It has been around in economics, on charts forever.
I agree with this. S&D is a fundamental part of trading any market. That being said though, I do not share the belief that trading can be "taught" in the way that most trading educators lay it out. Labeling this guy as a scammer may be the right cause of action in this case, especially if his motive was to make money from his "students" instead of selecting only a few people to mentor.

Not everyone can learn how to trade, it doesn't matter how much money you spend on education. It requires a certain type of person who can maintain optimism to succeed in trading. Trading is not meant for the pessimist.

There is a lot of bullshit out there when it comes to trading groups, educators, forums, and etc. The fact is that trading is a skill, and you need to master yourself in order to become successful doing it.

I would personally never charge to teach something as fundamental as supply and demand, it's not an original idea by any stretch of the imagination and can be understood by anyone who does the bare minimum of research into financial markets.

I never intended to defend this guy and his teachings, I merely posted on here to debate the fact that "supply and demand isn't real" or "doesn't work" because this guy taught it. That is an illogical way of thinking. The two are separate things.

It is possible to conclude therefore that this guy did in fact scam many clients, by providing them false hope without proper guidance. However, that does not prove anything against supply and demand, and its usefulness in analyzing markets.
  • #355
  • Apr 14, 2020 7:55am Apr 14, 2020 7:55am
Quoting viptrading
I do not share the belief that trading can be "taught" in the way that most trading educators lay it out. Labeling this guy as a scammer may be the right cause of action in this case, especially if his motive was to make money from his "students" instead of selecting only a few people to mentor.
Lets not get carried away.

Labelling someone who markets unproven or unsubstantiated or even possible loss making trading courses as scam is not correct.
Marketers conducting trading courses with no care about their students trading success do not make them scammers.

I hate such marketers that exist even on this forum. But no they are not scammers as long as they don't tout false profitability claims.
Know what you trade
  • #356
  • Apr 14, 2020 8:23am Apr 14, 2020 8:23am
Quoting Phil_GMT
This is about if Sam Seiden is a real trader, not about do supply & demand zones work. Sam Seiden is not a trader (according to the article in the OP), he got customers to borrow $60k to learn from him, something he does not understand himself.
That's what I have been saying buddy. FTC says Sam Seiden is not a proven trader at all.

But trust me, don't waste your time in this thread.. so many fan girls..

This is the Lawsuit from FTC.. they probably haven't read it.

https://www.tradingschools.org/onlin...y-ftc-lawsuit/
  • #357
  • Apr 14, 2020 9:11am Apr 14, 2020 9:11am
Quoting YYZ
{quote} Absolutely. SD was on charts forever...from past, Wyckoff most famous trader up to now, was using volumes because he could not come up with nothing better also " mark up-mark down" chart analysis and that was it...Elliot , Gunn...Sam Seiden was working in Chicago mercantile, was intelligent enough to figure out what happen with price, how to trade...He came up with complete system...Those who are incapable to understand it complain...blaming someone else instead themselves. Give me specific example who did it on exactly same way as sam seiden...don't...
I have told you specifically you broken record. Institutional traders, banks traders and so on. If you don't get it, that is your problem. You are starting to being annoying.
  • #358
  • Apr 14, 2020 9:29am Apr 14, 2020 9:29am
Quoting GMD
{quote} That's what I have been saying buddy. FTC says Sam Seiden is not a proven trader at all. But trust me, don't waste your time in this thread.. so many fan girls.. This is the Lawsuit from FTC.. they probably haven't read it. https://www.tradingschools.org/onlin...y-ftc-lawsuit/
Unbelievable really, you still carp on about this. Nobody is defending Sam Seiden or OTA.
Supply & Demand is what it is, it's what moves the markets amongst other things. Economics 101.

The FTC Charges are for the unscrupulous methods used by the organisation to take money off the uninformed & gullible.
How many times must I repeat this.

I have sat through the OTA sales presentation, followed by the sales pitch and also questioned the presenters/sales staff and I wisely decided that this route was not for me. Like many people I am sure, must have also. Pressure selling & exaggerated claims should be huge Red Flags.
I did my research & due diligence. I walked away like many others, of course there are people who will be taken in.

If people were misled to part with a lot of money, then some action must be taken, which is what this FTC charges is all about.

I think in most countries, if you sell a product that does not work according to the claims of the seller, then you get an automatic refund, no quibble, and no questions asked.
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #359
  • Apr 14, 2020 9:32am Apr 14, 2020 9:32am
Quoting YYZ
{quote} Absolutely. SD was on charts forever...from past, Wyckoff most famous trader up to now, was using volumes because he could not come up with nothing better also " mark up-mark down" chart analysis and that was it...Elliot , Gunn...Sam Seiden was working in Chicago mercantile, was intelligent enough to figure out what happen with price, how to trade...He came up with complete system...Those who are incapable to understand it complain...blaming someone else instead themselves. Give me specific example who did it on exactly same way as sam seiden...don't...
You are either too lazy or a comedian.

Don't waste your time. Please add some value to this thread.
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #360
  • Apr 14, 2020 9:38am Apr 14, 2020 9:38am
Quoting Shabs19
{quote} You are either too lazy or a comedian. Don't waste your time. Please add some value to this thread.
He can't, he does not have any values. Just a lazy person.
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