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Sam Seiden Goes DOWN

  • #321
  • Apr 13, 2020 6:07pm Apr 13, 2020 6:07pm
A lot of you guys have hijacked this thread from the OP and, perhaps, advancing a different agenda.

KP
Do your homework, follow the footprints of smart money
  • #322
  • Apr 13, 2020 6:07pm Apr 13, 2020 6:07pm
Quoting Techanalyst
In a market, the more out of balance supply and demand is at a price level, the less the trading activity will be.
Quoting Winston Reed
{quote} Actually it's the opposite: When there is balance there is less trading. This is demonstrated by ranging. When price is moving quickly in one direction or the other it is out of balance and seeking balance.
Clear difference in interpretation.
Which is correct ?

Both sometimes correct, sometimes wrong.

Market is more complex and chaotic then both this suggested "regular" market behaviour.
Know what you trade
  • #323
  • Apr 13, 2020 6:16pm Apr 13, 2020 6:16pm
Quoting YYZ
{quote} Absolutely...those are Sam seiden's words either on video or power point slide...in fairness you should quote him
Nope, got this from somewhere else. Not Sam's quote. I never took Sam's course and never will. He is not inventor of this strategy, so I will not quote him in anyway whatsoever.
  • #324
  • Apr 13, 2020 6:25pm Apr 13, 2020 6:25pm
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} {quote} Clear difference in interpretation. Which is correct ? Both sometimes correct, sometimes wrong. Market is more complex and chaotic then both this suggested "regular" market behaviour.
It's not an interpretation. It's just a fact on how all markets behave. Basic economics that any 12 year old can understand.
  • #325
  • Apr 13, 2020 6:29pm Apr 13, 2020 6:29pm
Quoting Winston Reed
{quote} Actually it's the opposite: When there is balance there is less trading. This is demonstrated by ranging. When price is moving quickly in one direction or the other it is out of balance and seeking balance.
The only reason why price moves in any, and all markets, is because of the imbalance in supply and demand. The greater the imbalance, the greater the move in price.

Why imbalances occur? The currency market, the financial world in general is dominated and ruled by big investors, institutions, central banks and professional traders. They have the ability and capacity to move and change the markets with thousands of orders- These orders create the so called supply and demand imbalances.

Daily news occurs and affects the world's economies, positive news increases demand, reduces supply, leads to higher prices.
Negative news decreases demand and results in increased supply.

Smaller investors and retail traders become like a bait, the liquidity the professional traders need to fill orders. They can't sell if there is no buyers interested.
  • #326
  • Edited 6:41pm Apr 13, 2020 6:29pm | Edited 6:41pm
Quoting Winston Reed
{quote} It's not an interpretation. It's just a fact on how all markets behave. Basic economics that any 12 year old can understand.
Do you realise that by this post you are essentially calling Techanalyst illiterate below a 12 yo kid ?

You have to prove YOUR fact because perhaps the trading world missed out YOUR fact.
Are you prepared to put up a economics academic paper for peer review sir ?
Btw do you hold any formal accredited graduate major in economics ?
We all know, you have none.
Next time you post about economics state this FACT.
Know what you trade
  • #327
  • Apr 13, 2020 6:30pm Apr 13, 2020 6:30pm
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} Hey, what happened to his live streaming 40 million project? Anyone seen it yet? Wait another 100 yrs, I guess.
100 yrs or more depending on the Judge..
  • #328
  • Apr 13, 2020 6:34pm Apr 13, 2020 6:34pm
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} Do you realise that by this post you are essentially calling Techanalyst illiterate below a 12 yo kid ? You have to prove YOUR fact because perhaps the trading world missed out YOUR fact.
I actually I think techanalyst just misspoke and understands this. I don't have to prove it. It's an exceedingly fundamental and rudimentary aspect of economics.
  • #329
  • Apr 13, 2020 6:35pm Apr 13, 2020 6:35pm
Quoting Winston Reed
Something I'm looking at and that also illustrates some of the concepts I've been describing. Please understand that I don't normally label supply and demand areas at all. I'm doing it here for the purpose of what this thread has become a debated about. I instinctively recognize supply and demand and really don't usually think about it too much. So here a supply shelf can be seen. This is where sellers took it down. Demand came in with those 2 large bullish gap bars that took out the supply shelf which can now be called a demand shelf for now. It...
That is one hour chart. Try looking S&D on monthly, weekly and daily. I will attach one example. Red box supply, blue box demand. From my experience, I found by trading S&D on those higher TF's, it really works great. It does take time to reach from one level to another, but it does work. If the market is trending, it works faster, if market is choppy, there is a lot of news, you will see it move like crazy on smaller time frames, but it will get to demand or supply zone eventually.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: EURAUDWeekly.png Size: 42 KB
  • #330
  • Apr 13, 2020 6:47pm Apr 13, 2020 6:47pm
Red supply, blue demand.
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: NZDUSDWeekly.png Size: 41 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: AUDUSDWeekly.png Size: 39 KB
  • #331
  • Apr 13, 2020 6:58pm Apr 13, 2020 6:58pm
Quoting Techanalyst
{quote} That is one hour chart. Try looking S&D on monthly, weekly and daily. I will attach one example. Red box supply, blue box demand. From my experience, I found by trading S&D on those higher TF's, it really works great. It does take time to reach from one level to another, but it does work. If the market is trending, it works faster, if market is choppy, there is a lot of news, you will see it move like crazy on smaller time frames, but it will get to demand or supply zone eventually. {image}
Thanks Techanalyst but as I've said before I don't trade s/d explicitly as you are describing. In fact I'm really a swing trader with more of a background in median lines. Go figure. Price charts clearly show where buyers and sellers have been and all that one needs to do is wait and see if the buyers or sellers are still there.

Also I understand s/d traders love multi-time frame analysis. In fact MTF analysis is another mantra/dogma preached here on FF and I reject it completely. I also trade futures with tick charts and I assure you it is nearly impossible to trade using multi tick charts. It doesn't work and I don't know anyone who does it. I pick my time frame and trade it as is.
  • #332
  • Apr 13, 2020 7:02pm Apr 13, 2020 7:02pm
Quoting Winston Reed
In fact MTF analysis is another mantra/dogma preached here on FF and I reject it completely. I also trade futures with tick charts and I assure you it is nearly impossible to trade using multi tick charts. It doesn't work and I don't know anyone who does it. I pick my time frame and trade it as is.
This is interesting.

I am interested to hear your interpretation and opinion if you care to post here.
Know what you trade
  • #333
  • Apr 13, 2020 7:15pm Apr 13, 2020 7:15pm
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} This is interesting. I am interested to hear your interpretation and opinion if you care to post here.
At some point I may comment on this but my comments would definitely be subjective and opinionated and subject to intense criticism and ridicule. What I can say is my "trading education" occurred with a mentor who also rejected MTF analysis. When I stopped flip-flopping between charts with different time frames my trading vastly improved. Having said that I know some traders who make it work. C12 is one of them and he seems to do very well. Interestingly he's a supply and demand trader. But C12 has this down to a science with charts side-by-side showing clearly the best places to enter and where the targets are. If I did use MTF analysis I'd do it like he does. Go figure!
  • #334
  • Apr 13, 2020 7:20pm Apr 13, 2020 7:20pm
Quoting Winston Reed
{quote} At some point I may comment on this but my comments would definitely be subjective and opinionated and subject to intense criticism and ridicule. What I can say is my "trading education" occurred with a mentor who also rejected MTF analysis. When I stopped flip-flopping between charts with different time frames my trading vastly improved. Having said that I know some traders who make it work. C12 is one of them and he seems to do very well. Interestingly he's a supply and demand trader. But C12 has this down to a science with charts side-by-side...
I accept that your MTF post is subjective and opinionated, no problem.

I do find value about the basis why your mentor and you reject MTF analysis.

I have no idea about C-12.
Know what you trade
  • #335
  • Apr 13, 2020 7:20pm Apr 13, 2020 7:20pm
Quoting Winston Reed
{quote} I'll take a stab at it moodybot. Before I do though I think it's important to be able to objectively describe objectively a price chart without any assumptions. This is difficult for many and I'll submit it is why most are not able to trade profitably because they are stuck in their beliefs about why price did something rather than just accept that it did and move on. I'm using a weekly chart instead of the daily chart because the amount of data on the daily is a bit overwhelming. Also the price action is easier to see and explain. I'm also...

Winston, thanks for taking the time.
I tend to operate initially from D1/H4 looking for subsequent unbroken (support/resistance), (supply/demand) (Zone), or as George prefers, Herd mentality.
I prefer to use a target line rather than an area though as I find them to ambiguous and by that I mean price can enter an area, stop short then reverse leaving a partial area behind. I like to see a target taken out, for me that's it, its done.
Once a target has been taken out then price as we all know will do one of two things. I like to look for a reversal and I wait for a specific amount of time before that reversal for me is confirmed. If price blows straight through a target (zone) (area) (support/resistance)(herd mentality) then no drama, I wait for the following to be taken out.
The reason I placed the chart on the thread in reference to the Gap is because I cannot see how a natural market would stop and reverse to the pip unless there was some prior planning before hand.
At the end of the day, i think this is coming more down to terminology as to whether they are zones, targets, supply and demand etc but it's a great discussion.
Perhaps worthy of a new thread..

Cheers

M.
  • #336
  • Apr 13, 2020 7:26pm Apr 13, 2020 7:26pm
Quoting moodybot
At the end of the day, i think this is coming more down to terminology as to whether they are zones, targets, supply and demand etc but it's a great discussion. Perhaps worthy of a new thread.. Cheers M.
The contention is down to terminology that marketers exploit.

If Winston or yourself start a new thread, I bet there's good participation.
Know what you trade
  • #337
  • Apr 13, 2020 7:30pm Apr 13, 2020 7:30pm
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} I accept that your MTF post is subjective and opinionated, no problem. I do find value in the basis why your mentor and you reject MTF analysis. I have no idea about C-12.
Honestly BW judging by your posts I think you're just looking for an argument. I don't care to explain why I don't use MTF. It's only relevant to me and not to you or anyone else. You love to dismiss everything as being either subjective, opinionated or one's interpretation. I think you are seeking to dismiss certain concepts as a way to justify what sounds like some bad trading experiences inappropriately using those concepts. But that's just my interpretation, my opinion and it is very subjective. I wish you well!
  • #338
  • Apr 13, 2020 7:36pm Apr 13, 2020 7:36pm
Quoting KeenPips
A lot of you guys have hijacked this thread from the OP and, perhaps, advancing a different agenda. KP
The OP opened it up KP. Look at post 88 and 91.
  • #339
  • Edited 8:26pm Apr 13, 2020 7:37pm | Edited 8:26pm
Quoting Winston Reed
{quote} Honestly BW judging by your posts I think you're just looking for an argument. I don't care to explain why I don't use MTF. It's only relevant to me and not to you or anyone else. You love to dismiss everything as being either subjective, opinionated or one's interpretation. I think you are seeking to dismiss certain concepts as a way to justify what sounds like some bad trading experiences inappropriately using those concepts. But that's just my interpretation, my opinion and it is very subjective. I wish you well!
Looking for argument is incorrect interpretation.

I challenge every idea that's regurgitated on forum with polite language. Not due to bad experience as you suggested.
It naturally makes the poster uncomfortable and defensive.
This challenge is not a confrontation, it's purpose is to seek clarity and transparency.
People don't realise how subjective and opinionated it is when they assert them as facts.

When the poster do respond to the challenge like your earlier posts with charts and narrative explanation the world gets to see the details of merits and demerits then make their own assessment with basis. In this way it becomes beneficial to the reader. Personally, I do assimilate new points of view from the response. That's the purpose instead of useless broadbrush motherhood statements.

There is no denial that our knowledge and background education is different for every trader. This difference accounts for our subjective interpretation and opinion.
Know what you trade
  • #340
  • Apr 13, 2020 8:26pm Apr 13, 2020 8:26pm
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} Looking for argument is incorrect interpretation. I challenge every idea that's regurgitated on forum with polite language. Not due to bad experience as you suggested. It naturally makes the poster uncomfortable and defensive. This challenge is not a confrontation, it's purpose is to seek clarity and transparency. When the poster do respond to the challenge like your earlier posts with charts and narrative explanation the world gets to see the details of merits and demerits then make their own assessment with basis. In this way it becomes...
Very well BW.

I learned to trade by doing my own homework and a lot of research. After much trial and error I came across an individual/website that seemed to me to demonstrate true knowledge of markets. I never asked him to prove it nor did I ask him to show me any statements. Although I paid him he wasn't selling a system nor did I have to buy anything special like some fancy indicator. He also didn't make promises of extraordinary wealth or riches. The only thing he offered was an understanding of market behavior, movement and structure. I only paid for his time. From there it was up to me to decide how to trade.

I didn't learn by going on forums questioning everyone to prove their statements or to prove they were profitable. That is a waste of time. At some point an individual must take complete responsibility for his/her trading education. Doing this does not involve challenging and questioning everyone about the validity of their method nor does it involve asking them to prove themselves.

What it does involve IMHO is the following:
1. If you are not profitable and are jumping from one thing to another then first thing to do is try to forget everything you know about trading
2. Next you must begin a search to understand how markets move, their structure, and where buyers and sellers might reside and how the price chart reveals that. I suggest this can only be done by looking at a naked chart. Start with the bars, then the waves/swings etc. etc.
3. I suggest such an individual who is trying to learn should dismiss indicators completely as they distract one from truly learning how markets behave.
4. When searching for a mentor or a place to learn look for one that is only asking reimbursement for their time and nothing else. Their teachings should be based on learning how markets behave. If they are selling you a system, an indicator or if you must buy additional material or anything suspicious that is only a way to get more of your cash then leave them.

Having said that I have exposed a couple of frauds in this forum not because I cared how they traded but because I knew they were frauds and abhorred that they were taking money from others. Sam Seiden is an example of a fraud but not because any of the concepts he hijacked and pushed erroneously are invalid but because he publicly displayed fraudulent evidence of profiting using those concepts that he distorted.

Finally one thing one can do to start is look at a low time frame chart. Even one minute charts. Price is fractal so the movements on a 1 min or 3 minute chart are no different than on an hourly or H4 chart. Clear your mind of what you know and just observe. Don't dismiss individual bars or candles. This is essentially how many trade futures because they are usually tick charts and can move quite rapidly.
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