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  • #1,152,241
  • Mar 23, 2019 10:59am Mar 23, 2019 10:59am
Quoting Igrok
{quote} retail players mostly play within their dealer's house walls... they are just betting on the direction and do not participate in the actual market...
It doesn't matter. Retailers are statistically distributed almost equally on both sides: buyers and sellers
If Big Dog will dump the market, half of the retailers will win by default !
Member
  • #1,152,242
  • Mar 23, 2019 11:00am Mar 23, 2019 11:00am
Quoting palpite
{quote} What i said, not is ilegal.
That type of info you mention is illegal if it creates an edge against retail traders.
They don't risk illegal things, Palpy! Why would they? The gain against us is minor for them
Member
  • #1,152,243
  • Mar 23, 2019 11:04am Mar 23, 2019 11:04am
Quoting TudorIoan
{quote} Come on, Igor, even if they know exactly everybody's positions, that doesn't mean the all retail will be bullish and all crooks will be bearish! So a good part of retail will be succesful following the big sharks without being aware of
not necessarily... you've got to understand that this is the game of cat and mouse...those orders ( whether stops or limits) are not carved in stone...they can be changed or cancelled at any moment... sometimes, in order to get a better buying price, I was placing stops below the market also asking my dealer to let everyone around know about them... when I saw that someone got in the mood for hunting them down by pushing the market lower (usually it's possible during the hours of slow market and low liquidity) then I was just cancelling my stops also simultaneously taking a long position at better prices... I know, this practice is also prohibited now but it's still hard to prove in court as a trader definitely has the right to change his mind at any given moment...
  • #1,152,244
  • Mar 23, 2019 11:05am Mar 23, 2019 11:05am
Quoting TudorIoan
{quote} 1. I don't think they risk too much to get illegal info. 2. Even they get that info, is not helping too much to rob retialers as long as many other retailers will win without being aware what just happend 3. Big Sharks are not after our retail little money ...they are after another big shark's money
We can't put orders in the market, only our brokers. So the brokers will put only the orders will exceed.
Together we can be strongest
Vantage Return This Month: na
  • #1,152,245
  • Mar 23, 2019 11:07am Mar 23, 2019 11:07am
Quoting Igrok
{quote} not necessarily... you've got to understand that this is the game of cat and mouse...those orders ( whether stops or limits) are not carved in stone...they can be changed or cancelled at any moment... sometimes, in order to get a better buying price, I was placing stops below the market also asking my dealer to let everyone around know about them... when I saw that someone got in the mood for hunting them down by pushing the market lower (usually it's possible during the hours of slow market and low liquidity) then I was just cancelling...
Agree, Igor! It's a cat and mouse game.
But everybody is equally involved in this game.
Big banks included! ...see where is YOU?
That makes it even!
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Member
  • #1,152,246
  • Mar 23, 2019 11:10am Mar 23, 2019 11:10am
Quoting palpite
{quote} We can't put orders in the market, only our brokers. So the brokers will put only the orders will exceed.
In that case brokers cheat. But we already know that
Member
  • #1,152,247
  • Mar 23, 2019 11:15am Mar 23, 2019 11:15am
Quoting TudorIoan
{quote} That type of info you mention is illegal if it creates an edge against retail traders. They don't risk illegal things, Palpy! Why would they? The gain against us is minor for them
No, we not appear in the market. Our broker appear in the market and we are part of the broker. If all of them have access of this information, this not is illegal.
Together we can be strongest
Vantage Return This Month: na
  • #1,152,248
  • Mar 23, 2019 11:17am Mar 23, 2019 11:17am
Quoting palpite
{quote} No, we not appear in the market. Our broker appear in the market and we are part of the broker. If all of them have access of this information, this not is illegal.
Yes, not illegal, but not useful either.
Member
  • #1,152,249
  • Mar 23, 2019 11:17am Mar 23, 2019 11:17am
Quoting TudorIoan
{quote} In that case brokers cheat. But we already know that
Yes
Together we can be strongest
Vantage Return This Month: na
  • #1,152,250
  • Mar 23, 2019 11:19am Mar 23, 2019 11:19am
Quoting palpite
{quote} Yes
In this case we must be insane to stay in this trading FX business
Member
  • #1,152,251
  • Mar 23, 2019 11:22am Mar 23, 2019 11:22am
Quoting TudorIoan
{quote} Agree, Igor! It's a cat and mouse game. But everybody is equally involved in this game. Big banks included! ...see where is YOU? That makes it even! {image}
nope... I bet you're wrong on that assumption... I have never seen a really rich dealer, for example... of course if to compare their wealth with some exceptionally gifted traders and/or hedge funds principals... Peter Crudass from CMC Markets, perhaps the richest owner of a dealing company, is worth just under a billion after being the sole owner for over 25 years of his business... and this is because their abilities to make money are limited by their clientele total losses only... dealers are still unable to make money in real speculative trading... they just don't have enough brains within the company in order to make money in real speculative trading... they know that and therefore never even try to do that... same with the majority of the banks... the market is an equal opportunity environment for everyone...
  • #1,152,252
  • Mar 23, 2019 11:28am Mar 23, 2019 11:28am
Quoting Igrok
{quote} nope... I bet you're wrong on that assumption... I have never seen a really rich dealer, for example... of course if to compare their wealth with some exceptionally gifted traders... Peter Crudass from CMC Markets, perhaps the richest owner of a dealing company, is worth just under a billion after being the sole owner for over 25 years of his business... and this is because their abilities to make money are limited by their clientele total losses only... dealers are still unable to make money in real speculative trading... they just don't...
You mean banks don't compete against each other in the market??? How can one buy this?
Member
  • #1,152,253
  • Mar 23, 2019 11:28am Mar 23, 2019 11:28am
Quoting TudorIoan
{quote} In this case we must be insane to stay in this trading FX business
Yes, we are.
Together we can be strongest
Vantage Return This Month: na
  • #1,152,254
  • Mar 23, 2019 11:29am Mar 23, 2019 11:29am
Quoting palpite
{quote} Yes, we are.
I had a slightly guess about that
Member
  • #1,152,255
  • Mar 23, 2019 11:34am Mar 23, 2019 11:34am
Quoting TudorIoan
{quote} You mean banks don't compete against each other in the market??? How can one buy this?
The big players don't stop to fight between them. And the the best of them is who can hide better the position of the others players. When he have 1 big amount in your hands of course.
Together we can be strongest
Vantage Return This Month: na
  • #1,152,256
  • Mar 23, 2019 11:34am Mar 23, 2019 11:34am
Quoting TudorIoan
{quote} You mean banks don't compete against each other in the market??? How can one buy this?
there is no competition in the market... at all... it's like an ocean... everyone can go out there and make his best try to catch a fish... but the majority doesn't know how to succeed... therefore 60% of the transactions are now made by robots as people in general on all the levels are too dumb to do just that...
  • #1,152,257
  • Mar 23, 2019 11:37am Mar 23, 2019 11:37am
long term zero sum gane. if banks make money. who lose？
Be a spectator, not a player
  • #1,152,258
  • Edited 12:00pm Mar 23, 2019 11:44am | Edited 12:00pm
Quoting Igrok
{quote} there is no competition in the market... at all... it's like an ocean... everyone can go out there and make his best try to catch a fish... but the majority doesn't know how to succeed... therefore 60% of the transactions are now made by robots as people in general on all the levels are too dumb to do just that...
Come on, bots use strategies and startegies are made by humans... That doesn't prove the robot supremacy
There's an ocean, alright, ...but people lose money because it's only a 50-50% chances and we become gamble addicts pushing the risk very high.
There's nothing to know.
Casinos, Betting Houses, and Brokers will always win ...they don't need to do nothing, no scheme needed ...
...they just need to let us play happily this funny up-and-down game
Member
  • #1,152,259
  • Mar 23, 2019 11:48am Mar 23, 2019 11:48am
Quoting wiserltz
long term zero sum gane. if banks make money. who lose？
Deutsche Bank lost huge and Lehman Bros. were wiped out when the suprime crisis ...yes, that was trading, ...trading triple AAA mortgage assets
...but they fight on FX markets daily as well, but not with so radical consequences
Member
  • #1,152,260
  • Mar 23, 2019 11:51am Mar 23, 2019 11:51am
look, colleagues... when in 2015 Swiss National Bank had unexpectedly cancelled its CHF selling policy lots of FX dealers went down the drain... same very day lots of major banks had also suffered serious losses because of that... but such a thing was easily predictable from the very beginning as no line in the sand can ever be protected in the market forever... any more or less experienced trader with 100 points IQ had to know that in advance... but they all failed to see that coming... from my opinion this is the best indicator that all the "big guys's" traders and all the personnel of all the dealing companies, that went under waters that time. were as dumb as an average market newbie...
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