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The Loneliness of the Long Distance Trader

  • #101
  • Nov 17, 2018 6:42pm Nov 17, 2018 6:42pm
Quoting Chake
{quote} Agreed! Al I'm saying is: make sure it will not cost you your family and friends, it is not worth it. {quote} Skyway, although I hear what you are saying and have expierienced something similar a few times, in my opinion you are to negative. I have been encouraged a lot too and have a lot of people who think it is great what I'm doing. Maybe that's why I am saying I don't want to loose family/friends while trading.
And what is the alternative? To make it cost you your precious life? If you must become a trader then every moment spent doing something else is a disservice to yourself. If you were born to trade then stop playing tea party and get to work.
"The fun is in the hunt. Not the kill."
  • #102
  • Nov 17, 2018 8:12pm Nov 17, 2018 8:12pm
Quoting Chake
{quote} Yeah we disagree, in my world real friendship is giving and taking (more giving then taking usually ) You have a choice: give time to trading or to your friend, if you decide to give all your time to trading the friendship will fade, not because the friend was not real but because you did not invest your time in it anymore. The above also counts 1:1 for love, it takes time and energy to sustain a good relation, time you have to share with your passion for trading. Endlesshope asked: is it worth it. My advise is: don't throw away the...
I am quite jaded, but in a jovial kind of way, and I need to say this.

I have been flat broke, broke, and less than broke. I completely disagree that money cannot buy you a wife, kids, friends, and family. It very much can and does. The idea of "true" love and friendship is very nebulous. Think I'm lying? If you have a wife, quit your job and decide you are going to become an ordained priest. Got "true" friends? Better not pick up any socially unacceptable habits that you did not have before.

Everything and everyone has a price. Even if it is only time.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #103
  • Nov 17, 2018 8:14pm Nov 17, 2018 8:14pm
Quoting Chake
{quote} Yeah we disagree, in my world real friendship is giving and taking (more giving then taking usually ) You have a choice: give time to trading or to your friend, if you decide to give all your time to trading the friendship will fade, not because the friend was not real but because you did not invest your time in it anymore. The above also counts 1:1 for love, it takes time and energy to sustain a good relation, time you have to share with your passion for trading. Endlesshope asked: is it worth it. My advise is: don't throw away the...
Unfortunately for you... You're up against men that have already lost or sacrificed those things.
"The fun is in the hunt. Not the kill."
  • #104
  • Nov 18, 2018 4:54am Nov 18, 2018 4:54am
Quoting Redeflect
{quote} And what is the alternative? To make it cost you your precious life? If you must become a trader then every moment spent doing something else is a disservice to yourself. If you were born to trade then stop playing tea party and get to work.
Inspiration worthy advice...

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  • #105
  • Nov 18, 2018 9:27am Nov 18, 2018 9:27am
What are you willing to give up for 3-5 years so you can put yourself well on the path towards reaching your goals? Give up video games? Hanging out at the nightclubs? Social time? Sure your friends will probably hate you for doing it but not for the reasons you think. Most will hate you because you are doing what they know they should be doing but aren't. They are scared that you will become successful and leave them behind. In most cases, that is a good thing. It lets you know you are on the right track. Tell people at work that you are trying to lose weight. Within a few days, magically donuts will appear, or a cake or sausage biscuits, etc. Whether they realize it or not subconsciously they are trying to keep you at their level. Fear of loss is the greatest motivator there is.

Sure, trading is a lonely game. But, so what. Like with anything you are learning in the beginning it will take a ton of your time and you will suck at it. Get over it. Put the time in and eventually you will become more efficient and better at it and you will begin spending less time trading and more time doing other things. Personally, based on how most people I know act, the loneliness is a blessing. No bs, no drama, no games. Just me and my trading. Phone off, headphones on focused on the screen and what is happening here and now.

To be successful at anything you must become comfortable with being uncomfortable. You cannot learn to swim by dipping your toe in the water, you HAVE to jump in. Someone may show you how to swim, but you must eventually start trying yourself. I bet even Michael Phelps looked awkward trying to swim when he was young. But he put in the time and effort and now he has a room full of medals to prove it.
  • #106
  • Nov 18, 2018 10:21am Nov 18, 2018 10:21am
I trade according to the economic calendar (only major releases) and it doesn't affect my life in the slightest, I can trade while I work without any issues. I think technical trading is a hell of a lot more time consuming during the day but fundamental research does consume at least 2 hours in the evening albeit at my discretion.
  • #107
  • Nov 18, 2018 12:11pm Nov 18, 2018 12:11pm
Quoting MasterJedi
{quote} Hi Cat, correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think it's regarded as simple spreadbetting if you eventually make a living from trading. If you have another job but make regular moderate profit from trading then you might be taxed for capital gains only. But if you trade full time then I think your profits will be taxed as income like any other professional. Cheers.
Under UK tax law, profits from spreadbetting are exempt from Capital Gains Tax. It is however a grey area depending upon how much you make and whether it is your full time occupation. If in doubt for your particular circumstances, it is best if you contact an accountant who is familiar with this area.
  • #108
  • Edited 1:06pm Nov 19, 2018 12:54pm | Edited 1:06pm
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} I am quite jaded, but in a jovial kind of way, and I need to say this. I have been flat broke, broke, and less than broke. I completely disagree that money cannot buy you a wife, kids, friends, and family. It very much can and does. The idea of "true" love and friendship is very nebulous. Think I'm lying? If you have a wife, quit your job and decide you are going to become an ordained priest. Got "true" friends? Better not pick up any socially unacceptable habits that you did not have before. Everything and everyone has a price. Even...
You made me laugh big time Jim, love the way you put it and I wish I could do that in English too, but that's out of my league.
It is true when your character and habits change completely the friends and family have a hard time to follow you, but if they see you are having a good reason why you changed I know the true love/friend can follow if they are willing to do the effort.
But that's why I said a relation is giving and taking, if all you do is taking (quit job, become a priest without an agreement with your wife over it) offcourse it will cost you your loved ones, but you know it isn't that black and white in real live.
Money can buy you a wife? sure it can, but will she love you or the money? If she does not "really" love you, why have her? Going to the red light district here in Amsterdam is way cheaper then having a wife LOL.
Persistence will get it. Consistency will keep it.
  • #109
  • Nov 19, 2018 1:04pm Nov 19, 2018 1:04pm
Quoting Redeflect
{quote} Unfortunately for you... You're up against men that have already lost or sacrificed those things.
I know and I have had my fair share off live too Redeflect, but I'm not really up against anyone, this is just the way I see things, I value love and friendship for what they mean to me.
I keep repeating myself: becoming rich is not worth it if it will cost you your wife/family/friends, because they are priceless to me!
It's a personal thing.
Persistence will get it. Consistency will keep it.
  • #110
  • Edited Nov 20, 2018 1:35am Nov 19, 2018 11:09pm | Edited Nov 20, 2018 1:35am
Quoting Chake
{quote} You made me laugh big time Jim, love the way you put it and I wish I could do that in English too, but that's out of my league. It is true when your character and habits change completely the friends and family have a hard time to follow you, but if they see you are having a good reason why you changed I know the true love/friend can follow if they are willing to do the effort. But that's why I said a relation is giving and taking, if all you do is taking (quit job, become a priest without an agreement with your wife over it) offcourse it...
What makes you think your wife loves you and isn't just settling? For all you know she's still waiting on someone to come along and offer her a way out while reassuring her that you deserve the divorce.

When the money goes they go. Women, in particular, want the shortcut.

Perhaps I too am jaded. But it's less risky than being rose-tinted.
"The fun is in the hunt. Not the kill."
  • #111
  • Edited 4:41am Nov 20, 2018 3:31am | Edited 4:41am
Quoting Redeflect
What makes you think your wife loves you and isn't just settling?
Welcome to the human race...

Yes -- it would be nice to know what everyone is truly thinking -- but that's not the way it works. "Not knowing" is part of life -- "not knowing" what is going to happen tomorrow, "not knowing" if your kid is going to grow up to be a doctor or serial killer, "not knowing" if you are your wife's true love...

For better or worse, that's the way life works and that's what we've signed up for. I'm not saying I don't also struggle with this shit -- just that I have no misconception this is the way it is supposed to work. And you ask "why is it supposed to work that way?" The answer: the way things are, is the way they're supposed to be. And how do I know that? Well -- try making the way things are different than the way things are -- you can't. So -- sit back and try to make the best of the ride...

By the way -- when I say "sit back" I don't mean to do nothing or to give up -- of course not. It's really important to ALWAYS, ALWAYS do your best. What I meant about making the best of the ride is that the present is the present -- can't change it. Things might be different the next moment, or maybe not. But if you always put your best foot forward then there are no regrets -- I guess that's the point -- no regrets.
  • #112
  • Nov 20, 2018 4:13am Nov 20, 2018 4:13am
Thanks, CAT for starting such an interesting thread. a true trader must be enjoying every post.
  • #113
  • Nov 20, 2018 4:46am Nov 20, 2018 4:46am
Quoting msqtrader
Thanks, CAT for starting such an interesting thread. a true trader must be enjoying every post.
Thanks msq, it certainly has kicked off a few interesting discussions hasn't it?
  • #114
  • Nov 20, 2018 5:14am Nov 20, 2018 5:14am
I have been a silent reader of this thread for some time, and I am very thankful to Cat for reminding everyone that trading is, of course, a means to (try to) make money, but for those who devote vast amounts of their lives to it, it is a journey about discovering, and hopefully accepting, who we are.

Almost every time a trade fails, is it not us who projected our own desires into what the next movement should be instead of seeing what the charts tells us?
By extension, almost every time a relationship (or a project) ends in drama, is it not the result of realizing the other person (or the reality) is not what we fantasized he/she was?

The human brain is programmed to anticipate, forecast, imagine. That what separates us from other living beings and gives the comfort we enjoy. We have the capacity to alter reality to the extent of our abilities.

However, we have to accept that we can't change everything and we must accept what we cannot change. That goes with life, that goes with other people, and that goes with trading unless you have billions.

To me, trading is about growing up as a person and learn to respect the market the same way we have to respect each other. We can refuse to participate in the market, the same way we can refuse to participate in a relationship of any kind, but not understanding our limits, taking unreasonable chances, and thinking we can change what we can only accept is a path to bitterness and sometimes madness.

I believe stoicism is probably what a trader needs to succeed, and as far as I am concerned, it is also stoicism that humans need to be content in their lives.
  • #115
  • Nov 20, 2018 10:02am Nov 20, 2018 10:02am
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Invest in Life
  • #116
  • Nov 20, 2018 10:52am Nov 20, 2018 10:52am
Quoting Redeflect
{quote} What makes you think your wife loves you and isn't just settling? For all you know she's still waiting on someone to come along and offer her a way out while reassuring her that you deserve the divorce. When the money goes they go. Women, in particular, want the shortcut. Perhaps I too am jaded. But it's less risky than being rose-tinted.
Jaded? well that's an understatement.
I think you are lucky not many women read your comment, they would tear you to pieces LOL

As for your question, why do i think she loves me? that's easy, you could have extracted that from my posts yourself.
It's the sacrifices man, the "giving more then you take" part.
Persistence will get it. Consistency will keep it.
  • #117
  • Nov 20, 2018 12:04pm Nov 20, 2018 12:04pm
Quoting Chake
{quote} Jaded? well that's an understatement. I think you are lucky not many women read your comment, they would tear you to pieces LOL As for your question, why do i think she loves me? that's easy, you could have extracted that from my posts yourself. It's the sacrifices man, the "giving more then you take" part.
Yeah, I once was taught that as well. Until I discovered that the value of sacrifices given and taken is entirely relative to time, place, and strategy. There's no easy way to find this out.
"The fun is in the hunt. Not the kill."
  • #118
  • Edited 4:08am Nov 22, 2018 3:09am | Edited 4:08am
Quoting darko2010
and as far as I am concerned, it is also stoicism that humans need to be content in their lives
@darko2010 -- I really liked your post. And I'm hoping for some additional guidance. According to the dictionary the definition of stoicism:
"...the endurance of hardship without complaint...". But, come on, complaining is half the fun. And if I shouldn't complain, then I hope it's still okay to feel sorry for myself. I mean, otherwise, why get up in the morning? (I'm kidding...)


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  • #119
  • Nov 22, 2018 4:55am Nov 22, 2018 4:55am
Quoting darko2010;11715191 [B
but not understanding our limits, taking unreasonable chances, and thinking we can change what we can only accept is a path to bitterness and sometimes madness.[/b]
Great post darko, but limits should not be something any of us should be factoring into our journey, neither is an inability to change that which we know needs changing.

Taking an unreasonable chance? There are two ways of defining this with regards to trading, the first is our decision to become traders, which, if we look at the odds against us becoming successful, means that the very first step we make is by taking an unreasonable chance, which makes us all guilty.

Second is the act of engaging the markets with our money, which applies to any of us only if we are doing so without the requisite knowledge and skills to be able to do so, not imaginary or contrived, but real, based on trial and error and proven results which give us the motivation and confidence necessary to put on trades knowing that the odds of it being a winning trade are in our favour, however slight the margin, because anything less is a pure gamble.

Returning to limits and change. I love cycling, always have done, and whenever I go for as ride, I push myself hard. Yes there are limits because no matter how much I may aspire to do so, I am never going to win the Tour de France, and that I totally accept, but there are no limits to my own enjoyment, self-improvement, or rewards.

The same applies to anything, including trading. Just because we fail or are failing does not mean that we have reached our limits of achievement, or if it does, why even bother to continue? There is always room for improvement, even though this can be blocked by our own doubts and psychological weaknesses, which leads us on to your other point about thinking we can change what we should only accept. What should we accept? That we are losers? That we will never figure this game out? Only if we have explored every avenue, examined every fibre of our body and soul, made all the changes we feel we can make, should we accept defeat and move one, but who reading this has ever done that?

There is success within us all, of that I am 100% certain. We just have to know how to find it.
  • #120
  • Edited 5:50am Nov 22, 2018 5:30am | Edited 5:50am
Quoting cat
...but limits should not be something any of us should be factoring into our journey...
I think you are taking his use of the word "limits" too literally. Knowing and accepting one's limits not only frees you to experiment but also enhances your enjoyment and chance for success. "Understanding our limits" does not mean to not try something new or not to push yourself -- it simply means to be truthful with yourself.

Take your cycling example -- you say you know you'll never win the Tour de France -- i.e. you do understand your limits, which (I believe) is precisely @darko's point. As a result, when you cycle and continue to improve your times then you get enjoyment and satisfaction. On the other hand, if you hadn't yet accepted you weren't going to win the Tour de France then you would always be disappointed with your times because they wouldn't compare with the world's cycling champions.

I think it is precisely because we do accept limitations that we can enjoy recreational activities that have professional equivalents. So, yes, go for it -- but also be cognizant of your capabilities and keep expectations in check.
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