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  • #1,481
  • Sep 18, 2018 1:07pm Sep 18, 2018 1:07pm
Quoting dispersion
{quote} Good job, similar results in my excel lists, I guess two similar calculations point to the right solution
Hi dispersion

Many thanks friend. Still a long way before I can place a buy or sell order.

@urusit
"The rotation index/Quadrant Close , is calculated using data from the 4 and 8 profile. Since the 5d profile is consider to be the short tf. So the RI calculation using 4d will tell us if we have internal trending or rotation inside the 5d profile. The 8d is used for same way for the larger tf (10d+)."

This is gold.

@Mzega
I am confuse about the last calculation "RI = (RRI (sum/16))-4/12. This one (RI = RRI (Raw Rotation index) -4 )/12) I do understand.

Lets give RRI a value eg. 8

RI = RRI(8)-4/12 = 0.333

The last calculation:
RI = RRI ((8)/16))-4/12 = -0.29166666

Kind regards
Elroy
  • #1,482
  • Sep 18, 2018 1:12pm Sep 18, 2018 1:12pm
Now, will someone define what it means......... when we refer to QC= Quadrant of close.
Will someone now explain the context in which it is used?........What do we mean by QC?
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #1,483
  • Edited 1:43pm Sep 18, 2018 1:30pm | Edited 1:43pm
Kelo, the matrix has to be normalized, otherwise the result is not exact,that's why it's divided by 16.


=(U3/16)-4/12



I propose a telegram group to see our progress

https://t.me/joinchat/IskkvxFWbatKWMpuGq2V6Q

Saludos
  • #1,484
  • Sep 18, 2018 1:54pm Sep 18, 2018 1:54pm
Quoting urusit
Kelo, the matrix has to be normalized, otherwise the result is not exact,that's why it's divided by 16. =(U3/16)-4/12 I propose a telegram group to see our progress https://t.me/joinchat/IskkvxFWbatKWMpuGq2V6Q Saludos
My understanding is, when you divide the sum(RRI) with 16, then it is before normalization. When you normalized, its when you take the sum(RRI) minus with 4, divide it with 12. Like the article shows it.

RI = RRI(15)/16 = 0.9375 (before normalized)
RI = RRI(15)-4/12 = 0.9167 (after normalized)
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: normalized.jpg Size: 50 KB
  • #1,485
  • Sep 18, 2018 9:22pm Sep 18, 2018 9:22pm
Quoting urusit
Kelo, the matrix has to be normalized, otherwise the result is not exact,that's why it's divided by 16. =(U3/16)-4/12 I propose a telegram group to see our progress https://t.me/joinchat/IskkvxFWbatKWMpuGq2V6Q Saludos
Let me clarify............I use the method of "normalization" you see in the article below........

If you "normalize" this way......in this case you divide by 16..........

RI= 15/16= .9375
RI = (15/16)= 0.9375 (before normalization)

NRI = RI - (1- RI) x 0.25
..................0.75

NRI = RI - (1- .9375) = .0625 (.0625/.75) = .0833 x 0.25 = 0.02083
....................0.75 ..........0.75

NRI = RI (0.9375) - 0.02083 = 0.9167 (after normalization)
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: complete.JPG Size: 134 KB


If you "normalize" using the method in the example below sum-4/12.....in this case of "normalization" you do not divide by 16.....
2 different sources (article and book) that have different methods of "normalization", it really doesn't matter what method you use, just as long as the Result is "normalized".
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: vbpt.JPG Size: 95 KB
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #1,486
  • Sep 19, 2018 4:03am Sep 19, 2018 4:03am
Good day people

Instructions for Quadrant close, see attached.

Kind regards
Elroy
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: QC2.jpg Size: 26 KB
Attached Image
  • #1,487
  • Sep 19, 2018 4:04am Sep 19, 2018 4:04am
New findings, Quadrant close formula in excel. If anyone have a better formula/command, please share. I am still working on the Lookup command.

Kind regards
Elroy
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: QC.jpg Size: 99 KB
  • #1,488
  • Sep 20, 2018 6:18am Sep 20, 2018 6:18am
Quoting mzvega
Now, will someone define what it means......... when we refer to QC= Quadrant of close. Will someone now explain the context in which it is used?........What do we mean by QC?
My Take

To avoid repetition: Quadrant[only when bracketing] -> https://www.forexfactory.com/showthr...1#post11222111

QC would be whichever Q the Close is located at.
  • #1,489
  • Sep 25, 2018 9:27am Sep 25, 2018 9:27am
Just a reminder that I do not respond to AMVA questions sent in PM's………to avoid having to post the same answers more than once…..and so everyone can learn from the questions being asked………..

"Anyway before i'm asking anything i'm going to explain what i believe is the correct way to apply AMVA.
First thing we need to know if the market is in balance, to see that we need to examine overlay demand curve of 20, 15, 10, 5 days, balance condition is found in profile if close price is inside a single distribution,distribution is find when we found more than 4 contiguous tpo with at least 3 tpo deep for profile that are < 10 days, else we need 5 tpo deep."

I am not sure what that even means? Can you or anyone else show us exactly what that is supposed to mean? Can anyone show us exactly how to determine if a overlay is balanced (bracketing) or not. What is the "Rule" regarding "Balances and why?.................
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #1,490
  • Sep 25, 2018 9:45am Sep 25, 2018 9:45am
This is covered from post 1104.
https://www.forexfactory.com/showthr...482744&page=56
  • #1,491
  • Sep 25, 2018 9:52am Sep 25, 2018 9:52am
What is the "Rule" regarding "Balances and why?.................
will someone please provide the proper "Context".
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #1,492
  • Sep 25, 2018 10:07am Sep 25, 2018 10:07am
You have 1 distribution with a Upper limit(UL) and lower limit(LL) that contain 3tpo's and the close is inside the UL and LL.
  • #1,493
  • Sep 25, 2018 10:19am Sep 25, 2018 10:19am
I am not interested in a simple "description"……..the "description" does not explain the "context" in which it is used. What is the "Rule" and why does this "Rule" exist……….
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #1,494
  • Sep 25, 2018 10:32am Sep 25, 2018 10:32am
The rule exist because, these limits form the alerts for a breakout. And that is the beginning of the trend. And when it trend you want to trade, because markets don't turn on a dime.
  • #1,495
  • Sep 25, 2018 11:35am Sep 25, 2018 11:35am
Quoting mzvega
I am not interested in a simple "description"……..the "description" does not explain the "context" in which it is used. What is the "Rule" and why does this "Rule" exist……….
We begin by a simple examination of the structure of markets in general. Markets move in waves, from high to low and low to high etc., continuously. The time to complete a wave varies from wave to wave. One cycle might be 10 days and the next can be 30 days in a completely irregular manner. Likewise, the amplitude from top to bottom of a wave varies widely. For instance from April 7 to September 2003 for the SP there were 5 complete waves. The number of days per wave varied from 13 days to 28 days. An example of wave dates and their amplitude illustrates the irregularity.

Wave High Low Period H-L Amplitude Apr 7 900.00 Apr 11 865.50 28 34.5 May 15 945.30 May 20 913.50 18 31.8 Jun 17 1015.60 Jul 1 960.50 18 55.1 Jul 14 1014.30 Jul 21 973.60 13 40.7 Jul 31 1003.70 Aug 6 958.50 26 45.2 Sep 9 1034.60
In this short run (under six months), wave periods varied by over a factor of two. In the earlier months of 2003 the variation in period was a factor of three. Such variations are found in all markets. We conclude that markets show little regularity. A consequence is that 'smoothing', as with moving averages, is on a slippery slope indeed since there is no general smoothing value (e.g. the 14 days in Wilder's book on technical analysis). These results play a major role in the general ineffectiveness of technical analysis based on moving averages and oscillators. However, we are primarily interested in the support lent to the market unit studies by this look at market variability. Market unit analyses flesh out our bare-bones study of market waves.

A market unit of an auction market is defined by the markets progression: from the start of a balance, to the end of the balance (breakout), through a trend phase and then back to the start of the next balance. Balance, or short term equilibrium, is a non-directional, volatility dominated time period. Breakout from the balance initiates a directional, or trend, phase. As the trend decays, a new balance initiates the next unit. The market over time is merely the conjoining of the separate market units as they evolve. Balances and trends are market defined and hence market units have neither a standard time period nor a standard amplitude for their trends. Market condition (balancing or trending) is a local descriptor of the current state of the market and defies generalization (e.g. the previous market unit was ten days, so this one will be around ten days). Knowing where you are within a market unit is imperative to the trader. Inside the balance you are dealing with non-directional volatility. In the trend, market movement is dominated by directionality, with volatility secondary.

The market unit is the fundamental element of market structure. It is the primary element of information for market understanding. As a market unit develops, the first phase, balance, arises out of the dying trend. Then, breakout from balance signals a potential change in market condition from balance to directional. The directional phase includes any trending and the prelude, consolidation, to end of trend. As the market returns to non- directionality, the balance phase of the next market unit begins.

Market units break a market into discrete pieces. Each piece follows it's own scenario; spending time in balance and then being driven in the directional phase.

The Balance Phase
A balance may may be completed in a few days or may continue for many days or weeks. Over time, the balance range (support/resistance) may change slowly as the market responds to low level changing demand. A surge in demand will cause price to exceed the balance limits, causing a breakout.

The Directional Phase
Increasing demand drives the market directionally, e.g. in a trend. During the directional phase support/resistance is poorly defined. As the buying/selling pressure decays the trend loses steam and price movement slows. This effect is measurable as an increase in congestion. Directional markets often pass through several such slowings (pauses) until the final congestion grows into a new balance.
  • #1,496
  • Sep 25, 2018 11:37am Sep 25, 2018 11:37am
I am looking for the explanation and the context found in the source material……..
Here's a clue………..what does the source material say?

How do you know if your answer is correct or not if you didn't learn the rule by studying the source material?

If you didn't read about it in the source material……….how do you know If you are applying something in the wrong/right "Context"…………..

What is the "Rule" and why does this "Rule" exist……….
According to the source material……..what does the source material say………………………...
Your answers should be accompanied by the actual source of the information……..

Otherwise you're just "guessing"( or assuming)………..

What is the "Rule" and why does this "Rule" exist……….
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #1,497
  • Sep 25, 2018 11:59am Sep 25, 2018 11:59am
Quoting mzvega
Just a reminder that I do not respond to AMVA questions sent in PM's………to avoid having to post the same answers more than once…..and so everyone can learn from the questions being asked……….. "Anyway before i'm asking anything i'm going to explain what i believe is the correct way to apply AMVA. First thing we need to know if the market is in balance, to see that we need to examine overlay demand curve of 20, 15, 10, 5 days, balance condition is found in profile if close price is inside a single distribution,distribution is find when we found more...
Hi mzvega,

I did not know about private messages, in any case I will try to rewrite the questions I asked you with the help of google translate.

My question related to the application of the AMVA methodology. What exactly are the steps to be taken to understand when to buy or sell?

From what I understood by reading all the material on the topic and the cisco website, the first thing to check is that the instrument in question is in equilibrium.

How do you know if an instrument is in equilibrium? An instrument is in equilibrium when a 5-day overlay has a single distribution and the closing price is within the limits of this distribution. The distribution in an Overlay is determined by the tpo count for the overlays <10 they need 3, otherwise they count 5.

Why do we need to know that the instrument is in equilibrium? Because having this information we know that reference points are decipherable and understandable and in balance we found value, to find balance we need at least 3 day overlay.

Once we know that the instrument is in equilibrium, we analyze the overlays of 20, 10, 10, 5, 3 days to understand the condition of the market where it was and where it is at this moment.

Having done this we analyze the reference points of the last 3 days in what is called market flow, these references are divided into 2 categories, one that determines the direction and one that determines the activity of the market, based on these 2 categories then we reach a final conclusion of the market direction.

Once we see that the market has a certain directionality and activity is increasing and if the price of the previous day has closed off the distribution limits that are in the overlays we have a setup to buy or sell.

This is in short what I understand of how AMVA applies.

Also I came across the cisco site in a report called "Market Condition Report" and I wanted to understand at what time it is used and what is its purpose? it seems very similar to the market flow table.

Another question concerning meta profile, to determine the distribution and its limits, we use the technique described on MOM in appendix 1 right?

I hope I have been clearer.
In case my interpretation of the method is wrong, advice are welcome or better references to where I can find an answer to my doubts.

Daniele.
  • #1,498
  • Sep 25, 2018 12:08pm Sep 25, 2018 12:08pm
Quoting urusit
{quote} We begin by a simple examination of the structure of markets in general. Markets move in waves, from high to low and low to high etc., continuously. The time to complete a wave varies from wave to wave. One cycle might be 10 days and the next can be 30 days in a completely irregular manner. Likewise, the amplitude from top to bottom of a wave varies widely. For instance from April 7 to September 2003 for the SP there were 5 complete waves. The number of days per wave varied from 13 days to 28 days. An example of wave dates and their amplitude...
Great post……………
There is a point in the balance-imbalance (directional) phase/cycle at which balance begins and ends.
You need to first understand the "Rule" for determining "balances" and how they develop. You need to understand "why" the rule exists and the context in which is used
Before you can measure/track the " market unit" ( balance-imbalance (directional) phase/cycle you need to understand the basic "Rule" of balances first……………….
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
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