Auction Market Value Theory & Analytics

Hi Mzvega,
first of all, thank you for sharing your experience
I'm new to the forum, but now i'm studying AMVT, and I want to learn...

Some time ago I began to study forex market, I started from the formula x*y=z, where x,y,z are for example eurgbp, gbpusd, eurusd.
The math tell us that in every moment the price of eurusd is the product of eurgbp*gbpusd, but also the product of euraud*audusd... and so on.....as we can see in the attached images there are many relationships between currencies.
The 3D graph show us the non linearity.
We also know that the formula x*y=z become linear when one of the variables is constant.

Now the question:
1) is correct to say that this is an example of non linearity of the market?
2) is correct to say that when the currency "x" is bracketing then the market become linear?

Thank you

You want me to believe your study of correlations between currency pairs results in a hyperbolic parabolic surface area, which show the nonlinearity of the market? Are you for real?

The 3d graph you posted are not the results of a study of correlations between pairs , it has nothing to do with nor is it representative of the currency pairs you posted underneath it. You didn't create that graph using the correlation/relationships between currency pairs.

The hyperbolic paraboloid is a doubly regulated surface so it can be constructed from straight lines. Because of its appearance, it is also called saddle surface .

Correlation movements between currency pairs and hyperbolic parabolic surface areas have nothing to do with Supply and demand……..being A NONLINEAR FUNCTION OF PRICE

I don't know how you make the jump from correlation between currency pairs to hyperbolic parabolic surfaces………..Neither, have anything to do with the topic of the thread.

How? You posted an image of currency pairs……..and you want me to believe that the image of a hyperbolic parabolic surface area you posted is the make believe results of this correlation study.................you insult my intelligence

And you still don't know the definition of a Bracket or the "context" in which it is used?
please don't ask me any more questions unrelated to the topic of the thread
I'm finding it difficult to take what you say seriously or at face value
I encourage you to read the thread before posting to it…………..

Thank you for your reply, Mzvega
....it was just a doubt about correlation between pairs and its relationship with AMVT.
I'm trying to understand why for some time I stopped to loose money, but my balance remains flat...maybe poor money management or misunderstanding of the phase of market in terms of market unit...
I keep studying

cheers

Good day guys.

Please help with an excel formula.

whathaveyoutried.com

Good day

Thanks for your reply Mzvega. Anyone else, to help a non software developer with an excel formula?

What have you tried?

Let me rephrase and change few words so that "non software developers" understand……………………..

If you’re a developer/Anyone and you’re about to ask another developer/Anyone a technical question (on a forum, via email, on a chat channel, or in person), you’d better be ready to answer the question “What have you tried?”

This of course isn’t specific to software developers, I’m (sadly) quite sure that it applies to your own industry too, whatever that might be.

The thing is, there’s a disease in the software development/FF world; a sort of sickness. It’s an unusual sickness in that it’s often not something you acquire once you actually join the industry (like greying hair, caffeine addiction and an ulcer), but rather it’s something that new recruits already have when they arrive.

Now, a quick clarification before I continue: when I say “new recruits”, I don’t just mean graduates and other young people. There are those who will say that this sickness is a product of modern western education systems, and that things were perhaps better back in the day. Maybe that’s true and maybe it’s not, but I’m not qualified to say and that isn’t the position I’m putting forward here anyway. The illness I’m talking about seems to apply to both young and old alike.

The illness, of course, is a flawed approach to solving problems. Here’s an example, which is an actual quotes from a web forums:

Good day guys. Please help with an excel formula
Or
I want to display a image from the website Can anybody please provide me the code?
If anybody having sample program please give me.

So where’s the problem? It’s not in the quality of English (it’s reasonably evident that English may not be this person’s first language, and that doesn’t matter as long as the intent is clear - which it is). It’s not in the punctuation and grammar, because those things again aren’t particularly important in this context as long as they don’t become barriers to understanding what’s being asked.

The problem is that this person’s problem-solving technique is to ask for the solution. Not to seek advice on how to approach the task, or a link to an example - but to just ask for the code, fully formed and ready to go. This is not problem solving, and excel is entirely about problem solving.

This is an issue we all see constantly (and I don’t mean having trouble making HTTP connections). There’s an entire class of PEOPLE whose first and final tactic when given a problem to solve is to simply ask for the completed solution elsewhere, commonly on web forums or other suitable help channels. This goal is reasonable and quite normal.

What isn’t normal is the unwillingness (I hesitate to say inability - because after all, very few things are truly, fundamentally “hard” if you apply sufficient thought and effort) to achieve that goal by a process of self-education, honest attempts . This process in turn equips you better to handle the next challenge, and sooner or later you find that:

1. there are entire sets of familiar problems to which you already know the answer and can approach with confidence; and:
2. you’re quite capable of approaching unfamiliar problems by generalizing your current knowledge and conducting some simple focused research.

This isn’t some trick of software engineering; this is the entire process of learning how to do anything at all.
It’s not a secret handed out at institutions of higher education, it’s just how things work: you begin with a lack of understanding about a topic, and a need to solve a problem in that topic area. The honest, sustainable means of doing so is to improve your understanding. This is achieved by:

 

1. Formulating a question which, when correctly answered, will improve your understanding in some way; then:
2. Attempting to answer it.

Note the second step above. To argue that grabbing the completed solution in some way satisfies this process is laziness and intellectual dishonesty, and probably renders you unworthy of being helped. For after all, why should someone else do your work for you?

I’ve had a lot of personal experience with people displaying this troubling unwillingness to learn or research or try. Me personally, am a Trader/Quantitative Analyst, I am not a freelance teacher. People who can do something to whatever extent ought to help others who wish to be able to do the same; surely that’s a fundamental truth and indeed a desire for all of us.

But this is real life, and no principle comes without the consideration of certain realities. Help may be free for the most part, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a cost-benefit ratio to be considered. My benefit may come from a warm fuzzy feeling rather than cold hard cash, but if you’re wasting my time then you’re not going to seem as worthy as someone who genuinely wants to learn.

Here’s a secret: willingness and desire to learn are the true qualifications.

Not ability; we all have differing innate and developed levels of ability to acquire certain skills. Some (probably most) of these can be improved with practice, and some can’t - and it’s wrong to pigeonhole or generalize a person’s ability in an entire discipline just because of their seeming difficulty in one particular aspect of that discipline. But if you want someone to spend time and effort (especially if it’s time they’re giving freely), then you’d better earn it.

Earning it isn’t about throwing a few units of currency at your teacher, and it’s not even about successfully completing your task - it’s about bloody trying. And trying is what so many of the people I’m talking about seem bizarrely unwilling to do. So, of course, many of us ignore them. Problem solved, right? Wrong.

There’s a huge knock-on negative effect of the proliferation of this unwillingness to make the effort to solve problems yourself. People who are in a position to help stop frequenting the chatrooms, forums. “Bad signal to noise ratio”, they say, with some justification. The losers are the genuine (by which I mean well-meaning, willing-to-learn people who just happen to be new to a particular area) These people have a reduced chance to get meaningful guidance because of the effort involved in working out who’s a lazy time-waster and who isn’t.

This is an awful thing, and it’s never been more relevant - since logically, platforms which are young and/or experiencing a surge in popularity are exposed to this phenomenon the most. There are fewer people who are genuinely experienced, the average level of experience is less, the amount of help being requested is higher, and there’s a far higher proportion of lazy, types mixed up in it all.

So, if you’re going to ask a technical question, I guess the first thing I have to say to you is: Great! You’re asking a question, and that means we have a better than even chance that you want to learn something. That’s usually awesome, and I stand ready to salute you.

But wait. Have you considered - really considered - what it is you’re about to ask? Is this the right time to ask, or can you take one more step first, which might either make your question clearer (good) or even unnecessary (probably better)?

Try taking a few minutes to run through these points:

1. Have you broken the question or problem down sufficiently to really ask something concrete? you can pretty much divide problems into the two categories of (1) things that can be broken down further, and (2) things you already know how to do or can look up trivially.
2. Is your problem the sort of standard question for which there’s definitely already some sample code and documentation available? There’s no programming language that doesn’t tell you how to read the contents of a file. Skim the documentation, or do a quick search. If your problem is that simple, the answer is probably just moments away. You can find it!
3. Try searching the web. This is glib advice, I know, but stay with me. If you’re having trouble getting a decent result, you need to narrow things down. What might be even better is finding a site that’s specific to the language or technology you’re working with, and searching there. Someone else has probably asked your question - or maybe a hundred someones.
4. Whoever made "excel's language" also created a bunch of sample code; really, they did. It’s designed to help you get on your feet with various common tasks, and there might be some code that does at least some of what you want to do. It’ll take you only a few minutes to check, and at the very least you can grab a load of code which will come in handy at some point in the future.
5. Use "excel's" online reference or other built-in documentation. "Excel" has a documentation browser. You’re going to find something that’s helpful almost every time.

OK, you’ve gone through those steps and tried at least a few of them. I can now finally say congratulations. Either you’ve solved your own problem (great), or you are now officially ready to be helped.

When I ask you “what have you tried?”, you can say with confidence that you’ve tried all that stuff above, and you can tell me anything promising you found, or you can say that you’ve at least come up empty honestly. I’m going to help you at this point, because I can see that you want to learn and that you’re willing to work for it, and so I want to help you.
That’s the key realization. When you’re asked “what have you tried?”, it doesn’t mean “show me the code you’ve written, or piss off”. What you have to do is at least try to help yourself - and the trying is the important thing.

Not just for avoiding pissing off someone who would otherwise be willing to give freely of their valuable time to help you, but actually for your own development. Do it enough times and the number of questions you’ll actually have to ask will start to go down. You’ll also be in the position to help others, and that way everybody wins.
So next time you’re considering asking a question, you’d better be ready with a convincing answer when you’re asked “What have you tried?”
If your answer amounts to “not a lot”, take my word for it: the next question you get back will be “then why should I help you?”……………….

I apologize that I didn't feel you had much need for my assistance as you hadn't even attempted to place the data in excel, I didn't see any of the formulas in an excel spreadsheet you were finding difficult to solve .

How can I help/assist you with an excel formula, you yourself haven't attempted to write?
Unless you meant that I "do it for you".

Your response to my question ………..."What have you tried?"
is to ask someone else

I'm sure "Anyone Else" will be here shortly to assist you

Can anyone on this thread explain Meta levels to me?

What is a "Meta level"?
Can you tell me or show where in this thread the term "meta level" is used? Or the context in which it was used here?
Is there a published resource in which the term "meta level" is used in AMVT?

An overlay Demand Curve is a Demand Curve
It has price on the vertical and quantities on the horizontal.
It is a Non linear data structure, incompatible with a price chart


Mql4 is a linear Environment
Receiving Price Data in Indicators & EA's you have to pass the data through an Array. A linear Data Structure
Only data of the same type (linear data structure) can pass through an array.


Supply & Demand Curves & Overlay Demand Curves are both Nonlinear Data Structures
They both use Price and Quantities, 2 variables of different types makes it 2 dimensional (nonlinear equation)

You cant pass a non-linear two dimensional data structure through a 1 dimensional data array.


On overlay is an accumulation of TPO's at each traded price
A tpo is a product/made/combination of both "price and time". To calculate a tpo you would need to reformat/redefine/recast both mql4 "time & price" variables

It sounds logical that you could create a custom indicator/library using mql4/5 syntax to do this…..many will lead you to believe they have…….I'll tell you why you can't…….because both price and time are "predefined variables" in mql4


Predefined variables are constant and cannot be changed from a mql4-program
Predefined variables cannot be defined in a library. A library uses such variables that are defined in program from which this library is called.
https://docs.mql4.com/predefined

Predefined variable name cannot be used for identifying user-defined variables
Pasted from <https://book.mql4.com/variables/predefined>

Syntax
As to the syntax, THE MQL4 language for programming trading strategies is very much similar to the C++ programming language, except for some features:

1. no multiple inheritance.

Pasted from <https://docs.mql4.com/basis/syntax>

Mql4 is only capable of linear functions & equations, Mql4 can't calculate tpo's because it does not allow you to reformat/redefine/recast the variables Price and Time

Like I said demand curve & price chart are completely incompatible charts.
Mql4 cant calculate tpo's , nor can it pass non-linear two dimensional data structure through a 1 dimensional data array.
It is not possible to use mql4/5 syntax to build multiday Overlays.

What Bandung did was use a different programming language from within mql4 to recast price and time data into a "market generated format" and "references" and placed the data into csv/text files. The data is still nonlinear (not a series or sequence)………you still can't get/use mql4/5 syntax to do anything with it. The best you can do is float an image of the file above the chart or read the file on to the chart. Borrowing Space.

It is not an indicator in the context that
The main principle underlying custom indicators is passing values of indicator arrays to a client terminal (for drawing indicator lines) via exchange buffers. Buffer is a memory area containing numeric values of an indicator array.
Pasted from <https://book.mql4.com/samples/icustom>

It is not an indicator in the context that it builds the Overlay by passing parameters of OHLC series data (candlestick data) into an indicator array

It is an indicator in the context of a way and means to plot/display the contents of a csv/text file on to the chart. Period

The data is placed in text files (using a different programming language) because the data is nonlinear(not a series or sequence) Mql4/5 cant calculate a tpo's, let alone pass them trough an array. The data is still "nonlinear" you can't get mql4/5 to do anything with the data in the files. Because it still is not a series or a sequence which can pass through a linear array.

You can not construct an Overlay by passing parameters of OHLC series data (candlestick data) into an indicator array. It has no relationship nor is it representative to the OHLC candlesticks you see on the chart.

The idea that you can pass the data in the files to an expert advisor is a JOKE, the data is still nonlinear.
The idea that these files can be used/passed as parameters in an mql4 EA is programmatically FALSE.

Bandung the creator of the mql4 tpo profiles explained the profiles are NOT REPRESENTATIVE of the candlesticks beneath it
He posted a chart showing/explaining that to overlay/merge profiles, they can't be plotted "on the chart". He showed the profiles aren't built from the candlesticks on the chart, they are NOT REPRESENITVE or COMPRISED of the candlesticks directly beneath the profile............

Quoting mima
somehow doesnt fit in period separator neither when asia is set to 0 nor when is set to -5...

Quoting bandung
it will not. whataver chart timeframe you use, it will always have the same profile width. the indicator only rent a space on your chart.
maybe Bilstein's Post here can explain about it better.
Pasted from <https://www.forexfactory.com/showthr...56#post5335356>

Quoting mima
Thank you for reply...What I meant is that I expected that each profile starts at 0:00...for each day for daily profile...doesn’t matter width...and consequently weekly profile to start at beginning of each week...etc.

Quoting bandung
unfortunately it can't be done, at least by now.
because there is an option to split profile into periods or split profile into its session (when v1.31 released), which make it hard to do what you mean.
for example pls take a look at attached image.
this is daily profile with splitted session, if each profile started at its daily separator line then will be overlap each other.
Pasted from <https://www.forexfactory.com/showthr...56#post5335356>


There is a REASON you don’t see "Candlesticks" displayed on my chart……….Because they are not REPRESENTATIVE of the Overlay floating above it.

They are 2 incompatible charts
Mql4 chart has price on vertical and time on the horizontal
Overlay Demand Curve has price on the vertical and quantities on the horizontal

Price charts and Supply & (overlay)Demand Curves
2 completely different animals…….
Placing one on top of another does not mean either one is representative of the other.

An Overlay is a frequency distribution (Non-linear)
Overlay Demand CURVE and price charts/graphs are incompatible with each other.
Due to mt4 limitations, the best you can do is float an image/graphic of a text/csv file on top of the chart. Each time the chart moves to the right adding a candlestick, the image of the text csv file repositions its self above it. Hence to name "Overlay".


This indicator borrows/rents space on the chart Just as the "Overlay Demand Curves" do. The candlesticks underneath are not representative of the graphic panel floating above it, nor is the OHLCV time series data or PA of the candlesticks passed as parameters used to create the display. There is no direct relation between the graphic image floating above the chart, and the candlesticks directly beneath

Underneath the indicator it looks like price is trading in a channel, price bounced off the upper and lower limits of the indicator , did it not? The indicator looks like a "channel" of prices. That’s what it looks like. So does that mean you can you can/should create a EA based on this indicator by calculating a channel? Of course you wouldn't.
The Overlay is of the same type, it is an image/graphic of a file floating above the chart………..

I've gone over this……over and over again……..AMVT doesn't give a $h!t about the prices/candles on the chart and neither should you.

The profile is dynamic, only the far right is in sync with the indicator! The profile is just using space on the chart. I dont know how else to explain it. This is one of the most frequent questions asked. If you read the thread you may find one of the other explanations, more understandable.
Pasted from <https://www.forexfactory.com/showthr...59#post5354959>

The candles aren't going to match the same areas as the profile graphic (no matter what settings you use)………………………………………….
The indicator is only using (borrowing) space on the chart……… it's independent of the candles on the chart. Only the current candle is in sync. the candlesticks represent PA (noise). When you change tf's you can see the PA (noise) changes dramatically But no matter what tf your looking at Value remains constant. AMT is about trading Value not price. I am guilty of leaving the candles showing on my charts, but I am aware that all the candles to the left of the current candle don’t represent the same areas as the profile graphic, its dynamic.
Pasted from <https://www.forexfactory.com/showthr...75#post6340475>


If you understand what a tpo is (I’ve given many examples) you know it’s not volume. Its frequency of prices “used” over time. Not at “chronological time” points. Frequency of prices “used” over time is not bound to, or governed by “chronological time”.

AMVT does not use “at time data”. A volume profile is governed by “chronological time”. Which makes it an unacceptable practice in AMVT.

The creator of the indicator tried over & over to explain. Everyonewants or expects this data to be plotted to start at a specific times, because they think a TPO chart is the same as a volume “at price “histogram” it’s not. Frequency data can’t be plotted on a “time series chart” (bar chart) the nature of the data doesn’t allow it.

Follow the conversations, “the indicator only rents\borrows” space on your chart”. Nothing else.

2012 http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...56#post5335356
2012 http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...32#post5335532
2011 http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...00#post5227800
2013 http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...75#post6340475
2012 http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...59#post5354959

What part of it is so hard to understand? Only using (renting/borrowing) space on the “chart” as a place to display frequency data that's been calculated elsewhere. You can’t plot frequency data “at price” using a times series chart governed by chronological time. That's why you generally need to use a different "charting package".

The profiles are floating “on top” of the chart, not built “at price”. Even the creator of the indicator, tries to explain, it’s not a “volume at price histogram” (volume profile). They have long since run him off from the thread…………….

It’s now 2014 and the topic arises again. How many years have gone by, they still, haven’t read the thread, they still haven’t read any book on the subject in it’s entirely, if they had they wouldn’t be under the false impression that a “volume profile” has something to do with AMVT. Any “at price” data is not an “allowed practice” in AMVT. Theory doesn’t permit it……..but you can’t tell them that…………
Pasted from <https://www.forexfactory.com/showthr...46#post7466346>


Quoting Matheuzera
Hi. This analysis can be used in larger frames times? How can such H4 ? I have a full-time job and can not keep up with the market intraday. Thank you in advance .

It doesn't matter what chronological time frame you look at, the data remains the same.......
The data isn't built from the chart as with TA indicator's, the data from the chart is converted to a 2 dimensional format, it is just borrowing mt4 as a place plot the data, since it is not "of" the chart, it has to float on top. it has nothing to do with the bar chart. It is just borrowing space.
Pasted from <https://www.forexfactory.com/showthr...66#post8642366>

I think you might be under the impression that that MT4 has a data feed for the references . There is no feed. The profiles can't be calculated using chronological, time series (bar charts). For that you would need a different type of charting software like sierra.

They beauty of Bandung's indicator is the calculations are done "in memory". Rather than plotting the data on an "offline chart", it borrows space on the live chart. It "floats" on top of the chart, it is not "made" or "built" from the bar chart. The only thing on the bar chart that matches the profile is the current price. There is no mt4 data feed for the references. A profile cant be built using chronological time series/ bar charts as you would an indicator which measures price to price data. You cant use price to price data to plot price over time. in this case it is plotted in memory.
If this doesn't answer your question, I have no clue.
Pasted from <https://www.forexfactory.com/showthr...64#post9030264>

"They beauty of Bandung's indicator is the calculations are done "in memory".
And placed in csv/text files ……..which mql4/5 can't do any thing with………. because the data in the files is not a series or sequence, which can not be passed through an array to be used as parameters for an indicator/EA

I dont think you have a full understanding how Overlay profiles are constructed.

MT4 charts are built & plot OHLC time series data. The use of OHLC candlesticks & bar charts are non permitted practices in Auction Market Value Theory. The OHLC data has to be reformatted into a price*time format. Then displayed on the chart. It is not made up of objects plotted using linear time series data (OHLC). All profiles use price*time format it does not plot linear time. The indicator display is floating on top of the chart. It is not made "of" the chart. It floats above it. As each new candle appears, the chart moves one step closer to the right edge of the screen. Since the indicator is not plotted on the chart it just repositions itself above it.

This is not a volume indicator. VP uses tick volume from OHLC data. Tick volume using OHLC is not a true representation of tick volume at price. Even if you use 1 minute OHLC the tick volume reported is for a range of prices (the 1 min range from H-L) A 50 pip 1 min candle reports tick volume for the whole 50 pip range. Not tick volume at each individual price. It is a misleading and a misrepresentation of the data being plotted. Thats why VP's cant handle multiple multiday profiles without taxing CPU's.
Pasted from <https://www.forexfactory.com/showthr...04#post9475504>

Dear MzVega,

really neat explanation on how Mql4 is only able to express things in a linear fashion. You have a very nice way of explaining things logically and step by step, so that the reader can follow your thought process very well. Thank you for that.

I have a question regarding your post #1139. Under the "Home Course Study" section you posted a link to the Homestudy Short- and Long Course Lessons:
https://web.archive.org/web/20150330.../hlessons.html

Unfortunatley all the lessons are password protected and I am not able to access nor download them, but would obviously love to read the materials. I was just wondering if you might be in possession of these lessons and could make them available somehow?

I am sorry that I digressed from the recent topics of the thread. Thanks a lot in advance.

Best wishes!

Hello, could you please share these materials again?

Pasted from <https://www.forexfactory.com/showthr...quote=10733410>

And you posted…….


You already have the lessons………..
And there is no "Daily Market Data" to download anymore. So a password is unnecessary.

Hello everyone, first of all I want to thank all the participants of this thread, it is wonderful, I have already read MOM and VBPT, I am starting to do the BD, and my first analysis that I will publish shortly, I would thank TraderFox if I could upload new file from the Cisco website since the link does not seem to go.
Thank you very much to everyone for opening our eyes to those of us who are lost.

The entry is a bit late, I still have to adjust the alerts.
Greetings.

I'm an Excel developer but you need to spell out what you're looking for.

I understand that you want to look for this formula @JR97.

Saludos