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  • #13,121
  • Apr 19, 2018 3:08am Apr 19, 2018 3:08am
Quoting Exodus
I have a program to reduce my cholesterol level and to keep my immune system in tip-top condition: I regularly donate blood. {quote} The trouble with many analyses is that the human time frame is used as a metric. Also there is not a lot of data from more than a few hundred years ago. You don't have to go back very far to discover that poor diet and a lack of understanding of disease-transmission (or even any understanding of what disease is) were the main causes of death. Some horrendous statistics have surfaced. Today the life expectancy...
Giving blood regularly reduces your risk of CV disease and stroke by something like 80%. Too much iron in the blood is very damaging. I wouldn't worry much about cholesterol levels; that is another pseudo science thing. Facts are that healthy people actually have higher levels of cholesterol than people with CV disease. Cholesterol is good stuff, you need it!
  • #13,122
  • Apr 19, 2018 3:26am Apr 19, 2018 3:26am
Quoting jmn5611
I would be on the side that protects the government
Which government? Holland's (and others') testimonies would support the idea that the assassination was a coup d'etat. In other words, a legitimate government replaced by a not-so legitimate government. Facts or the obfuscation of such is what helped enable this. So which government is it that you talk of when you say that you, Would be on the side that protects the government?
  • #13,123
  • Apr 19, 2018 3:54am Apr 19, 2018 3:54am
Quoting simond2002
{quote} Which government? Holland's (and others') testimonies would support the idea that the assassination was a coup d'etat. In other words, a legitimate government replaced by a not-so legitimate government. Facts or the obfuscation of such is what helped enable this. So which government is it that you talk of when you say that you, Would be on the side that protects the government?
I would be on the side of the government of the USA.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #13,124
  • Apr 19, 2018 4:08am Apr 19, 2018 4:08am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} I would be on the side of the government of the USA.
So if you and I were having this conversation in 1964 you would be on the side of LBJ's government of the USA, which supported the Warren Commission's findings, yes or no?
  • #13,125
  • Edited 6:17am Apr 19, 2018 4:46am | Edited 6:17am
Quoting simond2002
{quote} So if you and I were having this conversation in 1964 you would be on the side of LBJ's government of the USA, which supported the Warren Commission's findings, yes or no?
Absolutely. Not a perfect system by any means that we have, but it is the best in the world.

Simond, I am glad you liked my answer, I would like to provoke further debate. You see, there is no such thing as a sovereign state outside of the West. WWI and II, as well as colonization is what shapes the maps we have today. Leftists like to argue about sovereign states, but they are states who cannot do the basics like protect their borders, their resources, or their people. Do these states have the right to exist?
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #13,126
  • Apr 19, 2018 4:56am Apr 19, 2018 4:56am
Quoting Winston Reed
{quote} The Japanese are experiencing increases in all the aforementioned diseases as Western dietary practices infiltrate their culture. I cannot speak with any authority to Italian and French dietary practices or their incidence of disease. My comments and observations are in fact related to American culture and dietary dogma. The food pyramid per the US essentially promotes low fat, low red meat and high carbs. In the US the abundance of simple unhealthy and nutritionally devoid carbs is largely responsible for the fairly recent (last 50-60 years)...
This Italian village came up in an interesting program I saw a couple of years ago. (https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/scientists-key-to-longevity-italy-acciaroli-centenarian-mediterranean-diet-a7230956.html)
It was later featured in the tabloids in less detail but all the same it takes very little to compare the eating and lifestyle habits of these folk and those of our own.
I have made a number of changes in eating habits simply by watching reading and having a desire to live a healthier lifestyle than one that I could easily sink into.
Not being overweight only comes from a desire to not be overweight, there is no other excuse I can accept.
Nobody is forced to go to a fast food establishment to eat, nor to fill the shopping trolley with anything other than healthy foods.

The more society tries to give fat people labels they can use to stay fat, the more people will stay fat and like a cancer these "excuses to be fat" will spread to new generations leaving them little chance to live a fit and healthy life.
The shame is there is always someone who immediately fights against this simple statement. It is these people who are the problem, not the individuals who start to gain weight unconsciously. Unfortunately for them they are bombarded by the "excuse fraternity" contaminating their mind and from that moment there is little hope for the poor individual.

All we can pray for is that new generations will eventually rebel against this fraternity thats makes excuses for them to have an unhealthy life, just because that same group were to weak to do something for themselves or to weak to be honest.

Thankfully I have started to see a little evidence of such rebelling in a few 20 somethings I know and I pray for the rest to be enlightened.
  • #13,127
  • Apr 19, 2018 5:21am Apr 19, 2018 5:21am
Quoting jen101
{quote} Why are the Japanese not fat? They eat a lot of carbs (rice). The French eat shed loads of white bread and Italians a lot of pasta. Strange then that Americans beat all the western world on CV disease, diabetes, obesity, bowel cancer and reduced life expectancy. No coincidence then that Americans consume many times more calories than most. I'll stick with my "unhealthy" Mediterranean / French / Japanese diet eating little meat, some fish, but lots of fresh veg and carbs. BTW, I have a BMI of 18, RHR of 60, BP 110/65 and body fat of 13.5%....
Wow good statistics, I suspect the "101 excuses to be fat Fraternity" would tell you how lucky you are to have a skinny gene, oh and a fast metabolism, oh and lucky you missed out on all of those naughty thyroids that make you fat, oh and lucky that you never had to take those nasty medicines that make you fat and oh..........
I think we get the message.
There certainly wouldn't be any of that fraternity commending you on your disclipline to eat the right stuff, or your discipline to not feed your face so fast your brain didn't get the chance to receieve the message that oh f*ck i'm full, or the discipline to walk off / use up the calories you took in instead of wallowing around in front of the TV whilst (oh look there's a packet of crisps left open) let me just finish them off before I have my chocolate bars and my Ben and Jerry's that I got in especially for tonight's film.
If only they would hold up people who are fit and healthy as models and say look you can all be like this person and here's how ...
Oh shit I think I just painted a picture of the sixties and seventies :-)
  • #13,128
  • Apr 19, 2018 6:29am Apr 19, 2018 6:29am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} Do you ever worry about renal function due to a diet very high in protein?
It's not necessarily high in protein. Paleo as written about and practiced by Mark Sisson is a remarkably normal diet. It is just devoid of processed carbs, wheat and grains. Otherwise it contains animal protein like meat, chicken and fish and all the vegies you want. Low sugar fruits are allowed. Dairy products are limited to kefir, whole milk (raw if you can get it), butter, eggs. No low fat products.
  • #13,129
  • Apr 19, 2018 6:33am Apr 19, 2018 6:33am
Quoting Winston Reed
{quote} It's not necessarily high in protein. Paleo as written about and practiced by Mark Sisson is a remarkably normal diet. It is just devoid of processed carbs, wheat and grains. Otherwise it contains animal protein like meat, chicken and fish and all the vegies you want. Low sugar fruits are allowed. Dairy products are limited to kefir, whole milk (raw if you can get it), butter, eggs. No low fat products.
So this diet is basically a simple one, the more additives, the less food it is.

Another one I have heard is that, if it is white, don't eat it.

I once read the label of a double cheese burger I got from Mickey D's. I never ate that again.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #13,130
  • Apr 19, 2018 6:38am Apr 19, 2018 6:38am
Quoting jen101
{quote} I was talking of the traditional Japanese diet, not McD's. How about Hindus? They are mostly vegetarian and eat a lot of carbs. How about wartime Britain? Meat was scarce and carbs were relied upon to fill you up. No obesity then. It really is that simple, eat too many calories than you need, in whatever form, be it from meat, fat or carbs and you will get fat. You cannot blame it solely on carbs! However, I do believe that everyone is different. Once after a good session at the gym, I had a salad with fish. No carbs. In the evening I had...
I'm not blaming it all on carbs. Never said that. It is the false paradigm that a low fat/high carb diet is good for you. Your description of how you felt after having a muffin is very telling. Your body is addicted to carbs. You get a high when you eat a high carb meal like a muffin. Individuals who eat predominantly carbs have programmed their body to prefer carbs over fat. When I first went paleo I had to train my body to burn fat rather than carbs. Some do go through a withdrawal type event but I didn't. I embraced it and now it's just natural. Also a diet devoid of processed carbs and grains (animal food as far as I'm concerned) is just naturally low in carbs. It is not necessarily high in protein.
  • #13,131
  • Edited 7:01am Apr 19, 2018 6:45am | Edited 7:01am
Quoting jen101
{quote} Giving blood regularly reduces your risk of CV disease and stroke by something like 80%. Too much iron in the blood is very damaging. I wouldn't worry much about cholesterol levels; that is another pseudo science thing. Facts are that healthy people actually have higher levels of cholesterol than people with CV disease. Cholesterol is good stuff, you need it!
There is zero scientific evidence that giving blood reduces you risk of CV disease and stroke by 80%. Too much iron in the blood is damaging but this is related to a very specific condition called hemochromatosis where some individuals just absorb too much iron. In this case removing large amounts of blood from the body is the treatment. These individuals however cannot donate their blood. You are right about cholesterol and it fits in with what I have been talking about. However a very high cholesterol level which may be associated with hyperlipidemia can be dangerous.
  • #13,132
  • Apr 19, 2018 6:53am Apr 19, 2018 6:53am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} So this diet is basically a simple one, the more additives, the less food it is. Another one I have heard is that, if it is white, don't eat it. I once read the label of a double cheese burger I got from Mickey D's. I never ate that again.
The diet is really not so simple in terms of variety. It is full of variety. It's just that most people have turned to convenience when it's time to eat. Again I highly recommend picking up Mark Sisson's material. He has just published his first magazine and is on newsstands now. It is a great primer into understanding how un-cultish it really is and how much sense it really makes. Most who have read it have light-bulb moment and develop an understanding of how unhealthy most people really eat. Doesn't mean they change their habits because depending on how you live and who you live with such a change is likely to be rejected by carb addicted children who want their pancakes/syrup and high sugar cereal with low fat milk, etc. etc. When my grandson visits now he knows he's getting bacon and eggs. No cereal, pancakes or anything similar in our house. LOL.
  • #13,133
  • Apr 19, 2018 7:48am Apr 19, 2018 7:48am
Quoting Winston Reed
{quote} I'm not blaming it all on carbs. Never said that. It is the false paradigm that a low fat/high carb diet is good for you. Your description of how you felt after having a muffin is very telling. Your body is addicted to carbs. You get a high when you eat a high carb meal like a muffin. Individuals who eat predominantly carbs have programmed their body to prefer carbs over fat. When I first went paleo I had to train my body to burn fat rather than carbs. Some do go through a withdrawal type event but I didn't. I embraced it and now it's just...
I said that everyone is different. I don't have protein cravings at all, like I know some people get. My body prefers carbs and veg over protein. Nothing wrong with that. To call it an addiction is likening it to something like crack cocaine and I find that comparison rather strong. There is nothing wrong with eating carbs and I am walking proof that it is an entirely healthy way to eat, as are also billions around the world.

Anyhow, eating grains is far more sustainable for the majority of people in the world than eating meat.
  • #13,134
  • Apr 19, 2018 7:56am Apr 19, 2018 7:56am
Quoting Winston Reed
{quote} The diet is really not so simple in terms of variety. It is full of variety. It's just that most people have turned to convenience when it's time to eat. Again I highly recommend picking up Mark Sisson's material. He has just published his first magazine and is on newsstands now. It is a great primer into understanding how un-cultish it really is and how much sense it really makes. Most who have read it have light-bulb moment and develop an understanding of how unhealthy most people really eat. Doesn't mean they change their habits because...
You talk of processed cereal laden with sugar and low fat milk?! Is that what you see or are you really being facetious? Are we talking about the same carbs here? I am talking of porridge made with oat milk (no sugar), bananas, granary bread, pasta with sauces made with lots of veg, homemade muesli with nuts and seeds (no sugar), brown and white rice. I do not touch processed. Processed is the biggest culprit.
  • #13,135
  • Apr 19, 2018 8:24am Apr 19, 2018 8:24am
Quoting jmn5611
Simond, I am glad you liked my answer, I would like to provoke further debate. You see, there is no such thing as a sovereign state outside of the West. WWI and II, as well as colonization is what shapes the maps we have today. Leftists like to argue about sovereign states, but they are states who cannot do the basics like protect their borders, their resources, or their people. Do these states have the right to exist?
You mistake me, jmn. I liked your post but not necessarily for the answer you gave. What I like is that you have acknowledged you're not interested in facts. It gives a little more context to your, You're a conspiracy theorist, and various other platitudes.

Sure, we can debate other stuff but as I've already stated you'll need to change your vernacular. I don't deal in terms like, Left, Central, Right etc.
  • #13,136
  • Apr 19, 2018 8:26am Apr 19, 2018 8:26am
Quoting simond2002
{quote} You mistake me, jmn. I liked your post but not necessarily for the answer you gave. What I like is that you have acknowledged you're not interested in facts. It gives a little more context to your, You're a conspiracy theorist, and various other platitudes. Sure, we can debate other stuff but as I've already stated you'll need to change your vernacular. I don't deal in terms like, Left, Central, Right etc.
Facts are relative Simond, the reality is that no matter what your supposed facts are, you have no power to enforce them.

Quoting simond2002
{quote} You mistake me, jmn. I liked your post but not necessarily for the answer you gave. What I like is that you have acknowledged you're not interested in facts. It gives a little more context to your, You're a conspiracy theorist, and various other platitudes. Sure, we can debate other stuff but as I've already stated you'll need to change your vernacular. I don't deal in terms like, Left, Central, Right etc.
The latter part of your post is valid, so let us get down to the brass tax. Those with power, and those without power.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #13,137
  • Apr 19, 2018 8:36am Apr 19, 2018 8:36am
Quoting jen101
{quote} You talk of processed cereal laden with sugar and low fat milk?! Is that what you see or are you really being facetious? Are we talking about the same carbs here? I am talking of porridge made with oat milk (no sugar), bananas, granary bread, pasta with sauces made with lots of veg, homemade muesli with nuts and seeds (no sugar), brown and white rice. I do not touch processed. Processed is the biggest culprit.
I have mentioned several times "processed carbs". If most just avoided these they would be much healthier. However going paleo requires avoiding all grains such as wheat, corn, buckwheat, sorghum, oats etc. etc. So pasta and bread made of these are taboo. (we make bread and other similar with coconut and almond flour). Grains have a deleterious effect on the gut causing it to become "leaky" allowing harmful proteins into the blood stream. In addition grains must usually be processed to make them digestible by humans. However making them so digestible also results in them having the effect of being highly absorbable thus raising blood sugars temporarily. Their is scientific evidence that this temporary increase in blood glucose levels results in the release of endorphins creating the "high" effect I spoke of earlier. Not too mention intermittent spikes in blood sugar creates inflammation which now days is thought to be the underlying cause of CV disease.

Anyway I'm not trying to change what anyone does but in my every day life I often encounter individuals struggling with their weight and health. If receptive some are astounded to find out how unhealthy their diet is. Some experiencing serious health problems and on a myriad of medications sometimes give paleo a whirl and find their health immediately improving. Youth is the elixir of temporary health that has the ability to mask underlying disease that as we age becomes unmasked.
  • #13,138
  • Apr 19, 2018 8:39am Apr 19, 2018 8:39am
Quoting Winston Reed
{quote} I have mentioned several times "processed carbs". If most just avoided these they would be much healthier. However going paleo requires avoiding all grains such as wheat, corn, buckwheat, sorghum, oats etc. etc. So pasta and bread made of these are taboo. (we make bread and other similar with coconut and almond flour). Grains have a deleterious effect on the gut causing it to become "leaky" allowing harmful proteins into the blood stream. In addition grains must usually be processed to make them digestible by humans. However making them...
Yes, I have found this out personally. When I was young I like to train with weights and ate accordingly. After 40 I gave that all up. Not sure why. Now, in my 60's I find that physical therapy is nothing more than what I did when I was younger.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #13,139
  • Apr 19, 2018 8:46am Apr 19, 2018 8:46am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} Facts are relative Simond, the reality is that no matter what your supposed facts are, you have no power to enforce them. {quote} The latter part of your post is valid, so let us get down to the brass tax. Those with power, and those without power.
You must stop putting words in people's mouths. There's been no discussion regarding the enforcement of facts. This discussion has been about whether or not one chooses to believe facts, supposed or not, and aggregate one's own form of truth. Your debate is circular.
  • #13,140
  • Apr 19, 2018 9:05am Apr 19, 2018 9:05am
Quoting Winston Reed
{quote} I have mentioned several times "processed carbs". If most just avoided these they would be much healthier. However going paleo requires avoiding all grains such as wheat, corn, buckwheat, sorghum, oats etc. etc. So pasta and bread made of these are taboo. (we make bread and other similar with coconut and almond flour). Grains have a deleterious effect on the gut causing it to become "leaky" allowing harmful proteins into the blood stream. In addition grains must usually be processed to make them digestible by humans. However making them...
I am not as young as you think. I look a lot younger than I am. Most my age are fat blobs. Well, if you think my diet is storing up plenty of problems for me, like for billions of others, perhaps you could do with taking a good look at the evidence. The people with the greatest longevity and who enjoy the best health, with the least incidences of autoimmune conditions, all eat plenty of carbs and little meat.
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