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  • #41
  • Apr 7, 2018 12:20pm Apr 7, 2018 12:20pm
Quoting Voldemar227
{quote} How's that for an idea ? {image} alternate buy and sell ?
Sounds nice. we can try and test it. Lets see how it handles.
  • #42
  • Apr 7, 2018 12:34pm Apr 7, 2018 12:34pm
Quoting Voldemar227
{quote} How's that for an idea ? {image} alternate buy and sell ?
I think if we use target pips or $ amount to close all those grid orders alternating.

dont you think we can capture properly pips.
  • #43
  • Apr 7, 2018 12:53pm Apr 7, 2018 12:53pm
Quoting cdsaa
{quote} He seems to use Google translate from English to Russian to understand what was written. Suggestion he is making is: (am copying and pasting the content). In the image above, I have circled the biggest problem for us now in the downtrend. The trades which are furthest away from the current market price. These are causing the biggest problem because they are so many pips away from the market and most difficult to recover. These trades are the ones we must target. You may think that the latest martingale trades are the biggest problem because...
You might want to implement a basket TP or Equity TP and close all trades when profit target has been hit. Also, the hedging trades should have it's own multiplier as 3x the amount of the first trades could be too much. It might be enough to just hedge them or just do 2x.

The hedge trades should have a trailing stop in place in case the markets turn back to the initial direction. BE could also work.

In any case, hedging is the only way to prevent a martingale ea from crashing. Limiting the number of trades to one direction is also usually a good way to lower dd. Having the ea also add to to the profitable side is also sometimes being used but the multiplier should be then very close to 1.
  • #44
  • Apr 7, 2018 12:55pm Apr 7, 2018 12:55pm
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} You might want to implement a basket TP or Equity TP and close all trades when profit target has been hit. Also, the hedging trades should have it's own multiplier as 3x the amount of the first trades could be too much. It might be enough to just hedge them or just do 2x. The hedge trades should have a trailing stop in place in case the markets turn back to the initial direction. BE could also work. In any case, hedging is the only way to prevent a martingale ea from crashing. Limiting the number of trades to one direction is also usually...
But the picture on alternative buy and sell is slightly different to lot multiplier around hedging. check the picture posted by Voldemar, it looks interesting, we need to check how it performs in trend and ranging markets.
  • #45
  • Apr 7, 2018 1:20pm Apr 7, 2018 1:20pm
Is there some details on what the EA does? Entries? Exits?
  • #46
  • Apr 7, 2018 2:19pm Apr 7, 2018 2:19pm
Awesome ideas, one ideas to add:

1) In the example we are buying, after 5 orders we take a position in the opposite direction for the hedge. Straight forward. But the 5 orders should be "x" allowing us to change it and when to start it. Example

The 1st GRID is 7 orders, once the 8th order is activated we then take a SELL order which consumes "x" (in my example lets use 3). So we are now on the 8th order which is hedging the first 3 orders. This would be considered a freeze in the operation. Then Orders 4,5,6, and 7 look for the TP. This reduces the drawdown on the account, and then once 4,5,6 and 7 take the TP, everything closes.
Learn, a forex trader must, unlearn and relearn he will.
  • #47
  • Edited 3:40pm Apr 7, 2018 3:00pm | Edited 3:40pm
Quoting COGSx86
Awesome ideas, one ideas to add: 1) In the example we are buying, after 5 orders we take a position in the opposite direction for the hedge. Straight forward. But the 5 orders should be "x" allowing us to change it and when to start it. Example The 1st GRID is 7 orders, once the 8th order is activated we then take a SELL order which consumes "x" (in my example lets use 3). So we are now on the 8th order which is hedging the first 3 orders. This would be considered a freeze in the operation. Then Orders 4,5,6, and 7 look for the TP. This reduces...
Good idea.

We need flexibility in the ea to adjust as many settings as possible in order to optimize it.

It might be good to use the hedge profits to close the losing trades by using partial close, for example if we have sell trades 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, 0.4 and 0.5 and the hedge 1.5, once the profit of the hedge reaches the loss of the 0.1 sell, we close the 0.1 sell and partially close the buy hedge to 1.4 and so on.
  • #48
  • Apr 8, 2018 4:44am Apr 8, 2018 4:44am
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} You might want to implement a basket TP or Equity TP and close all trades when profit target has been hit. Also, the hedging trades should have it's own multiplier as 3x the amount of the first trades could be too much. It might be enough to just hedge them or just do 2x. The hedge trades should have a trailing stop in place in case the markets turn back to the initial direction. BE could also work. In any case, hedging is the only way to prevent a martingale ea from crashing. Limiting the number of trades to one direction is also usually...
@traderTero: you got the Point: hedging is the only way to prevent a Martingale ea from crashing. If I would be a coder I would start coding.

There a may martinagle Systems around here in FF but no coder who is going implement the hedge. I don' t why. Probably it is too difficult.......
renko
  • #49
  • Apr 8, 2018 9:40am Apr 8, 2018 9:40am
Quoting renkotop
{quote} @traderTero: you got the Point: hedging is the only way to prevent a Martingale ea from crashing. If I would be a coder I would start coding. There a may martinagle Systems around here in FF but no coder who is going implement the hedge. I don' t why. Probably it is too difficult....... renko
Not sure why they don't want to do it or not try any new ideas but at least now I can see that there is more talk about hedging also on the other martingale threads. I have also several times asked them to allow adding trades to the winning side as this would act as hedging and would be easy to implement. Above I have posted the hedging sample: "for example if we have sell trades 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, 0.4 and 0.5 and the hedge 1.5, "

Let's presume that at the same time we would have been opening buy trades as follows: 0.1, 0.1, 0.1, 0.1, and 0.1 with a 20 pips distance from each other starting 20 pips on top of the first sell trade, let's also presume that we have the same for the sell trades and the hedge of 1.5 lots have been opened 20 pips from the last sell. So at that point we have a loss from the sell trades $120+$200+$240+$160+$100=-$820 and a profit of $100+$80+$60+$40+$20=+$300 from the 0.1 buy trades.

Now let's see what happens with these three options, 1. the price continues to move up 200 pips 2. the price moves back 120 pips 3. the price moves down 200 pips.

1. we open a similar grid as the first one and at +120 pips we have another $820 loss from sell trades and a second hedge of 1.5 lots, on top of that we would have started third grid and there we would have sell trades 0.1, 0.2, 0.3 and 0.4 open. Loss from them -$100+160+180+80=$520, profit from buy trades with a total movement of 300 pips =
$300+280+260+240+220+200+180+160+140+120+100+80+60+40+20=$2400 and total losses $2160. Here we would have taken the profit and closed all trades with Equity TP.

2. We would closed the buy trades at BE and be in loss of $820 and waiting for a break out of the 100 pips range.

3. we would have started to open martingale buy trades and 0.1 lot sell trades to the direction. Our loss would be probably around $1300 and if the price would continue down another 100 pips, we would close in profit.

I'm not claiming that this kind of system is perfect and it could have some pitfalls but at least compared to a normal martingale system, our dd would have been very small whereas with the martingale we would have probably lost all of our funds. Also, please notice that that my numbers above might not be totally accurate but using hedging and momentum together can be very productive.

One could also argue that why not just open smaller lots instead of letting the ea open more trades to the direction. This is a good argument if you go strictly based on opening the trades on fixed levels but if you use price action or an indicator to open trades then it would be better to use momentum as the number of winning trades should be increasing compared to the losing trades.
  • #50
  • Apr 8, 2018 10:11am Apr 8, 2018 10:11am
Maybe adding on what TraderTero said above in regards to adding on to winning side, I really like the idea of taking profits along the way in order to reduce the current hedged loss. I suggested this to pipbeast ea , no idea what happened to the guy after he finished the ea... But maybe it can be of some use here. I do apologise as I do not have enough experience to code this yet.

"Hi, I had the same question when I was trading manually. What I ended up using is after the hedge, why just not restart from small lots again and close a portion of the loss with profits gained.
Here is how it works: Floating hedge -$200 (or as set by user) and then a 'pay off %', for example set it to 20%. Now when a successful trade is made, 20% of the profits is used to close some of the loss. So a successful $5 trade, $4 will be banked and $1 will cancel out $1 of loss. Setting the 'pay-off' value to 100% will mean that $5 of profit will be used to offset the loss. Please let me know what you think. This will effectively scale out of the loss."

So, bottom line _______ is that, it might be possible to add extra lots to winning side in order to take a few gradual profits to scale out of the loss side. Then just wait for the set Equity TP to then hit with the desired profit earlier.
Best Regards, Tzamo
"Work hard, put in the effort, and follow your dreams..." -Me
  • #51
  • Apr 8, 2018 10:39am Apr 8, 2018 10:39am
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} Not sure why they don't want to do it or not try any new ideas but at least now I can see that there is more talk about hedging also on the other martingale threads. I have also several times asked them to allow adding trades to the winning side as this would act as hedging and would be easy to implement. Above I have posted the hedging sample: "for example if we have sell trades 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, 0.4 and 0.5 and the hedge 1.5, " Let's presume that at the same time we would have been opening buy trades as follows: 0.1, 0.1, 0.1, 0.1, and 0.1...
I don't think it's a matter of difficulty. There are good enough coders around FF, that's for sure.
It's whether or not the good coders think the effort is worth it.

A "hedge" for a martingale is essentially another martingale built on top of the 1st martingale. There is no better way to describe this. Is it difficult to code this? No. Is it worth the while? Maybe. And like all martingales, it requires a large enough balance and also the right instruments to trade this with. I have described my thoughts on this in other martingale threads and my opinion stays the same. I have coded out a proof of concept with this "grail" in mind but the risks remain.

I think more testing has to be done (XAUUSD: no black dots = range strategy, black dots = trend strategy takes over)
I love the idea of collaborative thinking. Keep these thoughts coming guys, we may come up with something good!
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  • #52
  • Apr 9, 2018 4:48am Apr 9, 2018 4:48am
Quoting carddard
{quote} I don't think it's a matter of difficulty. There are good enough coders around FF, that's for sure. It's whether or not the good coders think the effort is worth it. A "hedge" for a martingale is essentially another martingale built on top of the 1st martingale. There is no better way to describe this. Is it difficult to code this? No. Is it worth the while? Maybe. And like all martingales, it requires a large enough balance and also the right instruments to trade this with. I have described my thoughts on this in other martingale threads...
may be can you share your code. that can be start of improving on it.
  • #53
  • Apr 9, 2018 4:52am Apr 9, 2018 4:52am
Quoting cdsaa
{quote} may be can you share your code. that can be start of improving on it.
I will consider sharing the source code, if there is enough interest.
Most people here just want a free meal but have no intention to really contribute.
I am looking for more collaborative work in terms of conceptualization and proving of hypotheses - we have enough good ideas to work with, we need more people to prove them!

If it works, great! Let's make it into a viable system with positive expectancy.
If it doesn't work, let's fail fast.
  • #54
  • Apr 9, 2018 4:07pm Apr 9, 2018 4:07pm
Guys, tomorrow I will post another version of code alternation buy sale. . .
I just can't keep up. . Not enough time.
My topics: https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/1399775-vr-trade-panel-profe
  • #55
  • Apr 9, 2018 4:11pm Apr 9, 2018 4:11pm
Quoting carddard
{quote} I will consider sharing the source code, if there is enough interest. Most people here just want a free meal but have no intention to really contribute. I am looking for more collaborative work in terms of conceptualization and proving of hypotheses - we have enough good ideas to work with, we need more people to prove them! If it works, great! Let's make it into a viable system with positive expectancy. If it doesn't work, let's fail fast.

I personally trade GRID and am always looking to improve my system. But its pretty awesome already kinda hard to improve it. I refuse to post it publicly but if you hit me up on skype: COGSx86, I could share it, with who ever adds me.
Learn, a forex trader must, unlearn and relearn he will.
  • #56
  • Apr 10, 2018 1:35pm Apr 10, 2018 1:35pm
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} Not sure why they don't want to do it or not try any new ideas but at least now I can see that there is more talk about hedging also on the other martingale threads. I have also several times asked them to allow adding trades to the winning side as this would act as hedging and would be easy to implement. Above I have posted the hedging sample: "for example if we have sell trades 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, 0.4 and 0.5 and the hedge 1.5, " Let's presume that at the same time we would have been opening buy trades as follows: 0.1, 0.1, 0.1, 0.1, and 0.1...

@voldemar: I would like to ask, if you are going to code the above mentioned idea.

Please let me/us know.
Thanks, renko
  • #57
  • Apr 10, 2018 1:38pm Apr 10, 2018 1:38pm
Quoting renkotop
{quote} @voldemar: I would like to ask, if you are going to code the above mentioned idea. Please let me/us know. Thanks, renko
yeah, sure, I didn't have time today, sorry.
But I will definitely post code, my apologies. .
My topics: https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/1399775-vr-trade-panel-profe
  • #58
  • Apr 10, 2018 1:40pm Apr 10, 2018 1:40pm
Quoting Voldemar227
{quote} yeah, sure, I didn't have time today, sorry. But I will definitely post code, my apologies. .
Thank you very much!
  • #59
  • Apr 11, 2018 3:01pm Apr 11, 2018 3:01pm
I'm writing an algorithm that uses hedging, it's complicated.
Please tell me you important source code? Deal in is that many here take code and then sell?
My topics: https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/1399775-vr-trade-panel-profe
  • #60
  • Apr 11, 2018 3:13pm Apr 11, 2018 3:13pm
I don't think you need to share source code with people who haven't helped you in the development. You can also make the versions only work on demo accounts. You might want to consider giving full versions to people you consider having been valuable in this project.
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