What's so revolutionary about pin bars? | Forex Factory

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What's so revolutionary about pin bars?

  • #1
  • First Post: Sep 13, 2006 9:29pm Sep 13, 2006 9:29pm
I was amazed at first by pin bars and I still do value them greatly, but I noticed that all it is is jumping in late on a trend. See the picture for the illustration of this.

So aren't pin bars just a fancy way of saying "let's jump in a trend late"?

Sorry if I sound like a cynic, I just don't get why pin bars are such a big deal.

andersenws

P.S. I know I'll probably catch some crap for this post, but it's been on my mind for the past week, and I had to ask.
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  • #2
  • Sep 13, 2006 9:44pm Sep 13, 2006 9:44pm
the pin u have displayed is just a candle in a downtrend, not, IMHO a tradabale PIN.
Look for pins that pierce through resistance at and then close just below resistance. This way your risk to reward ratio is worth taking.
It is not the shape of the candle but where it is in relation to the rest of the chart that matters.

Benjamin Disraili also said "Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics" - PINS work better statistically when they have occured at support or resistance.
In trading, there is no bullshit. You either make money or you don't.
  • #3
  • Sep 13, 2006 9:56pm Sep 13, 2006 9:56pm
I would not say revolutionary, but combined with the bars both before and after they give you a confirmation of trend change. Some feel candles give better signals, to each his own. What better way to get in on the right direction of the trend?

As far as getting in late on a trend? How do you know there is a trend change without getting a price action confirmation?
  • #4
  • Sep 13, 2006 10:24pm Sep 13, 2006 10:24pm
Quoting andersenws
I was amazed at first by pin bars and I still do value them greatly, but I noticed that all it is is jumping in late on a trend. See the picture for the illustration of this.

So aren't pin bars just a fancy way of saying "let's jump in a trend late"?

Sorry if I sound like a cynic, I just don't get why pin bars are such a big deal.

andersenws

P.S. I know I'll probably catch some crap for this post, but it's been on my mind for the past week, and I had to ask.
Hi andersenws,

You won't catch any crap from me for asking about something that is bothering you. Your question is totally legitimate in my opinion.

What I'm about to say here isn't really in direct response to your question, nor is it addressed to you. But an idea you expressed is one I hear frequently from newbies who contact me privately. Their concern is about getting into a move "late"; about missing all those pips at the beginning of the move. Their angst is such that one would think someone had stolen money right out of their pockets!

If I had a system that gave me the middle 20% of every days move, I would be ecstatic and I wouldn't care less about missing the first and last 40% of the daily move. The pips in the middle are the ones with the meat on them. The pips at the top and bottom are mostly fat. I don't want fat; I want lean and mean!

Top and bottom pickers get burned more often because top and bottom pips are less reliable and less probable to continue the move in the right direction.

Jesse Livermore said the first and last eighths of a move are the most expensive.

So, if a pin bar (or any entry method) gets me into a move past the fat and into the lean, then I'm happy.

Finally, pin bars are a big deal because when used with S/R, they have a high probability for success. So, when anyone reading this hears or reads the words "pin bars", always hear or read it as "pin bars plus S/R".

Thanks for your question and for letting me springboard off of it.

Dial
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  • #5
  • Sep 13, 2006 10:41pm Sep 13, 2006 10:41pm
Thanks for posting this Diallist. This S/R with pin bars was a bit of info I did not have. In view of this, I believe there is a current pin bar on the EURCHF daily, which has pushed back through a previous high, which would comprise the resistance in this example.

or maybe not... looks like it is above that point and hasn't quite formed. I'll shut up I think here.
  • #6
  • Sep 13, 2006 11:02pm Sep 13, 2006 11:02pm
Quoting minute
Thanks for posting this Diallist. This S/R with pin bars was a bit of info I did not have. In view of this, I believe there is a current pin bar on the EURCHF daily, which has pushed back through a previous high, which would comprise the resistance in this example.

or maybe not... looks like it is above that point and hasn't quite formed. I'll shut up I think here.
Thanks minute, but to give credit where it is due, MrGreen mentioned it before I did in post #2. At any rate, I'm glad you've acquired one more bit of useful knowledge.

Dial
sxaxlxvxaxtxixoxnxbxyxgxrxaxcxexdxoxtxoxrxgx
  • #7
  • Sep 14, 2006 5:23pm Sep 14, 2006 5:23pm
Quoting andersenws
I was amazed at first by pin bars and I still do value them greatly, but I noticed that all it is is jumping in late on a trend. See the picture for the illustration of this.

So aren't pin bars just a fancy way of saying "let's jump in a trend late"?

Sorry if I sound like a cynic, I just don't get why pin bars are such a big deal.

andersenws

P.S. I know I'll probably catch some crap for this post, but it's been on my mind for the past week, and I had to ask.
G'day,
I noticed one time that using Vegas' tunnel trading an entry was signalled significantly earlier than an entry using a pin bar (that formed after the 1D bar finished). So it may be possible to jump into a trend earlier.

Pin bars seem to provide a good high-probability signal. They seem simple. They should make it quite clear about how to enter the trade.

They seem to be simple and effective and that is why I like them. It may be possible to get better results using other methods (that get you into the trend earlier) but it still seems to provide a good result.

Possibly not revolutionary but it seems to be simple and provide a good result.
Cheers,
Linc.
  • #8
  • Sep 27, 2006 6:05am Sep 27, 2006 6:05am
Quoting mrgreen
the pin u have displayed is just a candle in a downtrend, not, IMHO a tradabale PIN.
Look for pins that pierce through resistance at and then close just below resistance. This way your risk to reward ratio is worth taking.
It is not the shape of the candle but where it is in relation to the rest of the chart that matters.

Benjamin Disraili also said "Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics" - PINS work better statistically when they have occured at support or resistance.
Could someone post a chart(of examples) indicating how they work out support/resistance please?
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #9
  • Sep 27, 2006 9:03am Sep 27, 2006 9:03am
Dial -

Is using pin bars any better/worse than using candlesticks for the same reason?

I have a hard time "seeing" the pin bars -- especially price. To me they just look like marks on the screen.

Whereas I can see what's going on with a candlestick much more easily. As I'm reading through all the PF material I'm trying to mentally replace pin bars for candlesticks, with only marginal success since they are still visually pin bars. I guess I'm already biased towards candlesticks.
  • #10
  • Sep 27, 2006 2:37pm Sep 27, 2006 2:37pm
Quoting gmv
Dial -

Is using pin bars any better/worse than using candlesticks for the same reason?

I have a hard time "seeing" the pin bars -- especially price. To me they just look like marks on the screen.

Whereas I can see what's going on with a candlestick much more easily. As I'm reading through all the PF material I'm trying to mentally replace pin bars for candlesticks, with only marginal success since they are still visually pin bars. I guess I'm already biased towards candlesticks.
I personally find candlesticks to be much easier to read what the market is telling you. They both have their advantages. I use bar charts for price projection, trendlines, and S&R and then I switch over to candlesticks to see what the market is telling me.

Everyone will have their own personal preference. If candlesticks are easier for you to understand then I would look into learning as much about them as possible. Both bars and candlesticks have ways of telling you the same thing, I have just found candlesticks to have an advantage over bar charts as to what information can be provided.
  • #11
  • Sep 27, 2006 3:07pm Sep 27, 2006 3:07pm
Pin bars have their place. But I wouldn't trade solely off of them. They're not as probable as many make them out to be.

Perfect example was the 1 hour pin bar last night on the USDJPY... the next candle reversed, which would mean you had a nice setup for a reversal, and wouldn't you know it, it continued on bullish.

I'd say that if you want to trade them by themselves, do what dialist just said, trade them only with good S&R, and I'd add Fib confluence as well.

They're just another tool for the toolbox IMO.
Mr. Trend
  • #12
  • Sep 27, 2006 4:06pm Sep 27, 2006 4:06pm
  •  Carlos
  • | Joined Sep 2005 | Status: Commitment, planning and discipline | 65 Posts
Mr trend... i think James believes that pin bars should be used on a 4hr and daily chart for FX... for various futures such as the financials, lower timeframes can be used. i have a system which has two entry rules.... a pin bar and divergence (traditional and hidden divergence) and nothing else. Its a great system with fantastic risk to reward.

Happy trading
  • #13
  • Last Post: Sep 27, 2006 5:35pm Sep 27, 2006 5:35pm
Quoting Mr Trend
Pin bars have their place. But I wouldn't trade solely off of them. They're not as probable as many make them out to be.

Perfect example was the 1 hour pin bar last night on the USDJPY... the next candle reversed, which would mean you had a nice setup for a reversal, and wouldn't you know it, it continued on bullish.

I'd say that if you want to trade them by themselves, do what dialist just said, trade them only with good S&R, and I'd add Fib confluence as well.

They're just another tool for the toolbox IMO.

1h isn't something recommended / I would recommend for pin bars. Daily pins can run for 50-1400 pips (EURCHF pin ran for over 100, Euro pin ran for over 130, Nippy pin gave almost 100 or more depending where you entered, EJ pin just now gave 50-100 depending where you entered....this all within the last 2 weeks, none of these failed. Oh, but the first cable pin failed, then made a second which worked. I personally blame it on everyone working forex trading cable for the "big pips", that totally adds an erratic element to it that isn't as present in more tame FX pairs, at least that's what I've seen happen the last 6 months...the beast vs the docile)


As for respecting S/R and fibs, James16 points this out in his threads and teaches it accordingly in the PF.
You can make a living trading solely pin bars off daily, but if someone feels the urgent need to have entered an extra 50 pips earlier via a MACD or similiar and pays 12 more hours at the pc for it, that's just a personal time expenditure preference and lifestyle decision, but not a malus for pin bars

Just my 2 cents, of course, I could be wrong.

Best of luck to all of you, be it pin traders or otherwise!

SeekingLight
Trust price. Know yourself.
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