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Wanna know why a majority of traders lose?

  • #1
  • First Post: Edited Jul 18, 2017 9:22am Jul 17, 2017 10:34pm | Edited Jul 18, 2017 9:22am
You guys really want to understand why a majority of traders lose?
  • #2
  • Edited Jul 18, 2017 3:04pm Jul 17, 2017 10:39pm | Edited Jul 18, 2017 3:04pm
To tell you the truth... a majority of y'all just make it harder than it needs to be, as in you guys are making it too complex when it's not. Adding a million indicators and drawing art projects on your charts, how does that help you at all, really? Don't get me wrong, the beginning stages of the trading journey has been one of the hardest obstacles I have ever taken on in my life but honestly, if you learn how to manage the right components through mistakes and time invested... you will be successful.
  • #3
  • Jul 17, 2017 10:47pm Jul 17, 2017 10:47pm
Trading psychology? A lot of people believe trading psychology is one of the most extremely crucial components for a successful trading foundation.
Yes, it is very important. But in my opinion, trading psychology is only real because you do not know what you are doing. You have no trading plan. You do not know when to enter and when to exit your trade.
  • #4
  • Edited Jul 18, 2017 12:33pm Jul 17, 2017 11:02pm | Edited Jul 18, 2017 12:33pm
Work hard and intake the RIGHT information and you will achieve your goals. That is so cliche but the more you want to learn, you will begin to understand this structured market (yes this market is structured. If you think it is random, you are confused). Continue to read and learn something new everyday.
I have to say that there is only so much information you can retain before you begin to completely comprehend how to start developing a strategy to become profitable.
Read as much as you can, it can be anything you have questions about. Take the bits and pieces floating out there and incorporate it into your trading method and see if it works. If it doesn't, discard the information. But if it works, that's good for you!

Anymore additional information is useless. Don't make it more difficult on yourself.
  • #5
  • Jul 17, 2017 11:27pm Jul 17, 2017 11:27pm
Quoting Ganative
Work hard and you will achieve your goals. That is so cliche but the more you want to learn, you will begin to understand this structured market (yes this market is structured. If you think it is random, you are confused). Continue to read and learn something new everyday. Put in the grit and grind. I have to say that there is only so much information you can retain before you begin to completely comprehend how to start developing a strategy to become profitable. Anymore additional information is useless. Don't make it harder on yourself.
Thanks Ganative...

Could you please elaborate more on your take about the market being structured?

Thanks
  • #6
  • Edited Jul 18, 2017 7:32pm Jul 17, 2017 11:37pm | Edited Jul 18, 2017 7:32pm
Quoting aaven
{quote} Thanks Ganative... Could you please elaborate more on your take about the market being structured? Thanks
Supply and demand. On a global scale, understand where other traders and big banks/hedge funds are wanting to do business. Understand direction.
  • #7
  • Jul 18, 2017 12:53am Jul 18, 2017 12:53am
Quoting Ganative
{quote} Supply and demand. On a global scale, understand where other traders and big banks/hedge funds are wanting to do business. Large institutions are not interested in targeting you individually for your stop loss.
Ganative,

Thanks for your inputs. That would translate into understanding/prioritizing the Fundamentals thoroughly?
  • #8
  • Edited 3:37am Jul 18, 2017 2:41am | Edited 3:37am
Easy one to answer really. Trading is much harder than most people realize, and thew average relative newcomer puts their money on the live way before they have actually learnt how to read and profit from price movement. There are other psychological reasons, but you have to learn how to trade first. Most don't, and it really is that simple.

However, there are plenty of traders who have been studying the market and trading for years and still lose, so what's going on here? Are they just stupid?

Of course they are not. From what I have seen with the traders I have come across who find themselves in this position, it usually boils down to their personality. They are just not disciplined enough and fall prey to their own inconsistencies, such as failure to trade their system, trading emotionally instead of methodically, in short, they are their own worst enemies. There are loads of these traders out there as well. They understand better than anyone what needs to change, but for one reason or another, they are just not able to bring the change about, no matter how well they read the charts.
  • #9
  • Jul 18, 2017 4:15am Jul 18, 2017 4:15am
Quoting cat
Easy one to answer really. Trading is much harder than most people realize, and thew average relative newcomer puts their money on the live way before they have actually learnt how to read and profit from price movement. There are other psychological reasons, but you have to learn how to trade first. Most don't, and it really is that simple. However, there are plenty of traders who have been studying the market and trading for years and still lose, so what's going on here? Are they just stupid? Of course they are not. From what I have seen with...
totally agree
  • #10
  • Jul 18, 2017 5:28am Jul 18, 2017 5:28am
Don't discount life obligations. When having this familiar discussion, a lot of people fail to mention that having a job, a family, and other priorities outside of trading make for a huge learning curve vs. someone who is young and has nothing better to do. They have a huge edge to success compared to other person.
  • #11
  • Edited 7:38pm Jul 18, 2017 6:37am | Edited 7:38pm
Quoting aaven
{quote} Ganative, Thanks for your inputs. That would translate into understanding/prioritizing the Fundamentals thoroughly?
When people speak in terms of "fundamentals" it slightly confuses me. Do you mean paying attention to the news? Or do you mean fundamental factors in trading (support/resistance, risk control, entry/exit point, etc.)

If you mean news, then that depends on how you trade. I do not trade news. My trading is based off on technical analysis. But keep in mind that I never said there is a correct way of trading. Some people make do with trading incoming economic news just fine and I do not have the right to call it garbage or claim "it doesn't work" because it surely does. Just not my cup of tea. There are literally hundreds of systems out there. With the millions and millions of traders globally, do people actually think there is only one or a couple of systems that work? That's silly.

If you mean fundamental factors about trading, then yes prioritize by all means. Do extensive research. Read more about what you are confused about. Whether that be about support and resistance, managing your risk on each trade, etc. Even if you do have a sound trading method, you still have to take account of how much money you're willing to risk each trade... because when shit hits the fan you must have an exit strategy. Whether that ends with a profit or a loss, there has to be an exit point of a trade. If you are guessing then you don't have a system. You are gambling.
  • #12
  • Edited 7:34pm Jul 18, 2017 6:48am | Edited 7:34pm
Quoting cat
Easy one to answer really. Trading is much harder than most people realize, and thew average relative newcomer puts their money on the live way before they have actually learnt how to read and profit from price movement. There are other psychological reasons, but you have to learn how to trade first. Most don't, and it really is that simple. However, there are plenty of traders who have been studying the market and trading for years and still lose, so what's going on here? Are they just stupid? Of course they are not. From what I have seen with...
Trading is hard. Anybody who says trading is easy is spewing garbage. But there is an extent to how hard it is, I guess you can say. Once you really understand when to exploit the clear opportunities the market throws at you through your system, then you should work on your method to make it flawless. Flawless, but knowing how to accept losses when it does not go your way, because you can never have a 100% win rate.

You think that traders should practice demo before they go live. Which is completely fine. But I believe that to actually learn and profit, you have to lose money first. It's inevitable. Put money in a real account and slowly learn from each mistake... as hard and unpleasant as it sounds, I think it is the only way. That's why I think so many wannabe traders give up and throw in the towel. They aren't willing to go through the losing phase... because when you first start out you won't be profitable at all.

edit for the first sentence: trading is hard at the beginning stages***
  • #13
  • Jul 18, 2017 7:12am Jul 18, 2017 7:12am
Quoting Ganative
{quote} Trading is hard. Anybody who says trading is easy is spewing garbage. But there is an extent to how hard it is, I guess you can say.
its not hard. yes, many make it hard, many have bad character (jealous, greedy,...), try to build the house from the top to the ground, are not smart enough in math,.... then its hard.

but it isnt hard, an average should not need more then 3-6 month to know all in perfection and by speaking to right persons. doing wrong persons, reading wrong books/threads/textes.., learning wrong things , ofcourse then it will start being hard and takes a very long time.

but the math market knowledge and then structure a strategy is not this difficult. when we first started training people and did not seperate people who possible to learn correct from people who are not, we did not reach the 3-6 months time, after seperating it was extrem easy. many people are not make for this business. its all about math (near 90% and market knowledge), 10% luck (like wars, fimaly situations, illness, earning in job, who you met in your live,....).

most dont learn basics before trading, math and market basics, ofcourse you need years (and not like normal persons 2 month) to learn all mistakes with this fast running instead of slow growing.
  • #14
  • Jul 18, 2017 7:21am Jul 18, 2017 7:21am
If you don't trade futures and don't have access to the real order book, it is almost impossible to make money in forex markets. There is no way you can sense the intentions of the "big capital" by using just technical analysis. Orders and order momentum move the markets, not technical analysis.
When you watch the order book real time you realize that the markets are manipulated and rigged towards the "big capital". They can almost do whatever they wish, whenever they wish.
If you are trading with a broker who accepts order size smaller than 1 lot, than you are trading with a market maker. Which simply means when you lose they win, simple as that. Interbank markets don't allow fractional lot sizing, only whole lots. I don't care whether they claim to be ECN or STP etc....
My suggestion would be every investor here in FF should switch to futures markets and feel the difference themselves. Otherwise you will all blow your hard earned money down the tube...

Just my 2 cents...
  • #15
  • Jul 18, 2017 7:35am Jul 18, 2017 7:35am
Quoting GoldTheHun
If you don't trade futures and don't have access to the real order book, it is almost impossible to make money in forex markets. There is no way you can sense the intentions of the "big capital" by using just technical analysis. Orders and order momentum move the markets, not technical analysis. When you watch the order book real time you realize that the markets are manipulated and rigged towards the "big capital". They can almost do whatever they wish, whenever they wish. If you are trading with a broker who accepts order size smaller than 1 lot,...
this a have to correct:

1. future are not this big (in currencies even much smaller then currencies). you dont need much extrem much money to buy all futures dax what are offered for a good price spread.....
2. your real order book is used from many to manipulate exactly people with many fake orders, so in order book is often not inside what people want to do, its often inside what people want to let see you.
3. no wins possible in spot market, only in future market! come ony, thats stupid.
4. "If you are trading with a broker who accepts order size smaller than 1 lot" - totally wrong, its true that most prime are getting only streams of 500k or 1 mio from their LP (so your border would be at least 5 lot, not 1 by the way), but you can also trade smaller amounts. and they are no marketmakers.
5. a market maker you will see easy: when you win he will kick you out or change your order fill time , so you want to go away....
6. future market are often even more expansive in currencies.
7. and now by the way: you order book and momentum, all this is always reprenseted in the charts! all what is done (not what in your orderbookk is maybe faked and deleted and useless oder may be filled). in chart you see what is coming from orderbook at the moment it is filled and get important, before its unimportant. this difference many dont learn, and thats why many get faked by fake orders from some people in order books.
8. if you really believe in your words, stop trading and start from beginng. learn market basics, learn math. you have the risk to start arbitrage trading are hegde trading when you have only this market knowledge and then you really get problems and time lost. maybe you need to learn it the hard way, looks like you are extrem new in trading, but you really could save years more easy.
  • #16
  • Jul 18, 2017 7:36am Jul 18, 2017 7:36am
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} its not hard. yes, many make it hard, many have bad character (jealous, greedy,...), try to build the house from the top to the ground, are not smart enough in math,.... then its hard. but it isnt hard, an average should not need more then 3-6 month to know all in perfection and by speaking to right persons. doing wrong persons, reading wrong books/threads/textes.., learning wrong things , ofcourse then it will start being hard and takes a very long time. but the math market knowledge and then structure a strategy is not this difficult....
I think when you said "of course then it will start being hard and takes a very long time" yes, that's what people aren't ready for. That's what I mean by it is hard. Honestly, when you begin, there is an endless amount of sources... but where do you start?

A majority of people are just aimlessly clicking around and reading/watching the wrong things. They can't pick apart the good information from the bad.
  • #17
  • Jul 18, 2017 7:42am Jul 18, 2017 7:42am
Quoting Ganative
{quote} I think when you said "of course then it will start being hard and takes a very long time" yes, that's what people aren't ready for. That's what I mean by it is hard. Honestly, when you begin, there is an endless amount of sources... but where do you start? A majority of people are just aimlessly clicking around and reading/watching the wrong things. They can't pick apart the good information from the bad.
they dont start at the beginning. whats the market i want to trade, how is it structured, how is the math in this trading market. what are the rules, the market members, ......and and and.......most even never completly read their trading platform manual. i cant understand this, so easy basics most cant do. anyone who did not read the trading platform manual in their first day by their own, we kicked always out. there are not many people made for trading, some can changed to be made, but many cant.
  • #18
  • Jul 18, 2017 7:46am Jul 18, 2017 7:46am
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} this a have to correct: 1. future are not this big (in currencies even much smaller then currencies). you dont need much extrem much money to buy all futures dax what are offered for a good price spread..... 2. your real order book is used from many to manipulate exactly people with many fake orders, so in order book is often not inside what people want to do, its often inside what people want to let see you. 3. no wins possible in spot market, only in future market! come ony, thats stupid. 4. "If you are trading with a broker who accepts...
I trade since 2002 (new trader!). In 2004 I switched to futures and never looked back.

Good luck all....
  • #19
  • Jul 18, 2017 7:50am Jul 18, 2017 7:50am
Quoting GoldTheHun
{quote} I trade since 2002 (new trader!). In 2004 I switched to futures and never looked back. Good luck all....
come on, then really learn basics and dont tell the people so wrong informations. some can believe you. maybe you trade not currencies? then futures are very good and cheap! but for currencies its not best area.

my text with arbitrage or hedging was then maybe stupid, when you are trader since 2002, then of course you dont trade this beginner strategies.
  • #20
  • Jul 18, 2017 7:53am Jul 18, 2017 7:53am
This forum is the blind leading the blind sometimes. Why the OP even got a reply is beyond me, this has been done over and over. Most traders don't fail because they are lazy, they fail because they trade just like this - they trade technically purely and don't understand that they are looking for real economic events and data that are reflected on their chart and they can get in on.

I think the OP will soon learn the hard way how little he knows.
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