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Three Pairs Hedging

  • #981
  • Jun 26, 2017 3:54pm Jun 26, 2017 3:54pm
Quoting GoldTheHun
{quote} No. No two accounts and no 2 brokers needed. 1 broker only... It's logic is a plain basket logic. If you trade the following way BUY GBPUSD BUY NZDCAD BUY AUDNZD SELL GBPCAD SELL AUDUSD and it makes profit when the indicator gives positive values. If you trade the opposite (Sell GBPUSD Sell NZDCAD Sell AUDNZD Buy GBPCAD Buy AUDUSD, the minus figures in the indicator means you are in profit. I hope I am clear enough. If not please let me know. Thanks...
I'm referring to the approach I have in mind for the 10 pairs, not the approach you discussed.
Open to new approaches.
  • #982
  • Jun 26, 2017 6:12pm Jun 26, 2017 6:12pm
Quoting GoldTheHun
{quote} Can you be more specific? How do you open the exposure in mt4? Thanks...
press yhe button titles exposure in the down bar.
GUYS BE AWARE FROM HUNTING YOUR STOP LOSSES BY YOUR BROKER & BY "GHOSTS"
  • #983
  • Jun 26, 2017 8:21pm Jun 26, 2017 8:21pm
Quoting GoldTheHun
{quote} Hi Meta, You have a very good understanding of relationships between pairs.. I loved the clarity in you explanations and schematics. I am not a coder, just a modder when I can understand the logic of the indicator and task at hand. I put together a very amateurish indicator for 5 pair hedging that lechuzon mentioned. It calculates the dollar total of the 5 pair hedge for the current day (since day open). {image} Here are the indicators. Both needed in order for the Circular5 to work. {file}...
GoldTheHun,

How can I get the Circular5 indicator to work one pairs with suffixes such as GBPUSDfxf and GBPUSDmicro?

Thanks.

Bruce
  • #984
  • Jun 26, 2017 9:36pm Jun 26, 2017 9:36pm
Quoting MetaCoder
{quote} Hi Samer, I'm no expert but I have tried many forex trading strategies in the last 15 years. I've learnt a few things about what does not work. And I'm reasonably handy as far as writing EAs. Haven't gotten into writing indicators, I've left that to others. The approach I've outlined here is a new idea to me though I'm sure many others have thought of it and have tried it. I haven't been able to even trade it on demo accounts. The only way I would ever attempt to trade it is in an automated fashion; in other words, with Expert Advisor software....

MetaCoder,
Trying to wrap my brain around this approach. I hope that you shed some more light on this approach by answering some questions that I have.
1. SnapShot of Bids & Asks. Is it necessary to keep the same Bids & Asks? Or can we widen the GAP between the Bids & Asks ... as long as we widen the GAP the same on all pairs?
2. GBPCHF & CHFJPY. To trade this approach do we need to have 2 instances of GPBCHF & CHFJPY? Because it is shown in the diagram you illustrated.
3. What do you estimate is the potential TakeProfit one cycle of this approach? Do you look for 5 pips or ????
4. Has anyone attempted an EA to execute this approach on a single account? I am not a coder, so not sure how to do it. But couldn't the SnapShot of Bids & Asks be put in as Global Variables and the EA will either place appropriate Buy Limits and Sell Limits or be ready to place appropriate Market orders?
Thanks for sharing.
Bruce
  • #985
  • Jun 26, 2017 11:06pm Jun 26, 2017 11:06pm
What is good tool if i want to take three pair or multi-pare i need to calculate the lot size manually according to pip value and spread difference. Is any one having excel sheet with formula

For example

AUD/USD -PIP Value =10$ for 1 LOT and Spread is (19)
AUD/NZD -PIP Value =10$ for 1.38 So Active LOT is= .71 LOT and Spread (86) Spread Difference =-67
  • #986
  • Jun 27, 2017 4:16am Jun 27, 2017 4:16am
Quoting brucech
{quote} GoldTheHun, How can I get the Circular5 indicator to work one pairs with suffixes such as GBPUSDfxf and GBPUSDmicro? Thanks. Bruce
As I mentioned before I did a very amateurish indicator codewise.. Just edit the code and enter your Pair names where you see the pairs.. Make sure those pairs are in marketwatch list...
  • #987
  • Jun 27, 2017 4:18am Jun 27, 2017 4:18am
Quoting Samer1970
{quote} press yhe button titles exposure in the down bar.
Hi Samer,

Well, that is after you enter the basket trade though, not before. I needed to see what the basket is doing before entry.
Thanks though..

Good Luck...
  • #988
  • Edited 5:11pm Jun 27, 2017 5:16am | Edited 5:11pm
I think folks need to be reminded that profit for a currency basket is not going to magically happen just because you've set up a triangle...no matter how many triangles are in the basket. If you are not perfectly hedge, then profit is ultimately going to depend on NET exposure and directional movement in favor of the Net exposed currency pair(s), as previously explained by Coder. Somewhere in your group of triangles you're going to be net long USD, CAD, GBP, JPY, CHF, EUR, AUD, and/or NZD, AND net short USD, CAD, GBP, JPY, CHF, EUR, AUD, and/or NZD. A "Buy" dominated basket is going to make money only if the movement of your hedge is in the direction of your NET long exposed currency(ies), and vice versa for a "Sell" dominated basket, which in essence is no difference than taking a directional trade with the net exposed single currency pair. There is no magic in a hedge, its simply math, no matter how complicated the setup is. If you were mathematically perfectly hedge, there would be no NET exposure which means there would be no means of profit.

FWIW, the link below is to a spreadsheet that I posted several years ago that shows the mathematical relationship between ALL of the major and cross currency pairs. The discussion within that link bears reading.

https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=565244

Best,

Dave
  • #989
  • Jun 27, 2017 5:34am Jun 27, 2017 5:34am
Quoting GoldTheHun
There probably are many ways to use the indicator. One possible way to enter the trade when the indicator value <=-50 (enter short), exit at 0, with a loss. or exit at -150 for $100 profit. (for 1 lot each pair). Opposite for the longs... Indicator calculates BUY GBPUSD BUY NZDCAD BUY AUDNZD SELL GBPCAD SELL AUDUSD. If the indicator value is >0 this basket is making money the way it is traded. If the indicator value is <0 than the basket is making money in the opposite trade direction of each pair. Good Luck...
Hi Gold
what would happen if I were to SHORT when the indicator is at +100 and then it goes to 0, would it be a profitable trade?
  • #990
  • Jun 27, 2017 5:45am Jun 27, 2017 5:45am
Quoting davelansing
I think folks need to be reminded that profit for a currency basket is not going to magically happen just because you've set up a triangle...no matter how many triangles are in the basket. Profit is ultimately going to depend on NET exposure and directional movement in favor of the Net exposed currency pair(s), as previously explained by Coder. Somewhere in your group of triangles you're going to be net long USD, CAD, GBP, JPY, CHF, EUR, AUD, and/or NZD, AND net short USD, CAD, GBP, JPY, CHF, EUR, AUD, and/or NZD. A "Buy" dominated basket is going...
all correct to 100% what you say. but i think they cant see this. i tried to help them already, they look to new in trading , they cant see this effect. best is, they try it out and learn after some month/years reality in trading with hedge trades is same like doing the small unhedged exposure with much much smaller costs. you can teach some the basics, not all will understand it, and only 10% can really use it.

all rest is simple arbitrage trading, but because metacoder say they dont look for arbitrage, they really look for hedge win because of whatever reason they calculated.
at least its very easy to program and you dont need long time to invest , but simple using math to compare all first would help more.
  • #991
  • Jun 27, 2017 5:53am Jun 27, 2017 5:53am
Quoting savanhws
{quote} Hi Gold what would happen if I were to SHORT when the indicator is at +100 and then it goes to 0, would it be a profitable trade?
Exactly Savan. The basket would end up in profit...

Good Luck
  • #992
  • Jun 27, 2017 5:59am Jun 27, 2017 5:59am
Here is the better version of the indicator.

Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 Circular5-DayOpen.mq4   5 KB | 747 downloads


Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 DayOpenDayLevel.mq4   2 KB | 649 downloads


Both have to be downloaded..

There are 2 lines in the indicator. Blue line is the Long GBPUSD, Long NZDCAD, Long AUDNZD, Short GBPCAD, short AUDUSD. The red line is the opposite trades.
This indicator takes into consideration of the spread.
The difference of the 2 lines gives you how much spread you will pay when you enter. All based on 1 lot on each pair...

Good Luck

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: GBPCADM5.png Size: 42 KB
  • #993
  • Jun 27, 2017 7:55am Jun 27, 2017 7:55am
Quoting lechuzon
by the way.. this is the best 3 hedge setup of the day {image}

my yesterday's group.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: hedgeyes.png Size: 6 KB


Well.. best setup for today. 3 PAIRS..

BUY AUDUSD, BUY USDCHF SELL AUDCHF..

and for hedge 5
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: HEDGE5.png Size: 6 KB
  • #994
  • Jun 27, 2017 8:28am Jun 27, 2017 8:28am
Good stuffs

why I just discover this thread
Holy grail, pls pm
  • #995
  • Edited 12:07pm Jun 27, 2017 11:53am | Edited 12:07pm
Quoting brucech
{quote} MetaCoder, Trying to wrap my brain around this approach. I hope that you shed some more light on this approach by answering some questions that I have. 1. SnapShot of Bids & Asks. Is it necessary to keep the same Bids & Asks? Or can we widen the GAP between the Bids & Asks ... as long as we widen the GAP the same on all pairs? 2. GBPCHF & CHFJPY. To trade this approach do we need to have 2 instances of GPBCHF & CHFJPY? Because it is shown in the diagram you illustrated. 3. What do you estimate is the potential TakeProfit one cycle of this...
There is no duplication of GBPCHF and CHFJPY.

It is:

Account 1
EURUSD - Sell
USDJPY - Sell
EURJPY - Sell
GBPJPY - Buy
EURGBP - Buy
EURCHF - Buy
GBPCHF - Buy
GBPUSD - Sell
USDCHF - Buy
CHFJPY - Buy


Account 2
EURUSD - Buy
USDJPY - Buy
EURJPY - Buy
GBPJPY - Sell
EURGBP - Sell
EURCHF - Sell
GBPCHF - Sell
GBPUSD - Buy
USDCHF - Sell
CHFJPY - Sell

You would set the gap per your judgment above ask or below bid where you want to enter for your sells and buys.

Potential profit isn't going to be large, tending to be limited as pairs get profitably hedged. Only open one trade per pair per account.
Open to new approaches.
  • #996
  • Jun 27, 2017 11:59am Jun 27, 2017 11:59am
MetaCoder,

Thanks. I noticed that in your other post, but just wanted to be sure about it.
Is there a particular time of week and day that you have found that would be better to start a hedging cycle?

Bruce
  • #997
  • Jun 27, 2017 1:11pm Jun 27, 2017 1:11pm
There probably is brucech, but all of the pairs need to move sooner or later and it's market movement we want. I've been working with an EA and as I expected the very quiet times aren't good. I don't know how it would do during major news announcements. But profit was available now several times in a row during late afternoon and early evening, USA Pacific time.

The pairs open up in no predictable order, just depends on what the market does once the anchors are set and the EA waits for the market to touch the buy and sell levels.
Open to new approaches.
  • #998
  • Jun 28, 2017 1:21am Jun 28, 2017 1:21am
Quoting GoldTheHun
{quote} Hi Meta, You have a very good understanding of relationships between pairs.. I loved the clarity in you explanations and schematics. I am not a coder, just a modder when I can understand the logic of the indicator and task at hand. I put together a very amateurish indicator for 5 pair hedging that lechuzon mentioned. It calculates the dollar total of the 5 pair hedge for the current day (since day open). {image} Here are the indicators. Both needed in order for the Circular5 to work. {file}...


Thanks for the indicator GoldTheHun is very good... but is possible without open day line? To see the real range of this hedge..
  • #999
  • Jun 28, 2017 5:06am Jun 28, 2017 5:06am
Quoting MetaCoder
{quote} There is no duplication of GBPCHF and CHFJPY. It is: Account 1 EURUSD - Sell USDJPY - Sell EURJPY - Sell GBPJPY - Buy EURGBP - Buy EURCHF - Buy GBPCHF - Buy GBPUSD - Sell USDCHF - Buy CHFJPY - Buy Account 2 EURUSD - Buy USDJPY - Buy EURJPY - Buy GBPJPY - Sell EURGBP - Sell EURCHF - Sell GBPCHF - Sell GBPUSD - Buy USDCHF - Sell CHFJPY - Sell You would set the gap per your judgment above ask or below bid where you want to enter for your sells and buys. Potential profit isn't going to be large, tending to be limited as pairs get profitably...
but in positiones you 3 times chf sell and one time buy? is true?
  • #1,000
  • Jun 28, 2017 5:18am Jun 28, 2017 5:18am
Quoting loseman
{quote} Thanks for the indicator GoldTheHun is very good... but is possible without open day line? To see the real range of this hedge..
I am glad it is useful to you.
I didn't understand the question. Could you be more specific?

Thanks....
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