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Limit vs Stop Orders

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  • Post #61
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  • Jun 4, 2008 4:14pm Jun 4, 2008 4:14pm
  •  merlin
  • Joined Mar 2004 | Status: Magic Man | 3,220 Posts
sorry for my delayed response here capitalist, ive been on the computer a lot less these days. call it a lifestyle change this debate is kind of like the old days when we had "pen pals" LOL

so anyway, the major difference we have at this point is in the way we classify the order types. as you pointed out, this can be viewed as a matter of preference. but i view this debate much like the debate that was once had about the periodic table of elements.
in the 1800's there were a crowd of scientists who were attempting to organize the worlds elements. there were several proposals... some wanted to organize by color, some wanted to organize by chemistry. there were hundreds of proposals on how to organize the elements, but there was no consensus.

then comes Dmitri Mendeleev. he didnt try to impose an arbitrary organization, as the other scientists did. instead he looked at the natural organization of the elements and tried to build a table around what he observed. he observed rather than imposed. what he came up with is the modern day periodic table, which is now ubiquitously accepted.

what is astonishing about the periodic table is that it actually PREDICTED elements that had not even been found yet! when he first proposed the table there were a few blank spaces where elements should be, and over time scientists found the elements that Mendeleev's table said would be found.

as i said a few times already, once you understand that market and limit are the main order types "everything else will fall into place". i can tell you what an order does without ever using it, because i know the proper structure of orders. the model you are proposing doesnt have these properties...i would argue it actually convolutes the situation. and the many factually incorrect statements youve made in this thread prove how easily you can get confused when looking at orders under your model.

so im willing to accept that we classify our orders differently, but i have to say that the way i propose to organize them is much more helpful to a trader. and btw, im not claiming this to be “my” model, this is the way that most brokers and every major regulating body views them.

Relax and be happy.
 
 
  • Post #62
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  • Jun 5, 2008 11:03pm Jun 5, 2008 11:03pm
  •  capitalist88
  • Joined Oct 2006 | Status: Member | 1,070 Posts
Merlin,

Kind of like the exchanges of letters between various scientists and mathematicians in the 19th century.

Anyway, which factual errors are you referring to? I think the only factual disagreement we had was in your post #10 where you thought Oanda was right for calling a stop order a "limit order." This is completely incorrect, and you or anyone can easily verify this on the NYSE tomorrow.

Simply use the scenario I used in post #20. Suppose you're waiting for a stock to break out on the upside, but you don't want to buy it until it does. The CORRECT order to place is a STOP order to buy above the market. Such an order won't fill until it's triggered. But if you place a LIMIT order to buy above the market (using Oanda's erroneous nomenclature) then the order will fill immediately, which is NOT your intention.

So just like the periodic table, my classification scheme predicts what will actually happen in the real world. It's not arguable, you can test it for yourself during any trading day.

Also, just like the periodic table, my classification scheme explains the real world phenomena of support and resistance (limit orders cause these) and sudden momentum increases (stop orders cause these).

Simply making a distinction between market orders and limit orders accomplishes neither of these.

Back to your side of the net sir!
 
 
  • Post #63
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  • Jun 7, 2008 10:05pm Jun 7, 2008 10:05pm
  •  capitalist88
  • Joined Oct 2006 | Status: Member | 1,070 Posts
*********OT OT OT***************

Merlin,

Wait a minute.... limits, SHLIMITS! Lifestyle change? What lifestyle change? Enquiring (sic) minds want to know! :nerd:

Is there a new job?
Did you discover lost treasure?
Is there a new Mrs. Wizard?

Whaaaat???

This could be the start of some great rumors!
 
 
  • Post #64
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  • Jun 13, 2008 3:48pm Jun 13, 2008 3:48pm
  •  merlin
  • Joined Mar 2004 | Status: Magic Man | 3,220 Posts
Quoting capitalist88
Disliked
Wait a minute.... limits, SHLIMITS! Lifestyle change? What lifestyle change?
Ignored
lets just say ive moved on to the really important things in life shoot me some mail.

as for our debate here, i obviously dont have the ability to show you the light. you will see it one day though, that im sure of
Relax and be happy.
 
 
  • Post #65
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  • Jun 13, 2008 9:21pm Jun 13, 2008 9:21pm
  •  capitalist88
  • Joined Oct 2006 | Status: Member | 1,070 Posts
Quoting merlin
Disliked
lets just say ive moved on to the really important things in life shoot me some mail.

as for our debate here, i obviously dont have the ability to show you the light. you will see it one day though, that im sure of
Ignored
See the light my frigid Norwegian ass! (I still crack up over that quote from the debt crisis toon you posted... )

Mail on the wayyyyyyy!!!
 
 
  • Post #66
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  • Aug 21, 2012 10:19am Aug 21, 2012 10:19am
  •  mazis12
  • | Joined Jan 2012 | Status: Member | 63 Posts
Quoting merlin
Disliked
not true!! i frequently place buy limit orders ABOVE the best offer, or a sell limit order below the best bid. obviously it gets filled right away (like a market order) because im willing to buy at a higher price than the cheapest person is willing to sell for. instant execution (without slippage past my limit price) is why i do this in the first place.
Ignored
Hi Merlin,
You're all experienced guy.... but one thing I want to say that when I put buy limit orders ABOVE the best offer or sell limit order BELOW the best bid, my orders don't get filled right away.

But you can get it. How? Can you please show me??
 
 
  • Post #67
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  • Last Post: Aug 15, 2014 4:59am Aug 15, 2014 4:59am
  •  gnomewizard
  • | Joined May 2014 | Status: Junior Member | 2 Posts
I'm hoping some experienced trader is still subscribed to this thread. Anyways heres my worry with the limit orders. For example, in my situation, buy limit can only be placed below the current price so you could say the best offer is just about the current price. The problem is what if the market is volatile and say i put a buy limit then the market trend went up for awhile before going down again then wouldnt it be better if I had just put a market order at a safe distance above the current price rather than at the best offer of the buy limit?

The thing is some people say it's always better to make use of limit orders. I want those experienced to enlighten me further based on the example I have given. And I don't know if my explanation is really making sense, hopefully it does. I'm kinda new here and I only hope I'm saying things correctly.
 
 
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