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Attachments: Attacking the problem of different timezones and the delay to enter trades
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Attacking the problem of different timezones and the delay to enter trades

  • #21
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  • Oct 6, 2006 9:13am Oct 6, 2006 9:13am
Quoting fukinagashi
Ok, I check it again. Back to the drawing-board
OK; here we go: Interested reders find attached the Next generation of my MoutekiLineDrawer.

To begin with, only valid points are recognized which are assured from both sides of the high/low.

And then as a special feature, the variable "FractalOfLevel" has been created. The level of the Fractal Point is the amount of candles to the left and right which should be lower or higher then the low/high. A Classic Mouteki Fractal has for example a level 2. For my experiment on the H1 timezone, we use Level 8 fractals to imitate H4 level 2 Fractals. The advantage? You can even create different setups, for example a M15 Level 32 Fractal ... Er if that makes sense.

Anywayfor the discussion within this thread I still propose H1 Level 8.

I agree with Burgerking, that there is a slightly higher insecurity with the entries, but I would like to attack that issue with Price action filters. I hope that I can push my analysis a but ahead during this weekend. Stay alert
  • #22
  • Quote
  • Oct 6, 2006 9:16am Oct 6, 2006 9:16am
I almost forgot the Indicator itself
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 MoutekLineNextGenH1.mq4   21 KB | 410 downloads
  • #23
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  • Oct 6, 2006 9:23am Oct 6, 2006 9:23am
Quoting fukinagashi
I almost forgot the Indicator itself

thanks a lot, your modification sounds intresting.
  • #24
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  • Oct 6, 2006 2:38pm Oct 6, 2006 2:38pm
I don't understand this thread. It seems to me there's a simple solution. Change your broker/charting software. "Duh, stupid, what an idiot" I can hear you now. But, really i'm not trying to be sarcastic or rude, but if you want to trade on higher charts or trade a system on higher charts that is based on standard gmt time shouldn't you change your broker/charting software, rather than try to make the one you have work. There's enough things to worry about and when you have simplicity in a system why make it any more difficult or confusing than it needs to be. I wouldn't trade on a package that wasn't based on a world standard even if I weren't trading Mouteki. Maybe I am missing something and again please understand I am not trying to be rude.
  • #25
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  • Oct 6, 2006 4:17pm Oct 6, 2006 4:17pm
In the inimitable words of Cramer, "booooyaaaaaaaaaah"

Agree with you 100% MNFX.

Quoting MNFX
I don't understand this thread. It seems to me there's a simple solution. Change your broker/charting software. "Duh, stupid, what an idiot" I can hear you now. But, really i'm not trying to be sarcastic or rude, but if you want to trade on higher charts or trade a system on higher charts that is based on standard gmt time shouldn't you change your broker/charting software, rather than try to make the one you have work. There's enough things to worry about and when you have simplicity in a system why make it any more difficult or confusing than it needs to be. I wouldn't trade on a package that wasn't based on a world standard even if I weren't trading Mouteki. Maybe I am missing something and again please understand I am not trying to be rude.
  • #26
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  • Oct 7, 2006 2:34am Oct 7, 2006 2:34am
One may wish to look deeper.

By solving this surface problem, it would remove the discrepancy of potentially contrasting patterns generated by 4 different time zones at any given time.
I am JuMPeR.
  • #27
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  • Oct 7, 2006 7:12am Oct 7, 2006 7:12am
Quoting MNFX
I don't understand this thread. It seems to me there's a simple solution. Change your broker/charting software. "Duh, stupid, what an idiot" I can hear you now. But, really i'm not trying to be sarcastic or rude, but if you want to trade on higher charts or trade a system on higher charts that is based on standard gmt time shouldn't you change your broker/charting software, rather than try to make the one you have work. There's enough things to worry about and when you have simplicity in a system why make it any more difficult or confusing than it needs to be. I wouldn't trade on a package that wasn't based on a world standard even if I weren't trading Mouteki. Maybe I am missing something and again please understand I am not trying to be rude.
I am not trying to be rude either, but I think you are missing something.

With the original Mouteki method that uses 4H timeframe, entry signals you get can be the result of one of the following regardless of what time zone your broker's server uses:

*The 4H candle closes below/above the trendline giving you entry signal. During the 4H period, all four 1H candles close below/above the trendline.

*The 4H candle closes below/above the trendline giving you entry signal. During the 4H period, three out of four 1H candles including the most recent one close below/above the trendline.

*The 4H candle closes below/above the trendline giving you entry signal. During the 4H period, two of four 1H candles including the most recent one close below/above the trendline.

*The 4H candle closes below/above the trendline giving you entry signal. During the 4H period, only one which is the most recent 1H candles in closes below/above the trendline.


Notice that in the last scenario, the price might move below/above the trendline minutes or even seconds before the 4H candle close yet you get a signal to enter.

Further study must be done using this 1H chart though it should somewhat improve the accuracy of signals you get from the Mouteki method if you take two or more consecutive 1H candle closes as entry signals. If not, then I guess that's just the way it is.

However, as the title says, the use of 1H timeframe solves the problem of people trading in different time zones (standardized solution to every Mouteki traders) and sets you up for entries at better timimg without compromising the integrity of the system.
To me, it's well worth the effort just to learn more about this system.

However, if simplicity appeals more than anything else to you, by all means please stick with it.
  • #28
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  • Oct 7, 2006 7:30am Oct 7, 2006 7:30am
Quoting Horace Kent
In the inimitable words of Cramer, "booooyaaaaaaaaaah"

Agree with you 100% MNFX.
I thought you were talking about filters for Mouteki Method elsewhere. I don't understand what made you post this one at all.
  • #29
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  • Oct 7, 2006 7:39am Oct 7, 2006 7:39am
Hi spartan,

This is what made me post this, and I quote:

"All trend line analysis will be done on the four hour chart compression. By process of elimination of all chart compressions, I have concluded that only the four hour compression is needed. The four hour compression generates less trend line breaks and more accurate price projections than any other time compression. All analysis shown of trend lines will be conducted of the four hour compression." (From Mouteki's 4 hour trendline document)
________________________

I think Mouteki has made it abundantly clear in this paragraph. Why reinvent a wheel that works?

The search for filters, on my part, is to find that which I KNOW, by Mouteki's own admission to me, has not been revealed. It is an effort to discover the complete system.

Quoting spartan
I thought you were talking about filters for Mouteki Method elsewhere. I don't understand what made you post this one at all.
  • #30
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  • Oct 7, 2006 8:12am Oct 7, 2006 8:12am
Hello,

Can someone refer me to a thread that explains this timezone problem with the mouteki method? I used StrategicBuilderFX4 as my MT4 charting software and I live in EST(United States) timezone.

Thank You
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  • #31
  • Quote
  • Oct 7, 2006 8:14am Oct 7, 2006 8:14am
Quoting MNFX
I don't understand this thread. It seems to me there's a simple solution. Change your broker/charting software.
You are right, but which broker to take? What is the correct timezone? Or should I take all 4 possible timezones, which would make up for the H4 candles? Then I am not far away of exactly what my indicator is supposed to do.

Quoting MNFX
"Duh, stupid, what an idiot" I can hear you now.
No, in the contrary. My approach to everything, professionally, private and here in my hobby is as yours maximum simplifcation.

Admitedly, there are limits to that, but at the beginning of this thread I actually asked myself the question: How can we simplify this issue of the H4 candles being necessary to give us strong breakout signals and at the same time not limiting us as a community to different timezones.

I am not saying "THAT IS THE SOLUTION" but I offer this an approach for discussion.

And in the end of the day, this is defintily a more simple solution then spreading out my money and transfering it to different brokers, some of them in timezones/countries where I really do not want to put money.

But again, dont get this as a bashing. I value any further simplifications to my theory.
  • #32
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  • Oct 7, 2006 8:26am Oct 7, 2006 8:26am
Quoting Horace Kent
I think Mouteki has made it abundantly clear in this paragraph. Why reinvent a wheel that works?

The search for filters, on my part, is to find that which I KNOW, by Mouteki's own admission to me, has not been revealed. It is an effort to discover the complete system.
The wheel works? Someone in London gets into a trade 4 HOURS before me! Oh, don't get me wrong, I might as well get into a trade 4 HOURS+ before this guy in london, just because we have ONE HOUR difference. Even more funny. Someone in america didn't even get close to trading because he didn't have valid fractals.

Horace, I know you are a clever guy. I had lucky trades with Mouteki and you had obviously as well , but just follow the discussions in the currency-pair threads, and you feel people are really speaking to themselves. "I have a sell on GBP", "No the trendlines is miles away", "Oh I am already long for 3 hours and just hit the target".

I aggree with you, H4 is necessary to filter. In my first approach I just tried to go down with 2nd level Fractals to H1 which just failed.

But you MUST admit that 8th level Fractals on H1 will come as close as anything to a global observation of the mouteki system, or you did not understand the implications of the timezones in relation if a H4 candle.

And don't think you americans are the belly button . If Mouteki actually trades in his timezone he has probaly GMT+3 which is very incompatible with americans .

So anyway, I am not saying that my suggestion is the end. We might need to have a special entry rule, something like an additional filter. But I am sure, we are very close.
  • #33
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  • Oct 7, 2006 8:41am Oct 7, 2006 8:41am
Everyone wants to get a signal earlier, hopefully its for the better. If you look at the GBPUSD Mouteki thread [post 390 and few posts earlier], I had indicated what the cross of the demand for the short of MIG and IBFX. I believe you have a good idea with fractals for the 1 hour chart, but I believe others feel that you are somewhat jumping in too early. I do agree with them since now you are not following Mouteki's method, but on the other hand, its good if we could get in early and not wait 4 hours. Like many other systems which uses higher timeframes, we get the signal once the move have already happen, and it may be too late since there is a potential reversal already happening by the time one wait for the higher TF candle to re-appear.....
  • #34
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  • Oct 7, 2006 10:02am Oct 7, 2006 10:02am
Hello,

I am sorry for my dumb questions since by reading these postings it seems that you understand the timezone problem...ok Iam learning and perhaps slower than you guys but... If I am looking at a completed 4hr candle (4am-7:59am) @8:00am est(u.s.a) and you are in a GMT+2 timezone and you are looking at a completed 4hr candle (11:00-14:59) @ 15:00... are we not looking at the same candle? Again forgive me for my lack of reasoning/knowledge
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  • #35
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  • Oct 7, 2006 10:08am Oct 7, 2006 10:08am
Let's look at what we know. Horace has recently quoted statements made by Mouteki about the system. We must assume what Mouteki says is true. So, if what he says is true this becomes fact. The fact is we trade on 4hr charts and no less. We know not to trade on anything lower than 4HR and GMT.
After looking at trade examples of Mouteki's charts we know he his trading gmt. I use a broker who uses metatrader. My chart candles match (from what I have seen) all of Mouteki's candles.
Bottom line is this is a world market that you should be trading on a world standard of gmt. Not gmt+1 or 4 with this strategy. I live in the States (God Bless the USA) and I don't go off of gmt -5 for Mouteki.
Which broker to take is up to you. I know there are many good ones out there. Just because your chart shows your local time does NOT mean that it's day ends at 24:00 am on your chart. I for example use 2 brokers and one is strictly gmt on my chart, while the other shows local time but the day ends at 4:00 pm (1600) my local time, which get this, If the day ends at 4:00 pm on my chart, which is 9:00 pm GMT!!!! Why do I use it? Because of one of the strategies I use. It fills extremely fast in fast moving markets and my spreads don't move. I generally trade on 1 hr or less timeframes and when looking at higher timeframes I don't study the cadnles, only the the greneral trend. I definately do NOT use it for higher timeframe trading, such as Mouteki, with which I use the other.

The Problems of Different Timezones = The Problem is Your Charting Software.
OR
The Probelm of Different Timezones = What Trading Strategy You Are Using.

Good luck to you all and please don't complicate the few simplicities you have for trading a dynamic market like this. Stick with the basics and you may surprise yourself.
  • #36
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  • Oct 7, 2006 1:26pm Oct 7, 2006 1:26pm
Yeah, I think all you have to do is find a charting software which is GMT, nothing more nothing less. You analyze there, and enter the trades on your brokers platform.
  • #37
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  • Oct 7, 2006 1:59pm Oct 7, 2006 1:59pm
I 2nd that.

turbo

Quoting TheWicker
Yeah, I think all you have to do is find a charting software which is GMT, nothing more nothing less. You analyze there, and enter the trades on your brokers platform.
  • #38
  • Quote
  • Oct 7, 2006 2:13pm Oct 7, 2006 2:13pm
Quoting 4rex
Hello,

I am sorry for my dumb questions since by reading these postings it seems that you understand the timezone problem...ok Iam learning and perhaps slower than you guys but... If I am looking at a completed 4hr candle (4am-7:59am) @8:00am est(u.s.a) and you are in a GMT+2 timezone and you are looking at a completed 4hr candle (11:00-14:59) @ 15:00... are we not looking at the same candle? Again forgive me for my lack of reasoning/knowledge

lol, i have been feeling the same way since this timezone stuff started being discussed, but was too embarrassed to say anything. frankly, i still don't understand why my chart would look any different from anybody's elses chart, except for minor diffs on broker feeds. btw, i use Neuimex
  • #39
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  • Oct 7, 2006 2:17pm Oct 7, 2006 2:17pm
Hello,

Vince-AC,

Glad to hear that I am not the only one...maybe you and I are like Dum & Dummer (like the movie) but it is very confusing to me. I wish someone could explain it in simple/basic term for us.
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  • #40
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  • Oct 7, 2006 2:56pm Oct 7, 2006 2:56pm
Explanation: Breakout not always apparent depending on what broker you base your H4 charts. They're is 4 slightly different charts depending on where is your broker server in the world. Some were lucky seeing the early monday breakout on gbp-usd, some didn't see it before price explosion.. and completly missed it. Worst went against...

That is why some try to make indicator better smoothing the 4 different set of trend line into one, over a H1 chart for more accuracy viewing. I appreciate that this matter is beeing adress and i look further in testing this indicator if some would make it available TIA.



Quoting 4rex
Hello,

Vince-AC,

Glad to hear that I am not the only one...maybe you and I are like Dum & Dummer (like the movie) but it is very confusing to me. I wish someone could explain it in simple/basic term for us.
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