Quoting GreatYvesDislikedExplanation: Breakout not always apparent depending on what broker you base your H4 charts. They're is 4 slightly different charts depending on where is your broker server in the world. Some were lucky seeing the early monday breakout on gbp-usd, some didn't see it before price explosion.. and completly missed it. Worst went against...
That is why some try to make indicator better smoothing the 4 different set of trend line into one, over a H1 chart for more accuracy viewing. I appreciate that this matter is beeing adress and i look further in testing this indicator if some would make it available TIA.Ignored
Explanation: Breakout not always apparent depending on what broker you base your H4 charts. They're is 4 slightly different charts depending on where is your broker server in the world. Some were lucky seeing the early monday breakout on gbp-usd, some didn't see it before price explosion.. and completly missed it. Worst went against...
That is why some try to make indicator better smoothing the 4 different set of trend line into one, over a H1 chart for more accuracy viewing. I appreciate that this matter is beeing adress and i look further in testing this indicator if some would make it available TIA.
First of all thank you for your explanation, at least one person is trying to help us. It is still not clear to me... Ok, What do you mean four different charts? Do you mean that they start their 4hr candles at different times? I guess what is not clear is WHY the 4hr candles are different because the server are in a different part of the world/timezone? I can't picture the difference! The buying and selling on early Monday (as you chose to explain) is happening at that particular moment in time/space everywhere in the world...the only difference is what our watch says is our local time.
Blah, Blah, Blah,,,,boy am I dumb or what! maybe is so simple that I can't grasp it!
Thank You
All 4 1 and 1 4 All
Hi spartan,
This is what made me post this, and I quote:
"All trend line analysis will be done on the four hour chart compression. By process of elimination of all chart compressions, I have concluded that only the four hour compression is needed. The four hour compression generates less trend line breaks and more accurate price projections than any other time compression. All analysis shown of trend lines will be conducted of the four hour compression." (From Mouteki's 4 hour trendline document)
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I think Mouteki has made it abundantly clear in this paragraph. Why reinvent a wheel that works?
The search for filters, on my part, is to find that which I KNOW, by Mouteki's own admission to me, has not been revealed. It is an effort to discover the complete system.
What we are trying to do here is not reinventing the wheel rather it is fine tuning it or trying different gear ratios to see if it can show us something.
As you say, Mouteki found out that 4-hour conpression is needed to avoid false trendline breaks and to give more accurate price projection and in this thread, we are not reinventing his findings.
By using 20-hour high or low of 1H candle to draw trendlines, you are taking advantage of his findings in terms of avoiding false trendline breaks and projecting accurate price projection but at the same time attempting to solve problems associated with the use of 4H timeframe.
With that said, please see my last post describing disadvantage of using only 4H chart to trigger trades and this will also give us the same signals for everyone trading the method which is not the case with the original method.
I hope that you understand what we are doing here. What we are trying to do here is to bring out the best of both 1H and 4H timeframes.
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To those who find this thread offensive for some reasons:
I am not trying to be rude or offend anyone but if anyone finds this thread beyond his/her comprehension then that's your problem so please either read the thread carefully to understand what we really are doing here or simply ignore and go to other threads.
I wish to have only constructive discussion going in this thread.
Thanks.
GreatYves,
First of all thank you for your explanation, at least one person is trying to help us. It is still not clear to me... Ok, What do you mean four different charts? Do you mean that they start their 4hr candles at different times? I guess what is not clear is WHY the 4hr candles are different because the server are in a different part of the world/timezone? I can't picture the difference! The buying and selling on early Monday (as you chose to explain) is happening at that particular moment in time/space everywhere in the world...the only difference is what our watch says is our local time.
Blah, Blah, Blah,,,,boy am I dumb or what! maybe is so simple that I can't grasp it!
Thank You
Firstly, a 4H candle tells you 4 things: opening price, closing price, highest price, and lowest price in the 4-hour time period you are refering to.
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Let's say your chart is set to GMT(or +4, +8, -4, -8...) so what the candle you are looking at is telling you is that the opening price, closing price, highest price and lowest price were as such from one of the following time periods:
0:00 GMT to 4:00 GMT, 4:00 GMT to 8:00 GMT, 8:00 GMT to 12:00 GMT
12:00 GMT to 16:00 GMT, 16:00 GMT to 20:00 GMT, and 20:00 GMT to 0:00 GMT
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However, your friends using timezone GMT +1, +5, +9, -3, -7 and so forth, they are getting a slightly different set of data because their 4H candles are telling them the openings, closings, highests, lowests of the following time periods:
23:00 GMT to 3:00 GMT, 3:00 GMT to 7:00 GMT, 7:00 GMT to 11:00 GMT
11:00 GMT to 15:00 GMT, 15:00 GMT to 19:00 GMT, and 19:00 GMT to 23:00 GMT.
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And your friends using timezone GMT +2, +6, +10, -2, -6 and so forth, they are getting a slightly different set of data because their 4 H candles are telling them the openings, closings, highests, lowests of the following time periods:
22:00 GMT to 2:00 GMT, 2:00 GMT to 6:00 GMT, 6:00 GMT to 10:00 GMT, 10:00 GMT to 14:00 GMT, 14:00 GMT to 18:00 GMT, 18:00 GMT to 22:00 GMT.
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Finally, your friends using the timezone GMT +3, +7, +11, -1, -5, -9 and so forth, they are getting a slightly different set of data because their 4 H candles are telling them the openings, closings, highests, lowests of the following time periods:
21:00 GMT to 1:00 GMT, 1:00 GMT to 5:00 GMT, 5:00 GMT to 9:00 GMT, 9:00 GMT to 13:00 GMT, 13:00 GMT to 17:00 GMT, and 17:00 GMT to 21:00 GMT
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Since they get different set of opening, closing, high and low of candles, the aforementioned four group of traders get slightly diffrent candle formations thus occasionaly give you different entry signals, or same signal but at 4 different timings.
Hope this helps.
Hello,
Spartan,
Yes, I finally got it. Thank you very much for taking the time to clarify it for me and Vince-AC and the rest of members who were following our questions. And thank you Spartan for the charts. My next post will be to ask if there is a broker in the U.S with a demo account using MT4 with an eastern standard time. But I will create a new post and not interrupt the flow of this thread.
Thanks again
Spartan,
Yes, I finally got it. Thank you very much for taking the time to clarify it for me and Vince-AC and the rest of members who were following our questions. And thank you Spartan for the charts. My next post will be to ask if there is a broker in the U.S with a demo account using MT4 with an eastern standard time. But I will create a new post and not interrupt the flow of this thread.
Thanks again
All 4 1 and 1 4 All
Hello,
Spartan,
Yes, I finally got it. Thank you very much for taking the time to clarify it for me and Vince-AC and the rest of members who were following our questions. And thank you Spartan for the charts. My next post will be to ask if there is a broker in the U.S with a demo account using MT4 with an eastern standard time. But I will create a new post and not interrupt the flow of this thread.
Thanks again
I wasn't the one who posted the chart though.
I don't think anything you stated is anywhere close to being relative with any of my points.
First, it is not your system or mine and maybe it isn't even Mouteki's. But Mouteki is explaining the way he utilizes this strategy so it is just that, Mouteki Trading. So my friend you are very wrong laughing at my comment about Mouteki and fact. We can only know what we were told on how he utilizes supply & demand on 4HR charts (which happen to GMT based). Though it may not be the whole story it is the story as it is today and my friend that is fact, it is what is or whatever you want to call it.
I fully understand your statment about 4HR charts, but you obviously didn't read my previous posts. GMT is GMT time and when trading higher time frames anything over 1HR it would behoove you to trade a charting software using anything but GMT based in my honest unprofessional opinion. This is just silly. QUALIFIER: Except unless your you are trading your own specific strategy based on your specific rules based on your own timezone whatever it may be.
Lastly, I am not a very religous person, but I do know one thing. THE GREATEST TRICK THE DEVIL EVER PLAYED ON MORTAL MAN WAS TO MAKE THEM BELIEVE HE DOESN'T EXIST. How you like them apples?
I apologize if I offended you with my LOL.
If you wish to trade the Mouteki method blindedly, then I guess it's good for you.
As I said earlier, it is my wish that this thread is used for what is relevant to this thread. I'd appreciate your cooperation.
Just felt I had to join in on this one having raised the issue some weeks ago. For those saying that using a 1 hour chart is not Moutiki, they are wrong, it is very much Moutiki. Forget the 4 hour thing and think of the principal. We are looking for the extremes of price action in a 20 hour period in order to identify the highs and/or lows within a trend. We are then saying that when a [trend] line joining these identified extremes is breached we have a possible break of trend and an entry point. 4 hour charts are simply a convenient way of charting this but does give 4 differing signals and with it 4 different targets and associated stop loss. For Moutiki (the person) I suspect he is not bothered by this. If a signal shows on his chart and not on one in mid-west <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region><st1
lace>USA</st1lace></st1:country-region> so what? Other times it will be the other way round. He simply plays the charts as he sees them.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o></o>
The consequences of 4 hour charts is dire. I run several 4 hour charts offset by time zones and have had totally conflicting entry signals on the same instrument at the same new 4 hour bar used for entry. Clearly one of them is wrong! (if not both).<o></o>
It seems to me that one hour charts must be the way to go. I think the relevant point should be the extreme in 20 hours so I would count 10 bars either side, not 8. Entry into a position can not therefore occur until at least 10 hours after the last extreme and this is a problem. Moutiki can show an entry just 8 hours after the last extreme and he makes it clear that delay can cause you to miss the opportunity. Of course this is not always the case but I do no know what to do about this problem.<o></o>
Whatever we end up with will still never be 100%, in fact as Moutiki stands I have made more pips playing the absolute reverse than playing with the method. This is simply because, as my back testing revealed, there are more false signals than correct ones. When Moutiki method is correct it usually picks up an entry part way through what turns out to be a change of trend and if the target is good you pick up all of the back half of that change.<o></o>
lace>USA</st1lace></st1:country-region> so what? Other times it will be the other way round. He simply plays the charts as he sees them.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o></o>The consequences of 4 hour charts is dire. I run several 4 hour charts offset by time zones and have had totally conflicting entry signals on the same instrument at the same new 4 hour bar used for entry. Clearly one of them is wrong! (if not both).<o
></o>It seems to me that one hour charts must be the way to go. I think the relevant point should be the extreme in 20 hours so I would count 10 bars either side, not 8. Entry into a position can not therefore occur until at least 10 hours after the last extreme and this is a problem. Moutiki can show an entry just 8 hours after the last extreme and he makes it clear that delay can cause you to miss the opportunity. Of course this is not always the case but I do no know what to do about this problem.<o
></o>Whatever we end up with will still never be 100%, in fact as Moutiki stands I have made more pips playing the absolute reverse than playing with the method. This is simply because, as my back testing revealed, there are more false signals than correct ones. When Moutiki method is correct it usually picks up an entry part way through what turns out to be a change of trend and if the target is good you pick up all of the back half of that change.<o
></o> This space intentionally left blank.
hi fukinagashi,
your indicator which you made is great but it has a small glitch, it removes always all objects from the chart. if i draw some other trendlines or fib retracement or horizontal lines or any object, then they all disappear after a few seconds.
is there any way how to fix it, if it isnt to much work?
it would be great
your indicator which you made is great but it has a small glitch, it removes always all objects from the chart. if i draw some other trendlines or fib retracement or horizontal lines or any object, then they all disappear after a few seconds.
is there any way how to fix it, if it isnt to much work?
it would be great
- | Joined Jun 2006 | Status: ©u®r€nc¥ Ana£¥$t & T®ad£r | 464 Posts
I am not trying to be rude or offend anyone but if anyone finds this thread beyond his/her comprehension then that's your problem so please either read the thread carefully to understand what we really are doing here or simply ignore and go to other threads.
I wish to have only constructive discussion going in this thread.
Thanks.
best,
HK
