Why isn't everyone rich?

I'm relatively new to Forex trading. I've been doing a lot of reading and it's helped develop my perspective of all of this. After looking on myfxbook.com at some of the systems and EA's people use, it doesn't appear to be uncommon for people to have a monthly ROI of over 3%. Some are a lot higher, actually... unless I'm reading it wrong?

The way I see it, as long as people aren't making withdrawals, then there's no reason they can't be earning tens of thousands a month in just a few years... even with a modest initial deposit. So what am I missing?

What you are missing is forex trading is a zero sum game. After spread/commission/slippage actually a less than true zero sum game. For one person to profit someone else must lose.

What Percival said is true. Let me elaborate.

Everyone has had wins and losses. Some persons don't like to post their details for various reasons. I won't brag because I'm not "rich". So here's the thing......

All persons get interested in Forex for various reasons - some because of the potential money (most maybe) and some because it's something they like. In the end, as stated, for someone to win someone has to lose. There are various approaches but there is nothing guaranteed.

Of the many approaches I'd like to highlight two that usually follow each other.

The initial phase where persons join and either purchase systems and EAs to be lazy, or learn simple things that work but they don't know why. You can trade a MA cross and be successful as long as it's done in context. But there is nothing automated or excessively rigid (as in trading rules) that work. You have to be flexible to the situations, but there are some rules you shouldn't break - such as constantly moving your SL when things go against you.

The secondary phase comes in when either you've had big wins (followed by losses sometimes) or big losses. At this point you either grit your teeth and decide to go at it properly and research or you abandon it. There was something posted by a friend elsewhere previously - I'm just going to leave it below. I'd probably ramble on and on - and it gets to the point far better than I would.

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5 Steps to becoming a consistently profitable Forex trader from experience.

STEP 1 – Not knowing what the hell you are doing!
You have read and heard that forex trading is a “Get Rich Quick” or at least, a fantastic way to make easy money from all the Marketing Promotions (SCAMS) you see and read out there – you know, the ones with a handsome $millionaire guy with his arm around a drop dead beautiful busty blonde in a short skirt leaning on his red Ferrari outside his 12 room mansion overlooking the Pacific Ocean.
So, you jump in at the deep end (read trade) with both feet and subsequently drown – because you couldn’t swim! (Couldn’t trade). Bad luck – it won’t happen next time you think. PRICE only goes up or down so what’s the big deal, how hard can it be? Anyone can do it – right?
When you jumped in at the deep end, you didn’t know that you couldn’t swim (trade). You then realise you haven’t got a clue what the hell you are doing. You take lots and lots of trades all with huge RISK. Those trades go AGAINST you so you have the bright idea to REVERSE and trade in the opposite direction only for PRICE to turn back again………and again………..and again….and again……..and again etc., etc.
You will probably get one or two right “eventually” but at what cost of LOSING the rest? However, this is the TRADING DEVIL telling you that it really is this simple and so you start to trade more, RISK more and LOSE more money.
Then you read something about Money Management and “Doubling Up” which you believe is the missing piece to your trading jigsaw. So you start trying to recover your LOSSES by doubling up on them each time you trade. You may be lucky doing that one time but in the end you will LOSE twice as much money! You still don’t get that you know diddly squat about how to trade forex so you continue to trade until eventually the Market sucks you in and blows you out in bubbles wiping you out and taking ALL your money!
Then comes the next step:

STEP 2 – Not knowing that you don’t know what you don’t know or, to give it a fancy name, Conscious Incompetence
This is a light bulb moment when you realise there is a lot more work involved in trading than you first thought and that you might have to start reading, learning and understanding about trading. You finally accept that you can’t make a profit trading forex.
Problem solved – buy “Get Rich Quick” trading systems, ebooks, software, join public forex Forums – search for the MOTHER of ALL HOLY GRAIL systems from all corners of the Earth.
Before you know it, you are an “expert” in trading systems and start HOPPING from one method and system to another day by day, week by week, month by month, year by year never trading one long enough to give it AND YOU, chance to SEE it is profitable.
Each time you find an indicator with more flashing lights and bells and whistles than the last one you will believe that THIS is the ONE to make money for you. You will mess with Fibonacci, support and resistance, supply and demand, Pivots, Fractals, Divergence, Price Action, ADX, RSI, MACD, CCI, DMI etc., etc., and everything you can get your LOSING hands on hoping that the next “thing” is what works. You will be such an “expert” with your “indicators” that you will start to pick tops and bottoms trying to trade when PRICE reverses. Losing trades won’t matter because you will always add to them because NOW you know you are RIGHT!
Eventually, after more LOSING, you will subscribe to a “live chat room” which you are led to believe is full of Professional Traders trading for their living. You still don’t understand what the hell they are doing so you ask numerous “newbie” questions to the point that everyone ignores you. Then you start not believing what they are doing and the profits they are making and doubt their abilities because, after all, you know as much as them and they must be lying about how much they are making. If I’m doing what they are doing and I’m LOSING how can they be winning? Finally, someone takes you under their wing and gives you good advice but by now you are a stubborn idiot and ignore that advice and continue trading your way because you believe you know better.
You then read about signals and signal services so you pay for that but, that doesn’t work either. Then you decide to stump up $thousands to attend courses held by those “famous” $multi-millionaire traders. But it all goes in one ear and out the other because, stubbornly, you know it won’t work and you really know best.
This goes on for years and years because you are now ADDICTED to trading and you are sure you can beat this thing. Eventually, you either give up or you TROLL public Forums still searching for the MOTHER of ALL HOLY GRAIL systems.
Statistics show that 60% to 75% of new traders give up after 3 to 6 months. Another 15% continue in the hope of becoming $millionaires only to wipe out their account. The remaining % stubbornly continue for around 3 years without success with a very small part of that % eventually moving on to being consistently profitable.
Your addiction to trading takes you into Step 3

STEP 3 - The “Eureka” Moment
At the end of Step 2 you realise that if trading really was easy, we would all be $millionaires!
You begin to realise that success in trading is more about “YOU” and that “YOU” could make money with a really simple moving average system. You realise that Money Management and Trading Psychology really has a BIG PART to play in being profitable at trading. You buy, read and listen to everything you can find on Trading Psychology, and, what do you know, they are talking about YOU! Light bulbs flash at the speed of light and your Trading Brain kicks in to tell you that being profitable in trading is all about YOU and not the system, method or whatever. It’s no wonder you can’t find anything that works for you.
You FINALLY realise that, just like Dr Joe, the NASA Rocket Scientist, who planned spaceship trajectories and moon landings, YOU cannot accurately predict what the Market will do either in the next 5 minutes, the next day or the next month. Then you realise that NO-ONE else can either! So since THEY can’t, YOU stop listening to them or reading others who think they can.
Knowing that it is now YOU who is responsible for your profitability and not the system or method, you find one of your systems or methods that has a good record of winning and you feel comfortable with and FOCUS 100% on it upside down and inside out until you completely UNDERSTAND it. You FINALLY stop looking at other threads and systems because now you HAVE found the HOLY GRAIL which YOU now know is who stares back at you when you look in the mirror. Then, you paper trade it because you know that Broker demos are highly manipulated and encourage you to win. Then you move onto trading LIVE with your REAL, hard earned money. You don’t get angry when you lose because you know it is just the cost of doing Business. You now know your method so well that if you exercise correct Money Management practices your winners will be much greater than your losers.
Next, you start looking at your trading results in a different way. You are no longer concerned with daily or weekly performance because now you know losing trades do not make a poor system and so move onto monthly performance. Then you finally realise you have an “edge” that you have heard others talk about but more important, know that “”YOU”” are the edge! Then you start to go over proper Money Management, Leverage, Risk, Trading Psychology etc., but this time, you finally UNDERSTAND it and it soaks into your sponge of a trading brain. Then you smile when you think back to when you didn’t understand it because now you know you were not ready then, but you are now. Then you sit back and accept that all this happened because you finally realized and accepted that it was not about the system or method but YOU.

Step 4 – Walking on Water
Now you are taking trades when you SEE your system set up. You let your winners run and cut your losers early. You take the losses on your chin and just move onto the next trade. You know that YOU and your system make more money than it loses. You go from breaking even to making a few pips profit to making THOUSANDS of pips profit and think you are now the World’s Best Forex Trader. Then you start to lose focus and stop paying attention to everything that got you to where you are at this point and start taking trades that aren’t there. Then you start losing more than you are winning and your confidence begins to suffer. This makes you think the Market has changed and your system is no longer suitable for it so you begin to doubt it. Then you lose confidence in it. Then your profits and performance begin to spiral down out of control. Then someone tells you that you are trying to “Walk On Water” and that the last guy who tried that got hung and nailed on a cross. You finally wake up and realise that you had forgotten that your performance is all about YOU, not the system or Market so you beat yourself up and go back to Step 3

Step 5 - Autopilot
Eventually, you avoid Walking on Water again and get back to profitable trading and then move on to Autopilot trading. You have become Consistently Profitable and you are now trading at an unconscious level or “In The Zone”. You ignore “noise” on all trading forums because you have mastered your emotions and are in total control.
You are now a “Star” to others and help them with their trading and questions. You don’t want to pass on your “secrets” because you are frightened of them misusing them. You then become a “Mentor” to many and freely pass on your advice although you know most of it will be wasted on “Get Rich Quick” newbies. Some though stick at it and listen to you and will get to where you are at but most, 95%, will never get past Step 2
Trading then becomes boring for you just like everything you do that has no challenges. You begin to spend more time helping others reach your trading status to relieve the boredom. This helps you because they ask you things which you do by instinct or now take for granted so it refreshes you and your memory.
You get to the point that, when once you were proud of telling anyone that you are a consistently profitable forex trader, you don’t even care or bother now since it’s just a job like any other – except on your terms..

SUMMARY
Statistic say that only 5% who attempt Forex trading make it. My experience is around 2%
Ability is not the reason for success in trading. It is drive, dedication, perseverance and the way you treat, access and process new information and knowledge. More than anything, it is about YOU. YOU as a person and YOU as a trader. Trading reveals more information about you and your personality than any test I know.
The losers are the “Get Rich Quickers” with “blinkers” who couldn’t see the obvious when it was staring them in their face, by not accepting new information.
Being a consistently profitable trader is no different from being a successful heart surgeon or a top prosecuting lawyer – both require that you do an apprenticeship of learning and understanding. How long that apprenticeship is depends on the individual and how soon he realises that it is about HIM and not the system. On average this is taking around 3 years.
Many don’t believe it will take that long and go back to Step 2 and go round and round in circles until eventually they disappear up their own chuff!
How many thousands and thousands of hours studying thousands and thousands of charts would you study if you knew, from proof, that there was a $million a year job at the end of it?

Forex is not a zero sum game, it's a positive sum game, it's one great big Ponzi scheme, if you look at the statistics of the increase in turnover etc, you will find that you have money coming from nowhere, this only happens in Ponzi schemes, it can only be done since it's decentralised.

... because 99% of traders trade using 50/50 price indicators. even people using naked charts are still just 50/50.
Price goes up into bollinger band, shows overbought rsi and div macd.
Absolute SELL right? has to be a sell the price is so HIGH!!
LOL this is why traders lose. PRICE has NOTHING to do with VALUE. biggest RORT ever. Not one person on youtube or the mainstream is teaching technical analysis properly to show you value. As i said IF you are awesome at risk management and psychology you could make a go of it using price indis BUT gee you make life hard on yourself.



so if you dont understand how your market is valued then stop trading, UNLESS you are awesome at risk management and psychology and somehow make 50/50 price discounts work.

Best ponzi I've been in.

Off topic, about the zero sum game myth, ...what if the PBoChina buys a huge amount of 10 year bonds, or huge amount of steel from US?
How can a sane person believe that is something outside and paralell with that over-the-counter book?!

Do you think the real economy huge money flows doesn't count for the FX charts?!
Forex pairs rates actually reflects import-export activity !!!
At least that was the main purpose...
...then banks activity.. then huge funds, financial institutions, central banks, Big Dogs private investors and speculators ........and at last, the retail brokers & traders brave army

sounds like my journey..lol.. this is call REALITY

I am a really new trader, and I am loving the replies to this thread.

I agree with what @khat17 has said, myself I am experiencing these stages. But I believe master one Strategy and continuously adapting yourself with this strategy cutting out noise is the only way to 'success'.

@EXpRINCE, as a Junior member I can not PM you but I have some questions, I see you are also based in my country. If possible can you contact me?

@Dasilvja, don't focus on the ROI or monetary aspect itself. Believe it as an afterthought, and question your passion to the market itself. The money will flow.

FX isn't a get rich quick scheme.. Its a long term game.. As soon as you learn this.. you will start winning.
I don't know anybody who got rich quick trading fx. Only bitcoin traders get rich or poor quick (and thats gambling, not trading).
First 5 years is just learning the game.. Don''t expect to make anything and keep it in first 5 years.
it takes 10,000 + hours of practice to be good at anything that require skill.

This whole question is flawed.. Hopefully some who have put in 5 years are starting too see a profit each month. If they put the time and effort in, and found an edge. Some will take longer to get profitable. Some will never be.

I always like to compare traders to singers. Look at all the singing television show competitions. Look at all the people that audition, yet only a handful get TV time. Imagine how many others never make the auditions. Look at all the youtube videos. Look at all the karaoke bars. Everyone thinks they can sing, but very few make a living from doing it.

It is suggested that any business in America has a 95% failure rate. So, perhaps Forex trading also has a 95% failure rate to match those statistics? Forex trading is defined as comparing the exchange rate of currencies between two countries based on a perceived economical value. That value is based on human perception, often related to human output. Even an automated equation was written by a human, and obviously every other trade is created by a human. If you ignore the exchange rate of Forex, and instead consider how it is created, then you realize it is developed by humans, millions of humans, spending trillions of dollars. How many of these humans do you know? How many of these humans tell you their buy/sell decisions before they do them? If you think about it, your personal Forex trading skills are really directed at observing and predicting the actions of millions of humans and being correct in your analysis. So, really, you have chosen just about the hardest occupation in the world. You have to monitor a crowd as it walks down a sidewalk, and at each street intersection determine if it will go forward, turn right, turn left, turn around, or just stand there for awhile. Not only that, but each person has a different amount of money in their pocket and you need to follow the ones with the most. That is the essence of the "trading" portion of Forex. So, it is comical to hear that someone NEVER loses, uses naked charts, or uses past highs/lows to figure out what will happen next, LOL.

It sounds like doom and gloom, but like nearly everything else in life, it can be measured. It can be measured because the money value can be measured. Trading may involve emotions, lol, but no one measures them. They measure the money. It is simply a matter of grouping buyers and sellers and comparing them against each other. When done correctly, your population data is the amount of money that moves, not the number of people nor the number of transactions those people make. It is important to understand how a trade is accepted by the market so you can develop the method of measurement. Some people have, but most have not.

Who are all these Forex traders? What experience do they have with predicting the behavior of other people? What experience do they have in creating businesses? What experience do they have with creating goals and milestones? What experience do they have self-motivating themselves to work independently? What experience do they have working without a product, service, customer, or boss? What experience do they have in creating compounding streams of income? What experience do they have in investing? In trading? In economics? What experience do they have in graphing, Trigonometry, Geometry, Statistical Analysis, and/or Quantitative Analysis?

What are you missing then? You are looking at statistics of a handful of traders. Of all the traders using myfxbook, you are looking at the ones the site has created an algorithm to display as a marketing tool for you to join or click their site. It is not representative of the majority of traders. How could it be? There are very few of us that have the skills to trade and make it a career. It is like any other occupation; either you take the time to master it, or you do not. The ROI's you see on that site are not representative of the majority of traders. I would dare to assume it is probably only 1/2% of all traders on that site, as it is my experience that only about 1/2% are successful enough to make millions a day/month/year. Only a handful make it, just like any other high income occupation...CEO, top athlete, famous actor/singer, brain surgeon, astronaut, profitable trader, etc. Good Luck.

Indicators and fib ratios etc are there to build a strategy around to keep probability in your favor, not to predict anything.
Probability lies with the trend, timing the entries, having a plan on when to get out and proper money management.

Predictions based upon fundamentals are something to confirm the strategy direction or to look back upon when there is uncertainty, not for timing the entries.

Look at it this way, brokers are now obligated to share the amount of people losing money, most brokers are at about 80% losers.
This means 20% makes money. There is nothing that states you can't be one of the 20%... and when people talk about it being difficult or impossible it's just that there is something THEY do wrong, and like khat said, the Eureka moment hasn't come yet.
Knowing when NOT to trade, that's the skill.

That's all it is.

Looking for professional help uhum ok... probably it helps (but it's expensive).
Combining the things you learn from various sources and using those things that work and testing them over time to create your own belief about the market and your own edge over it is also possible. It takes time to do that, but it isn't impossible...

Like stated before, a strategy that does the same thing every time like a crossing MA sometimes works and sometimes it doesn't. It comes from knowing WHEN to use it as an entry signal, and when to keep out of it..
There are more factors in play, and it requires expierence.

Also, define what 'Making it' means...
When do you Make it? What's the goal?
Being consitent in your profits, yes. That doens't mean you can't experience big drawdowns.. When do you know that? After 100 trades? 1000 trades?
That is why money management is so important, market factors may be in you favor right now but against you tomorrow..
Managing money is there to stay in the game.

It's a lifestyle, not a get rich quick and blow your money away kinda thing..

Grtz

I've won and lost at Forex. I've made 400% one month and then lost 60% the next. Still ahead of the original deposit by more than 100%, but based on what I've personally seen and done, it's very doable to make money.

Much like my own scenario, there are problems in the way people trade that are related to greed, fear and inexperience.

On a personal note, I've lost quite a bit by looking for mentors. Many of the persons selling systems and tips are scams. Some are selling what works for them, but there is a problem with that. Everyone is different.

I've tried both technical and fundamental analysis and had success at both. Being a hands in person in IT, I find that my experiences lead me to liking technical analysis more. Does this mean I don't check for upcoming news? Absolutely not! Without taking different things into consideration you can't have success.

With fundamentals the market direction may change temporarily or permanently.

Technically you may ignore fundamentals at times based on the chart you're monitoring and the fact that many times the longer term direction overrules everything else.

Price action and market make methods gives great insight, but much like everything else such as retracements and MAs, you must trade patterns and indicators in context.

Market sentiment can't be predicted and breaking news can't be anticipated. You need to have a good entry with reasonably placed stops and good money management. Don't add to losing positions. Stack winning trades using whatever method you like. Cut losses when you see that you're wrong. Accept that you are wrong at times. Regardless of how good you are you will have some losses. I hated seeing red in my history when I had a profit factor of 4.X on another account. Now? I'm up 23% since December 23 and I don't care much about the reds. That's my latest test account.

For me, I find a passion in Forex as much as my love for IT. Making money is a plus. Learning more fascinates me. I do wish that the forums had more people that were willing to teach and share - would have saved me so lot of heartache and cash. But it's part of the process.

I wish you all good pips for the new year. I hope all newbies learn its not the dollar value or even the percentage that matters - it's pips. How many pips did you make?

I grew my account by 23% on 86.3 pips. Losses were in there as well. But 86.3 pips can be $40+, $100+, or even $800+ depending on your lot size and risk. Why don't we teach this?

I am no expert or millionaire trader - just a guy that trades for fun and learning. Let me say that there is no magic formula. There is no 100% system. And while you can find some EAs that are good, nothing automated is going to be completely hands off. Forex just doesn't work that way.

Study and find the style that suits you. Refine it and construct your rules. Stick to them. Figure the scenarios that work and don't work. Then trade less hours (smarter) and don't stay up pampering trades (harder). If you're full time then maybe you have the time to do so, but if it's a hobby or casual then don't overwork yourself. If you're passionate about it then put as much as you want into it, but don't expect unreasonable results. Not everyone can do 100% weekly. Not everyone can do 30% monthly. Find what works for you and stick to it. Don't go jumping into different systems before you give the one you developed (or purchased) a fair chance.

That's my 0.00001 lot.

Olaa how can i be of assistance?...what do you wanna ask?

This thread Subject isn't meant for the questions I have, I feel moderators will get annoyed. (It is more regarding your views about shared knowledge etc...)

Can you not PM me?

I've just added my current test account to my trade explorer so it can be seen that I'm not lying about my current returns.

Set a target number of pips. If going for medium or longer term trades, once in profit by 20-30 pips either take the profits or move stop to break even (or small profit) and let it run.

Once you've assigned your rules don't break them - especially your SL. Even if it gets hit it's better to analyze after and see what you did wrong. Depending on where things are, you may get a better entry after being stopped out.

Adapt and grow. Refine your strategies. Then once you see things are profitable, wash, rinse, repeat.

Market sentiment can't be predicted - what is market sentiment?

The basic logic in trading in any instruments Stocks , Bonds , Options , Futures etc where traders go Long or Short is very simple

Those who have strategy will never never never be on forums or give tips and those who have nothing to do and all the time in the world or are just trying and testing their strategies at the cost of other people's loss will and do keep on sharing there strategies and half baked plans.

Those who are rich and successful you will never find this class of people on the forum discussing trading strategies or plans so you don't connect with them that does not mean they DO NOT EXIST

Accept it or Reject it its your choice

What an ignorant statement

Over the years I've come across traders who are successful that post on here and other forums. Sure, they don't post as much but saying that they avoid forums like the plague just shows how ignorant you are.

Pro traders are human beings like the rest of us. From time to time they want to connect online. And yes some do have egos like the rest of us. Forums are just one of many social media where they come and connect like Twitter, discord, etc

So the point is, you have to look little harder in the buried useless posts and threads on here to find the bits of gems that can help you in your trading

No issues brother i was just posting in the correlation to the subject of this thread

" Why isn't everyone rich?"

The successful money minting pro's may throw some bits and pieces here and there but no one ever post's a successful trading plan from there kitty Or you can give me a example of " buried useless posts and threads " or you seem to be successful trader from your " All Time Profit: $53,426" will you post your trading plan with entry and exit rules here on the forum which can be helpful to all the members of the forum or still you believe in what you have written as your motto on your post " I trade so I can take your money away "