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Attachments: Anyone have info on International Capital Markets? (IC Markets)
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Anyone have info on International Capital Markets? (IC Markets)

  • Post #1
  • Quote
  • First Post: Edited 3:03am Mar 23, 2012 12:52am | Edited 3:03am
Hi there. Looking for a Broker that meets many requirements:

- Accepts USA/Canadian clients
- Prefer DMA w/ STP, ECN w/ DMA okay
- Regulated by a trusted entity, preferably funds are insured
- Has Forex, CFD's, Indices, Futures/eminis, Metals and Energy (Stocks/ETF's a bonus)
- Low Spreads or raw or fixed
- Fast fills, NO requotes and min/no slippage
- Has 50:1 minimum leverage, more is better
- Allows scalping
- Allows hedging, has not adopted NFA or FIFO rules
- Allows EA's, has not adopted NFA or FIFO rules
- No ridiculous rollovers, swaps or commissions
- Can be funded with EUR, USD or GBP
- MT4 a bonus (although after reading this thread: http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=70582 I'm really leary about MT4 now )

I searched the forum and could not find any info on the Broker? in the title.

Website says been around since 2007, and they seem to meet my VERY stringent requirements for the most part, although some of things can only be answered with people that actually have experience with them hence the thread.

I came up with this broker by doing an advanced search and plugging in most of my requirements on this webite:

http://www.100forexbrokers.com/fx/broker_results.php

The search does say they are regulated by ASIC, Australian Securities and Investments Commission

Something else I found strange, is it almost appears this Broker? is a middleman of sorts. When you go to the platform options, it lists the following:

MetaTrader
Ninja Trader
Strategy Runner
eSignal
Meta Stock
thinkorswim
Interactive Brokers
Marketcetera

They seem to have VERY good reviews here: http://www.100forexbrokers.com/revie...ings/icmarkets (although reviews on just any site can be suspect)

Edit - Note also, the fact they are SO unknown, seems suspect and this thread ALSO seems suspect http://www.forexpeacearmy.com/forex-...markets-4.html

Edit - I also found by more searching that: on their PDS, it clearly states on page 39/71, that they are a Market Maker.


Any help is appreciated, as are any other recommendations meeting my criteria.
IC Markets recently joined our bundling program, sponsoring CNS VPS's for their traders. I got to know them during that time and they seem to really help their traders. I know they have a class to train new traders and they setup a VPS for each of them. I have found NO red flags at all.

Their servers are in NYC btw.
BarrySDCA Commercial Network Services
  • Post #3
  • Quote
  • Edited 6:34am Mar 24, 2012 6:13am | Edited 6:34am
First of all I have to say I never heard of IC Markets so I can't comment about that.

Let's start with something that I think you should consider when looking for a bröker (I rarely see new people consider this nor did I when I first started out):

Liquidity.

In other words how much liquidity your bröker has (this depends on how many and how big its liquidity providers are). Deep liquidity causes tight spreads, fast fills, no requotes and minimal slippage - there's no such thing as "zero slippage" in a real market/ECN environment, it just depends on how much liquidity there is AND how big your orders are (this is basic market microstructure info).

Then you have other less important factors that influence speed of fills and slippage such as how far are you from the bröker's servers (ping/latency), but this shouldn't matter too much if you are not a hardcore scalper or into HFT.

As for MT4, I personally consider it to be a toy. Don't let MT4 support be your priority in choosing a bröker, because many brökers offering MT4 are silly bucketshops (I don't know a bucketshop that DOESN'T offer MT4) and many top-notch pro-level brökers don't offer MT4. So if you're looking for a good bröker and you really like MT4, then do keep the MT4 thing as a "bonus" and not a prerequisite. If it's charting that you're into, then there are other programs (especially the dedicated ones like Ninjatrader and MultiCharts) that are way superior to MT4. There are even some proprietary ones (such as Dukascopy's JForex) that beat MT4 in charting. If it's the EA's that attract you to MT4 then the same applies, add to that the fact that some brökers provide API access (some provide it for free) which you can use for auto-trading (just code or get someone to code your strategy for you). In fact the overall order-handling performance is better when using an API as you skip the MT4 order-handling system.

Another factor here is how much you are willing to invest.

Having said that here are some suggestions:

InteractiveBrokers:

- $10k min deposit
- True ECN
- Very good liquidity
- Accepts USA/Canadian clients
- American regulation, fund segregation
- FX, Futures, Stocks, etc. (pretty much everything)
- Supports many charting packages (other than its proprietary platform)
- Free API

London Capital Group (the currenex account):

- $50k min deposit (can be negotiable down to $20k last time I checked)
- True ECN
- Very good liquidity
- NFA regulation, fund segregation
- Tier 2 institutional brokerage. I've known someone who had a million deposited with them (no issues whatsoever).
- Only spot FX (obviously, since the Currenex technology/network only specializes in FX)

FastBrokers:

- $2500 min deposit
- True ECN
- Very good liquidity
- NFA regulation, fund segregation
- Not just a bröker but more like an introducing agent that routes your orders to the price/liquidity network/feed that you choose (some pretty nice choices with Currenex, LMAX, etc).
- FX, Futures, CFDs
- Free API

MB Trading:

- $400 min deposit
- ECN
- Good liquidity (not as good as the above 3, spreads are not as good)
- American regulation (don't know if they have fund segregation or not)
- Supports some charting packages (other than its proprietary platform)
- Supports MT4
- FX, Futures, Stocks, Options
- Free API
Note: there's also the UK branch (MB Trading UK) with NFA regulation and higher leverage.

PFGBest:

- $1000 min deposit
- ECN
- Good liquidity
- American regulation, fund segregation, nice serious company
- Supports some charting packages (other than its proprietary platform)
- Supports MT4
- FX, Futures, Options

Dukascopy: (I'm currently testing it)

Note: No US clients but they do take Canadian clients I think
- $5000 min deposit ($100 with Dukascopy EU)
- Swiss regulation (the bröker has a bank status), fund segregation
- Good liquidity, but some slippage issues (their slippage, although not major, never goes in your favor, which raises some questions...)
- Only a proprietary java platform, but it's pretty good. (charting and EA's)
- A free java API
- Only spot FX (that includes spot metals)

Some other brökers that look interesting but I don't know if they take Canadian clients:

- LMAX: UK ECN bröker, FSA regulated, good liquidity, the first centralized spot forex exchange, proprietary platform and supports MultiCharts
- FinFX: Finnish ECN bröker, good liquidity (from Integral), MT4 and PowerTrader support, 100:1 leverage.

Just avoid bucketshops and stick with the reputable and regulated ECN's with the best liquidity you can afford. Find one among them that seems to suit your priorities the most and go for it, otherwise you'll risk wasting more time on this bröker business than the trading itself.

Cheers and good trading to you.
Hi jayjonbeach,

its Angus here from IC Markets.

from your post I will assume you want to use MT4 for an EA? If you like I will send you a demo account for our MT4 platform on the NYC server, the one Barry gave reference to.

You've done your due diligence by going through the PDS which i think is great. I'd like a call to discuss this and give give you information about our liquidity and technology solutions, you can reach me via email at [email protected]

Marv, also happy to talk to you via email or over the phone about our different solutions. Two questions for you though, what do you mean when you call a broker a true ecn or ecn? and what do you call 'good liquidity'? I attached an image from fx inside showing our liquidity on the EURUSD the other night. ignore the circles they were used in a presentation i did.

Good to see you in the forums Barry and thanks for your feedback!

kind regards,

Angus
Attached Image
Hi Angus. You assume correct about the MT4 for an EA, although I recently learned that some EA's will work without MT4, don't think there are very many though.

The truth is I haven't found a good reliable EA as of this date after much searching, so I am not sure how important this requirement is going to be for me now. (I want to make my own at some point in the future)

As for true ECN, I don't want to answer for Marv but please see this link

http://www.100forexbrokers.com/dma-direct-market-access

Unfortunately the website does not allow for easy cut and paste, but I think it does a good job differentiating between the difference between ECN, STP and DMA and the pros and cons of each combo.
Hi jayjonbeach,

according to that page (which had some pretty good information) you wouldn't want to trade through an ECN?

Most brokers will call themselves ECN brokers if they show a raw spread and charge commission. Truth is they are just providing an aggregated price feed showing a best bid/best offer + commission.

IC Markets has two feeds for two different account types. one is from integral which you can see in the image from my last post, that is an aggregated feed (not an ECN). The other is a HotSpot feed which is a true ECN environment where clients can participate in the underlying (also DMA).

Clients who want tight spreads and great liquidity go on Integral, clients who want to do high frequency trading and anything that could potentially annoy the banks will go on HotSpot. HotSpot wont have as tight a spreads as Integral but you can do anything you want.

Again, happy to have a chat via email or over the phone. I can also point you in the direction of some sites to help you find some EAs if you'd like.
Angus,

There should be no difference between "ECN" and "True ECN", I just tend to use the latter description when referring to an ECN that is more on the big liquidity institutional-level side. Sorry for any confusion.

Quoting anguswalker
and what do you call 'good liquidity'?
By 'good liquidity' I mean deep liquidity obtained from a big liquidity source. What some dealers or pseudo-ECN brökers do is for example they match their clients' orders within their internal orderbook with each other, and then they take the other side of any excess volume (orders that are left unfilled) while hedging their exposure against their liquidity provider(s). For the traders, this opens the door to issues like abnormal slippage, problems getting good fills, requotes, and spikes in the spread, especially during news times and high volatility events (some brökers even have protective algorithms that sometimes resort to temporarily disconnecting some traders platforms during such times of high pressure).

These issues are minimal in a true ECN environment where big liquidity is directly available to clients whose orders are simply passed on to that liquidity pool in a quick and anonymous manner, with the bröker only collecting commissions.

That orderbook screenshot (HotSpot's orderbook if memory serves me well) and the offerings you described look interesting by the way, it would be nice to include that information in your website. Could you please tell us what your minimum deposit and order size requirements are? Also what commission do you charge for each account?

Thanks
Hi Marv. Thank you VERY much for your detailed and very helpful answer and recommendations. I will consider each carefully, I have my eye closely on IB and have for awhile, there are some drawbacks but probably the lesser of all the evils and if I have learnt something about Brokers, its there is no perfect one (at least for the majority of people). (fwiw I am going to start with 10-20K)

Thank you for pointing out that it is the largely the liquidly, that will help me satisfy my requirement of - Fast fills, NO requotes and min/no slippage, makes good sense.

Quoting Marv
By 'good liquidity' I mean deep liquidity obtained from a big liquidity source. What some dealers or pseudo-ECN brökers do is for example they match their clients' orders within their internal orderbook with each other, and then they take the other side of any excess volume (orders that are left unfilled) while hedging their exposure against their liquidity provider(s). For the traders, this opens the door to issues like abnormal slippage, problems getting good fills, requotes, and spikes in the spread, especially during news times and high...
This is a HUGE concern for me, let's face it trading is tricky enough without your own Broker taking the other side of your trade, which then obviously gives them a bias on said trade, and of course have way too much power to manipulate such a trade. Its the main reason I will avoid Market Makers, even if a couple of them are good and do not participate in this practice.

Quoting Marv
Just avoid bucketshops and stick with the reputable and regulated ECN's with the best liquidity you can afford. Find one among them that seems to suit your priorities the most and go for it, otherwise you'll risk wasting more time on this bröker business than the trading itself.
You speak the truth there I tell ya, I'm trading in the USA markets (stocks/ETF's) but have been trying to get my Forex and Futures trading going for WAY too long now. Finding the right "GOOD" Broker almost as hard as making good trades, ridiculous!

Thanks again!
Jayjonbeach,

Ive been using IC for the last 18 months and am really happy with the broker.
I will list a few things (mostly good) and a couple of the not-so-good aspects of using IC.

Firstly, by far and away they have been the best broker i have used. I have used 3 for trading (i wont mention the names) so i have not had a massive amount of brokers to compare them to. Nonetheless, i was using a market-maker intially when i first started and ran into alot of problems with that particular broker.
I am an Aussie - so i wanted and Australian based broker for regulation etc.
I wanted an ECN (DMA) broker to get me away from the bucket shops and finally i wanted a choice of platforms to trade from. As i am a relative newbie (2 years) i did not want to tie myself down to one particular software platform within a broker. IC has multiple choices depending on your level of requirement.
I have traded on their ProDeal and MT4 platforms.
The Pro Deal i use for Futures/CFD's, and the MT4 i use for FX.
Seems to work fine - however i rang them the other day and they are migrating their MT4 platform to new servers that will now allow MT4 users to trade CFDs and Futures from that platform.

In terms of user support, I cant be happier. Angus - who has written a couple of responses earlier - has been my main support guy since i joined.
I am only a bit customer with an account $ less than 5K - but he still helps me out with any issues. Those guys are all good and i have not had any issues either transferring money in or out.

I will be using the one platform (MT4) on their new server to trade the FX pairs/Commods/CFDs as i want to use the one for everything - much simpler.

To the bad - not much - just a pet peeve is that their server time is GMT. I really would like a server time aligned with NY Close. But you cant have everything.

FX wise - the costs to trade are fairly low. They have a commission based income on the ECN system. Cant remember how much a round trip is? But it still is a hell of a lot cheaper than the 'fixed' spreads i was getting from my previous broker.

Hope you find this report of some value from an IC Markets customer. I do not have anything to hide and can say that my opinion is an honest one based on 18 months worth of experience with them.
I will be continuing to trade with them this year as well.

Journeyman
Quoting Journeyman
Jayjonbeach,

Ive been using IC for the last 18 months and am really happy with the broker.
I will list a few things (mostly good) and a couple of the not-so-good aspects of using IC.

Firstly, by far and away they have been the best broker i have used. I have used 3 for trading (i wont mention the names) so i have not had a massive amount of brokers to compare them to. Nonetheless, i was using a market-maker intially when i first started and ran into alot of problems with that particular broker.
I am an Aussie - so i wanted and Australian...
Thank you very much Journeyman for your helpful reply.

Good trading to you

Jason
Regarding ICMarkets, I've taken a closer look now and I have to say I'd be very careful choosing this bröker.

- First of all, it's not known. I have never heard of it before from any trader I know.

- Second, too many of the reviews I could find of it are way too happy and satisfied. Some are outright too good to be true and come from people with no long posting history, and the only criticism they might include is plain silly and seems like merely an attempt to seem unbiased.

- Third, don't trust a bröker that claims to be an ECN and/or offer access to things like HotSpot, Currenex, Integral, etc. all while offering only MT4 as a platform (yes, they told me they only offer MT4 for forex trading. You know, that famous retail toy made by a Russian company who is registered in Cyprus and easily provides its so called platform to all bucketshops around the world).

- Fourth, I don't get a good feeling from their website. (feel free to dismiss this reason though)

- Fifth, look at this: "eToro Asia Pacific has joined forces with International Capital Markets Pty Ltd to present its clients with unique online trading capabilities." Partnership with eToro. One of the crappiest forex BUCKETSHOPS you'll find. Seriously? After reading this I decided not to bother looking for more info on this bröker. I've seen enough to make my opinion.

While I have no hard "proof" of anything as I haven't used this IC Markets (and never will), I just have this feeling that I wouldn't trust it and I'm usually right.
Hi Marv,

you are right to treat all forex brokers with a degree of skepticism, however I don't think it is fair to criticise a company that you have not traded with. Yes we have many positive reviews and feedback on the web, this includes Barry Bahrami from CNS (above), I don't think this constitutes a reason to dismiss a broker.

We do offer Integral and HotSpot connectivity to our clients, I have not mentioned Currenex so I'm not sure where you heard this. We use MT4 as it is the most popular trading platform in the world, to do otherwise would limit our target market significantly.

We run the eToro asia pacific operations from our IC Markets office here in Sydney, this is sales and marketing. eToro and IC Markets are two different entities with completely different infrastructure. The fact that we have partnered with one of the most innovative forex brokers globally before they were as established as they are now, says something about the people driving this company, they're smart..

Do you mind if I ask for your criteria for evaluating a broker if it doesn't involve trading live?

Personally I would look for: ownership of company, regulation, counterparties to evaluate countrparty risk, spreads, commissions, platform, execution speeds, platform up-time. since you have not addressed these I would be happy to speak to you over the phone to give you more information about the company.

if you would see our spreads you can do so using the link below.

http://www.fxintel.com/live/

kind regards,

Angus
  • Post #13
  • Quote
  • Edited 2:26am Apr 16, 2012 2:15am | Edited 2:26am
Quoting anguswalker
however I don't think it is fair to criticise a company that you have not traded with.
I disagree. With enough experience with different kinds of brökers, how they look and act, etc. you no longer have to actually trade to tell if a company meets a certain set of standards. Sometimes a company does not inspire enough confidence for testing via live trading to begin with.

Quoting anguswalker
Yes we have many positive reviews and feedback on the web, this includes Barry Bahrami from CNS (above), I don't think this constitutes a reason to dismiss a broker.
When the reviews get too positive, yes it does.

And Barry's review above is not to be taken into consideration for reasons that I'll leave to the reader's commonsense to figure out.

Quoting anguswalker
We do offer Integral and HotSpot connectivity to our clients, I have not mentioned Currenex so I'm not sure where you heard this.
I know that. I was speaking in general.

Quoting anguswalker
We use MT4 as it is the most popular trading platform in the world, to do otherwise would limit our target market significantly.
First of all, it's the most popular platform in the RETAIL forex world (which by the way is full of bucketshops and a majority of traders that don't know what they're doing).

Second, it's not the fact that you offer MT4. It's the fact that you offer ONLY that retail toy while claiming to provide two institutional-level liquidity sources (Hotspot and Integral). That's a contradiction right there.

If you look at the real companies giving direct access to the real Hotspot/Integral/Currenex/etc. you'll notice that either they don't offer MT4 or they offer it as a secondary platform. That is not a coincidence.

Quoting anguswalker
We run the eToro asia pacific operations from our IC Markets office here in Sydney, this is sales and marketing. eToro and IC Markets are two different entities with completely different infrastructure. The fact that we have partnered with one of the most innovative forex brokers globally before they were as established as they are now, says something about the people driving this company, they're smart..
Very smart indeed. Pure marketing genius.

That's probably why I never heard of IC Markets before.

Quoting anguswalker
Do you mind if I ask for your criteria for evaluating a broker if it doesn't involve trading live?
Read my posts in this thread. You'll get an idea.

Quoting anguswalker
Personally I would look for: ownership of company, regulation, counterparties to evaluate countrparty risk, spreads, commissions, platform, execution speeds, platform up-time. since you have not addressed these I would be happy to speak to you over the phone to give you more information about the company.

if you would see our spreads you can do so using the link below.

http://www.fxintel.com/live/
That's all nice. Unless the bröker is not as big and transparent as it claims. Then none of that matters.

By the way, this is just my honest opinion based on my own personal commonsense. It can definitely be wrong, but I'd say very possibly not. I know other experienced traders might feel the same way. Whether you want to criticize my criticism, ignore it, or simply take it as constructive feedback and work on improving your service is up to you.
Hi Marv,

I appreciate your comments but would prefer it if you based any feedback regarding IC Markets on your own personal experience with the company.

We work hard to give clients a great product and excellent service, to say otherwise based on a hunch and nothing material is unprofessional.

We can offer the HotSpot and FXInside GUI's to clients, however most prefer MT4. If you would like to discuss this in more detail you can contact myself on the number or email below.

[email protected]
+61 2 8014 4280

kind regards,

Angus
Quoting anguswalker
We work hard to give clients a great product and excellent service, to say otherwise based on a hunch and nothing material is unprofessional.
I thought you liked unprofessional traders. After all you take pride in partnership with an unprofessional company that targets entirely unprofessional "traders". You also fake online reviews to attract similarly unprofessional retail clients who prefer an unprofessional platform designed for dealing-desks not real ECN's. Obviously you two have something in common hence the happy partnership.

Quoting anguswalker
We can offer the HotSpot and FXInside GUI's to clients, however most prefer MT4. If you would like to discuss this in more detail you can contact myself on the number or email below.

[email protected]
+61 2 8014 4280

kind regards,

Angus
Sorry, I have now decided to call it quits with this whole trading thing because apparently I am unprofessional.

Good day
Quoting Marv
Regarding ICMarkets, I've taken a closer look now and I have to say I'd be very careful choosing this bröker.

- First of all, it's not known. I have never heard of it before from any trader I know.

- Second, too many of the reviews I could find of it are way too happy and satisfied. Some are outright too good to be true and come from people with no long posting history, and the only criticism they might include is plain silly and seems like merely an attempt to seem unbiased.

- Third, don't trust a bröker that claims to be an ECN and/or offer...
As one of those "too happy and satisfied" reviewers, I feel almost personally offended by your post.

Why the lack of any negative feedback doesn't make you stop for a second and think? Any bucketshop that emerges somewhere in Papua New Guinea (no offense to this wonderful country) gets within a short time an array of negative comments, as there are always enough morons to trade with any broker. I haven't seen a single significant negative comment regarding ICM.

To voice such a strong opinion without having had any personal experience is simply not serious. You can raise questions, concerns, etc - but to be so sure?

I just can say that the more I use ICM, the more I like the experience.
* The commission has now went down to a flat .7 pip on all instruments.
* The spreads became tighter, now, on average, about .3 on EU (and .1 much of the time), .4 on UJ, 1.2 on gold, 1.1 on EJ, 1.5 on AUDCAD (never considered trading this pai before ICM).
* The execution is lightening fast (20-30 ms).
* I've experienced some slippage, within normal bounds, mostly it was in my favor.
* The feed is very accurate (at least as far as my trading method is concerned). The price moves in this peculiar "nervous" way, if you know what I mean, you know it's not smoothed or manipulated in any way.
* The customer service has been very good so far, I had a couple of concerns that were taken care of instantaneously.
* The firm is Aus regulated - which provides for some minimal security.

This is my fifth broker so far - and it's way beyond compare so far. There is no gain without risk - and one can risk $1000 for the prospect of finding a truly good broker.

And no, I do not (unfortunately) receive any sallary from ICM.
sans peur et sans reproche
I was expecting another super happy client to suddenly appear right when Angus has nothing left to say.

Quoting ilanr
As one of those "too happy and satisfied" reviewers, I feel almost personally offended by your post.
You feel "almost personally offended" just because of some opinion about a bröker? Wow.

Quoting ilanr
I haven't seen a single significant negative comment regarding ICM.
I have seen some, and somehow they're the only ones that sounded "real" and outside of the style and pattern of the super happy comments.

There is one particular incident in another forum regarding this bröker that raises serious doubts about its integrity. Luckily some long-term members there could see the games the bröker is playing using a fake poster (who then just ran away from the conversation).

Quoting ilanr
To voice such a strong opinion without having had any personal experience is simply not serious. You can raise questions, concerns, etc - but to be so sure?
I never said I was "sure", quite the opposite and you saw it.

Again, it's funny how "shocked" with my opinion you're trying to seem.

Quoting ilanr
* The commission has now went down to a flat .7 pip on all instruments.
Boy that's one high commission rate. And it used to be higher?

Clearly you haven't traded with a real ECN company if you think that commission is good.

Quoting ilanr
* The spreads became tighter, now, on average, about .3 on EU (and .1 much of the time), .4 on UJ, 1.2 on gold, 1.1 on EJ, 1.5 on AUDCAD (never considered trading this pai before ICM).
* The execution is lightening fast (20-30 ms).
* I've experienced some slippage, within normal bounds, mostly it was in my favor.
* The feed is very accurate (at least as far as my trading method is concerned). The price moves in this peculiar "nervous" way, if you know what I mean, you know it's not smoothed or manipulated in any way.
* The customer service...
Don't care about any of this. Like I said, those things don't matter anymore when the bröker has clear signs of integrity issues. (with that commission I wouldn't care about it anyway)

Keep 'em coming IC Markets.
Marv, you made my day! Until now, only women used to call me "unreal" ("too good to be true", that is), it's the first time that a guy does that (I guess you are a guy by the amount of aggression you seem to have in your system).

Now, to be serious. I really don't care if you personally think I'm real or not, but for the sake of those who happen to read this: I'm on these forums for over 5 years, I don't post much, but it's not too difficult to look at my posting history and see, about which brokers and in which tones (positive as negative) I have written in the past.

And now back to you, Marv. I hope for you that your judgment of reality is better and your self-doubt is higher in your trading than in your posts here.
sans peur et sans reproche
Blah blah blah... Trying to avoid the topic by making all of this about "me" is not going to distract anyone from the serious question marks surrounding this bröker's integrity, so nice try.

Angus, IC Markets' only customer support agent, possibly the company's owner (in the very possible case that this is a one man show), eToro's proud partner, and the real author of countless strangely similar-looking super happy reviews praising his own barely known bröker, the way you have reacted to my justified doubts has only served to further justify them.

Keep up the good work and feel free to send somebody else you know to do the dirty work for you (i.e. personally attack me) or even do it yourself via yet another fake name.
Quoting Marv
Trying to avoid the topic by making all of this about "me"
You live in a seriously troubled world, Marv, and it surfaces in your posts.

Quoting Marv
Angus, IC Markets' only customer support agent
This exemplifies the validity of your claims. How can you know this if you never were an ICM client?

Now for those who are not "Marv", whoever he is [using "Marv"'s paranoia, I'd think he works for an ICM competitor, why not?]: Angus is not the only customer support agent with whom I dealt at ICM.
sans peur et sans reproche
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