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Anyone trading with a Prop firm 1 reply

prop firm new model - my trading journey 869 replies

So I accepted a Prop Trading job in South Beach Miami 43 replies

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Although I don't like FTMO's feed in general, I will only fault them for things that are their fault.
Quoting Fagin
{quote} Well you need to put some context to your post. Is this only FTMO or the same with others?
OK in order of appearance: IC MARKETS, XM, PEPPERSTONE:
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I used to be indecisive but now I'm not so sure...
Quoting Filipo1
{quote} OK in order of appearance: IC MARKETS, XM, PEPPERSTONE: {image} {image} {image}

Feed doesn't show spread bro... You need tick data.
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Feed doesn't show spread bro... You need tick data.
The amplitude is not enough for you?
I used to be indecisive but now I'm not so sure...
Quoting Filipo1
{quote}The amplitude is not enough for you?

Sorry, no. All of those charts show different price action and bars. Why is it ok for Pepperstone and IC to have different bars but not FTMO? XM I would expect to be very different cos that broker is a joke but comparing the two big boys in your charts even their ticks are wildly different.
FTMO operate a tick stuffed smoothed feed, so it usually shows best price on chart but you get micro slippage on entry. On limit if the price was hit you should have been in, if your order flashed yellow then that is the only proof it didn't get filled properly/price was in your limit. If order didn't flash yellow, then price wasnt there.
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Sorry, no. All of those charts show different price action and bars. Why is it ok for Pepperstone and IC to have different bars but not FTMO? XM I would expect to be very different cos that broker is a joke but comparing the two big boys in your charts even their ticks are wildly different. FTMO operate a tick stuffed smoothed feed, so it usually shows best price on chart but you get micro slippage on entry. On limit if the price was hit you should have been in, if your order flashed yellow then that is the only proof it didn't get filled...
I let you check again the chart on post #6,096 and think it again, sorry don’t have time to argue.
I used to be indecisive but now I'm not so sure...
start building those USD positions
Quoting Filipo1
{quote} I let you check again the chart on post #6,096 and think it again, sorry don’t have time to argue.

I am sorry that I didn't say what you wanted to hear.
Passed phase 1 of my new Boot Camp account in 48 hours.

It's so nice not to have to email them to alert them of my trading prowess for phase 2. You get instant account creation for phase 1 upon payment. After completing phase 1 you get a congratulatory email from them within an hour or two then they will top up your account to 50K for phase 2 within 24 hours.

It shows two things:

1) I'm a trading stud
2) 1:10 leverage is more than enough

See self-congratulatory chart below.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 5ers.png Size: 205 KB


As an aside, I realize the small drawdown and low payout percentage is not very appealing to most but imagine if you lived in a country where the standard of living is a lot lower than what you are used to. Imagine living in a country where the average monthly wage is $1000 a month, or even less. To that person, this program could be life-changing. All they have to do is save up 50 Euros then they have one full year to make 24% to earn the 100K account. If they can save up 250 Euros in that year they can have 4K in drawdown on their 100K account. If they can earn 4% a month (just picking a conservative number) that would translate to $2000 a month in income (50% profit rate). Not bad if you only make $1000 a month wages.
"Pride always comes before destruction...." -Proverbs 16:18
Quoting Expo33
Passed phase 1 of my new Boot Camp account in 48 hours. It's so nice not to have to email them to alert them of my trading prowess for phase 2. You get instant account creation for phase 1 upon payment. After completing phase 1 you get a congratulatory email from them within an hour or two then they will top up your account to 50K for phase 2 within 24 hours. It shows two things: 1) I'm a trading stud 2)...
Just for clarity on your statement and I promise I am not trying to be an arse... but for those that might read this and the Queen's English is not their 1st language:

You say "All they have to do is save up 50 Euros then they have one full year to make 24% to earn the 100K account. "

So you only need 50 euros and make 24% of that 50 Eu i.e. only 12 Euros and they'll give me a 100k account?
Quoting Fagin
So you only need 50 euros and make 24% of that 50 Eu i.e. only 12 Euros and they'll give me a 100k account?
-Doubt it. Likely, you are required to flip an account multiple times without breaking draw-down rules. Then, you are likely given an account that is not 100K, but really 4K or similar.

Some people do not have 1K to invest in these programs, though. And I get that. So, to each their own.
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Doubt it. Likely, you are required to flip an account multiple times without breaking draw-down rules. Then, you are likely given an account that is not 100K, but really 4K or similar. Some people do not have 1K to invest in these programs, though. And I get that. So, to each their own.
And 24% compounded return over 12 months puts you in stellar trader territory… but not for $50… at least I doubt it.

I do hope someone can make it work for them and if it’s a genuine opportunity I’m rooting for them.
Quoting Expo33
Passed phase 1 of my new Boot Camp account in 48 hours. It's so nice not to have to email them to alert them of my trading prowess for phase 2. You get instant account creation for phase 1 upon payment. After completing phase 1 you get a congratulatory email from them within an hour or two then they will top up your account to 50K for phase 2 within 24 hours. It shows two things: 1) I'm a trading stud 2)...

Will you marry me please expo.
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Will you marry me please expo.
Sure, if you're a hot gold-digging Asian college girl who likes creepy older bald men.
"Pride always comes before destruction...." -Proverbs 16:18
Quoting Fagin
{quote} Just for clarity on your statement and I promise I am not trying to be an arse... but for those that might read this and the Queen's English is not their 1st language: You say "All they have to do is save up 50 Euros then they have one full year to make 24% to earn the 100K account. " So you only need 50 euros and make 24% of that 50 Eu i.e. only 12 Euros and they'll give me a 100k account?
I'm not trying to be a sarcastic arse so let's pretend this is like the MFF discord channel where no one is capable of going to the website to read about the program. So out of the goodness of my heart, I'll spoon-feed it to you.

You sign up for the Boot Camp which cost 50 Euros. That is your ONLY cost.

Now your objective is to pass all three phases.

Phase 1: You are provided with a 25K demo account. You must earn 8% (i.e increase the account to 27K) with an allowable drawdown of 5%. Max stop loss for any position is 1%, trading leverage of 1:10. Once you reach your 8% profit target you have successfully completed phase 1 and move to phase 2.

Phase 2: EXACTLY the same as phase 1. The only difference is they start you at 50K. Still, it's the same game. You must increase the 50K by 8% (i.e. increase the account to 54K). If you do then you have passed phase 2 and go to phase 3

Phase 3: EXACTLY the same as phases 1 and 2. The only difference is they start you at 75K. Still, it's the same game. You must increase the 75K by 8% (i.e. increase the account to 81K).

NOW, if you can complete ALL 3 phases in one year without violating the drawdown rules THEN you become a portfolio manager and are entitled to a 100K account where you get the chance to earn real money.

HOWEVER, you must pay $250 Euros to get that 100K account.

So the idea is that you only have to risk 50 Euros upfront. This way the trader only has to risk 50 Euros to see if they can pass all 3 phases. If they can do that then they are guaranteed the 100K account by paying 250 Euros. This is why I said it's a nice option for anyone who doesn't want to risk 500 Euros upfront which is the average cost for most 2 step evaluations.

The 100K portfolio manager account has an allowable drawdown of only 4% with 5% needed to scale up. Details are in the chart below. I hope I have successfully regurgitated what is plainly on the 5ers website. After all, googling "5ers boot camp" and reading would have been too much trouble I'm sure.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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CONCLUSION

Does 4% drawdown for the 100K Pm account suck? I guess so
Does the 50/50 payout ratio suck? I guess so
Does only 1:10 leverage suck? I guess so
Does Meta5 platform suck? I guess so

BUT, the successful trader now only needs to earn 1% on their new 100K account to get back $500 and enjoy a freeroll that could change their life. And all for an initial risk of 50 Euros. Seems it would be very appealing to anyone living in a poorer country or for anyone that doesn't have extra disposable income to try and go through the traditional 2 step evaluation route.
"Pride always comes before destruction...." -Proverbs 16:18
CONCLUSION

Does 4% drawdown for the 100K Pm account suck? I guess so
Does the 50/50 payout ratio suck? I guess so
Does only 1:10 leverage suck? I guess so
Does Meta5 platform suck? I guess so
Allergic to bullshitters, never argue with fools
GT Official Signals All Time Pips: -35,743
Quoting Expo33
{quote} I'm not trying to be a sarcastic arse so let's pretend this is like the MFF discord channel where no one is capable of going to the website to read about the program. So out of the goodness of my heart, I'll spoon-feed it to you. You sign up for the Boot Camp which cost 50 Euros. That is your ONLY cost. Now your objective is to pass all three phases. Phase 1: You are provided with a 25K demo account. You must earn 8% (i.e increase the account to 27K) with an allowable drawdown of 5%. Max stop loss for any position is 1%, trading leverage...
Having looked at the site several times I have developed this mysterious affliction of "glaze over", despite my best efforts I cannot understand their programme, thanks to your spoon feeding (of which I am very grateful) and simple explanation I am struggling even more to understand why anyone would put themselves through this?

So for $50 you get to expend your physical and emotional energy, the probability of succeeding with a max stop loss of 1%, 4% MAX loss and a 1% premium target over loss must be zero to get to the 100k? Have 5ers provided stats on success rates for this?

And then you have to stump up another $250? For real? Who is dumb enough to do this?

Your risk is now $300 with very tilted trading conditions for such a small account, so I'm also guessing you only get paid out when you get to 5%, which would take months if you were trading this with the correct money management to suit the risk profile?

There is simply no comparison to FTMO and MFF challenges, although FTMO are too expensive and the time period without extension drops it off the list for now.

For $300 you have a 50k account within 60 days and it pays 80%, now that sounds more like a life changing opportunity for someone who can trade, or more sensibly buy the 10k accounts and reinvest the fee in each new one. The trading conditions just don't compare to 5ers which is like 200% more challenging?

Just curious since you are promoting 5ers, have you passed this or know anyone that has?
Quoting Expo33
{quote} I'm not trying to be a sarcastic arse so let's pretend this is like the MFF discord channel where no one is capable of going to the website to read about the program. So out of the goodness of my heart, I'll spoon-feed it to you. You sign up for the Boot Camp which cost 50 Euros. That is your ONLY cost. Now your objective is to pass all three phases. Phase 1: You are provided with a 25K demo account. You must earn 8% (i.e increase the account to 27K) with an allowable drawdown of 5%. Max stop loss for any position is 1%, trading leverage...
Hi Expo, I have got to weigh in here to put this in perspective for everyone. You are literally attempting the toughest challenge for the least reward in the entire industry. I know it's only $58 (at first) and I agree not everyone has the disposable income for the others. However, it truly is $348, as this is what you will pay them before you ever earn a dime.
These models are all about profit target vs DD allowed ( for me anyway) as this is how I model my risk per trade. So earning 8% with 5% DD, if we plug that into an MFF eval with 12% DD, it would be like earning 19.2% with MFF. Now you must do this 3 times, so 57.6% you would have made with MFF with same target to DD ratio. Since you only need 13% (8 and5) to get to live, the remaining 44.6% would have been earned on a live account.
For $299($49 less than 5%ers) you get 50K with MFF, so before you even go live with 5%ers, you would have earned $22,300 with MFF, call it an average split of 80%, you would have been paid $17,840 from MFF before you even have your live account with 5%ers.
Even going the under $100 route, for $84, you get 10K with MFF, which would still result in you getting PAID $3,568 before getting the live 5%ers account, then reinvest into larger challenges. You can pass both stages and earn 6.2% in profit split before passing stage 1 with the 5%ers.
The 5%ers is like that product with the fancy packaging but the actual product inside sucks.
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Hi Expo, I have got to weigh in here to put this in perspective for everyone. You are literally attempting the toughest challenge for the least reward in the entire industry. I know it's only $58 (at first) and I agree not everyone has the disposable income for the others. However, it truly is $348, as this is what you will pay them before you ever earn a dime. These models are all about profit target vs DD allowed ( for me anyway) as this is how I model my risk per trade. So earning 8% with 5% DD, if we plug that into an MFF eval with 12%...
Good post, far better than my muddled effort to get some clarity.
Quoting Fagin
{quote} Good post, far better than my muddled effort to get some clarity.
Yes, accounting and statistic major (years ago, of course), I love running the numbers on these firms.
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